The Unusual Powers idea threads

Thailand is set to play a crucial role in the South East Asian as a major empire. But it will nor be one of the focuses. As for the Indian empire I could get that to work but the one problem is that I need Portugal to expand in India to make the South East Asian POD work and for it to be a major power. Is their a way for Vijayanagara to develop while still having a strong Portugal in the region
 
Was there some kind of cultural hindrance to this, or poor military planning?

Not really cultural hindrance insofar as I can perceive. It just tended to be a prestige thing- my kingdom has fancier artillery than your kingdom. Also, the advantages of artillery were more immediately obvious for their benefit in sieges and so were adopted first with the benefits of infantry reforms taking longer to penetrate.

By the late 18th C some Indian states had raised specific companies of disciplined infantry trained to European standards by Portuguese and French officers. At this point such units were the exception and tended to be elite household troops and suchlike but if the process had gone on uninterrupted you'd probably have seen uniformly European standard troops in cavalry, infantry and artillery by the 19th C across India. In fact this was very clearly the case with the Khalsa, the Sikh Army which by the 1830s was as well trained and equipped as it's EIC foes (though let down by infighting and factionalism). However for most of the rest of the Indian states the process was aborted by defeats at the hands of or submission to the EIC decades earlier.
 

Nikephoros

Banned
However for most of the rest of the Indian states the process was aborted by defeats at the hands of or submission to the EIC decades earlier.

Makes sense. As many of those states were vassals of the EIC, I don't think they'd wanna bring down the EIC on them. Training a viable infantry force that is a match/near match for the British infantry was bound to piss off the British establishment
 

Susano

Banned
Not really cultural hindrance insofar as I can perceive. It just tended to be a prestige thing- my kingdom has fancier artillery than your kingdom.
Its not only an Indian thing, either. Basically, that were the way rifles and other gunpowder applications were developed in Europe, too - at the beginning those were pure prestige units as well.
 
Something in India could be very interesting. We don't see that very often.
It always seems to be all or nothing in AH.
If we're to have a strong India then we cripple Europe and India is a Europe replacement. If we have some muslim powers its at the expense of the christians, Chinese Americas=Europe stuck in the dark ages.
It could be interesting to have a Indian nation as a bit of a competitor of the Europeans on the international stage. Not their better. A equal competitor.
 
Someone said this before, and I don't know if you're considering it, but how about Korea?

You can look at my timeline for some ideas (although I do agree that it is a bit ridiculous, it's quite plausible if you consider all of the intricacies), but if Goguryeo, under Gwanggaeto, had managed to exploit the Chinese when they were as divided as they could be, expect for probably the Warring States Period, then I'm pretty sure that at the least, you could see Korea uniting East Asia for a while, even possibly eliminating Japan as a country, and the history of the region would be drastically different.

In order to do this, though, you'll need a POD of late 300's to early 400's. The next plausible time that Korea would have become more powerful than OTL would be around 1400-1600, when the Ming and the Qing struggled to gain control of China. However, Korea would only have influence over southern Manchuria, and I'm not sure if their claims would hold out if Japan managed to dominate them in the same way as OTL.

Just throwing some ideas out there.
 
I once tried a TL where Napoleon II was more Healthy, and escaped Austria to end up in the Greek Army and then King of Greece.
 
Its not only an Indian thing, either. Basically, that were the way rifles and other gunpowder applications were developed in Europe, too - at the beginning those were pure prestige units as well.

Yup- that's what I meant. Basically the trouble the Indians had was that by the late 18th C South Indian armies which had just started incorporating disciplined musket infantry into their armies were facing European armies which weren't more high tech but at a higher level of military theory. I used the Sikhs as an example of how, in fifty years, military science developed so quickly in the remaining unsubdued major Indian states that the EIC was facing an army fully it's equal. Of course by that time the Sikh Empire was the only remaining unsubdued major state.

This is why I think a surviving Vijayanagara has potential- if it can hold off attacks form the North, it's size, wealth and exposure to European trade across the Arabian Sea might give it a chance to adopt and develop effective gunpowder infantry.
 
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Yup- that's what I meant. Basically the trouble the Indians had was that by the late 18th C South Indian armies which had just started incorporating disciplined musket infantry into their armies were facing European armies which weren't more high tech but at a higher level of military theory. I used the Sikhs as an example of how, in fifty years, military science developed so quickly in the remaining unsubdued major Indian states that the EIC was facing an army fully it's equal. Of course by that time the Sikh Empire was the only remaining unsubdued major state.

This is why I think a surviving Vijayanagara has potential- if it can hold off attacks form the North, it's size, wealth and exposure to European trade across the Arabian Sea might give it a chance to adopt and develop effective gunpowder infantry.
I see what you mean. Is there a POD that works after the foundation of the Goa colony (roughly 1610)
 
I see what you mean. Is there a POD that works after the foundation of the Goa colony (roughly 1610)
Simple: The Portuguese continue to be satisfied with indirect power in India, and limit direct control to Goa and surroundings. Southern India (pardon, but I can't spell V. without reference) benefits from Portugal's "indirect power" policy, and maintains an up-to-date army (and pro-Portuguese trade policy).

It's not likely that Portugal would directly conquer and rule bits of India anyways-- most of British India was ruled by native princes who were simply beholden to London. I don't see why it would be different with Portugal.
 
I back from my brief trip to the cottage with my family. I have finished the the post and am editing it now. So expect a update in the near future
 
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