The United States After Sucessionist Victory

Delta Force

Banned
I am creating a timeline for nation sim game on another site, and I was wondering if you could offer input on some timeline aspects I plan to include in the game. The point of divergence is that Albert Sidney Johnston and his army side with the Confederacy during the Civil War, with Oregon and California succeeding from the Union. I am looking for general input, but I also have a few specific things I am looking for input on:

1. Constitutionally, the United States cannot give a state away without is approval, so would it be reasonable to expect Maryland to vote to join the Confederacy if it were to make a push into Union territory (through a legislature picked through rigged or proper elections, or a referendum)?

2. What would the Confederacy do with the former District of Columbia (assuming Maryland joins it and Congress votes to cede it)? Would the Confederacy relocate its capital there, or would it remain in Richmond? Also, what would happen to the Washington Navy Yard in the years after Confederate victory? Would it help Confederate industrialization and sell armaments for export, or was it not that significant during the Civil War period?

3. Would secession be legal or at least viewed as an option in the United States after the war? It was only explicitly made illegal after the Civil War, but there are obvious political reasons for that decision. If secessionists win freedom, would that make it more of an option?

4. Someone on the other board I am working on this at suggested that the Midwest may split from the United States around the early 1900s during the fight between those in favor of silver and those in favor of gold.

5. How much would the secession of Oregon and California, the switching of Albert Sidney Johnston and his forces, and the capture of the Comstok Lode impact the Union war effort? It would obviously help the Confederacy in the Southwest, but that was never a major war theater.

6. How would relations between the United States and the secessionist governments be by 1950 (game start)? How do the new countries evolve economically, politically, and socially? Might the country reunify?

Thanks for any input you can provide into this timeline. I know it is not often that someone asks about such long term impacts.

Okay, I have a possible map for the United States in 1950. The point of divergence is that Albert Sidney Johnston and his army side with the Confederacy during the Civil War, with California and Oregon succeeding and opening a much larger Western Front. He was considered the best Confederate general before Robert E. Lee emerged, so he could cause a lot of havoc in the West. The map is based on 1861 borders, which is why the states look different and why Virginia has West Virginia (in this timeline Virginia reclaims West Virginia and it is just a historical footnote).

UnitedStates.png


Republic of Tejas (Yellow)

Consists of Texas and Oklahoma, which succeeded from the Confederacy after the discovery of oil in their states. Texas has always had an independent strain, and the discovery of vast oil fields and the good climate led to Texas becoming a major destination for immigration. The Native Americans of Oklahoma were also growing increasingly wealthy from oil projects and had a similar sentiment in favor of secession. Arizona and New Mexico joined Texas and New Mexico shortly afterwards because they were cut off from the rest of the Confederacy and had similar economic differences with the remainder of the Confederacy, being mining based economies.

As of 1950, the Port of Galveston handles the largest value of cargo in the world, exporting hundreds of thousands of barrels of oil a day. Tejas has a production of 1.3 million barrels of oil a day, making it one of the largest oil producers in the world. In a great irony, Tejas has better relations with the United States than the Confederacy, supplying most of America's petrochemical needs. There are talks between Tejas and the United States regarding the construction of a pipeline connecting the oil fields of Texas and Oklahoma with American industrial centers. However, the most efficient path must pass through the Confederacy, which is loath to help supply oil to their rival.

Republic of Pacifica (Green)

A second country established during the 1860s secession crisis, when Albert Sidney Johnston's armies sided with the Confederacy. After Union forces were mobilized against the Confederacy, Pacifica joined with the Confederacy in the war and quickly seized the Comstock Lode. Together with its West Coast ports, Pacifica played a major role in the secessionist war effort. After the war Nevada was ceded to it by the United States.

As of 1950, Pacifica currently has tensions with Tejas regarding the proposed construction of a hydroelectric dam at Glen Canyon, which may divert water away from Pacifica's own irrigation projects.

The Confederate States of America (Red)

Although the Confederacy won its independence during the Civil War with the United States, the Confederate economy has remained heavily centered around agriculture and related industries. Industrialization has been hampered by lack of natural resources and the reliance on slavery well into the 1890s, an economically obsolete and morally corrupt institution. Norfolk, Baltimore, and the former District of Columbia are among the most industrialized areas of the Confederacy.

The United States of America (Blue)

After its defeat in the Civil War, which saw the loss of Nevada and Maryland, the United States looked inwards. Secession is a constant threat to the stability of the country, with one state or another threatening to leave the Union every decade or so. The United States has not lost any states to secession since the end of the Civil War, but its legalization by the Supreme Court in Texas v. White has remained a constant danger to the unity of the nation.
 
There's no way California could assert its independence that early. Far too lowly populated and dependent on the East.
 
California doesn't have enough people to secede, it has only recently become a major power in the country.

Why would Texas secede. The Confederacy is not allowed to interfere in their affairs, and with the oil money they will be a major force in the National government.

Birmingham is going to be heavily industrialized.

Missouri was not going to secede, and Maryland was unlikely to. Kentucky would have barely swung that way.

The United States will still be more powerful. They will still have large apnumbers of immigrants coming in and that won't just disappear. They also have the most industry. Expect an attempt to retake the South during this TLs version of WWI at the latest.
 

Delta Force

Banned
In that case, what kind of impact would General Johnston and his army have on the outcome of the Civil War and on the political process in Oregon and California? Would he essentially just go move out East to help the Confederacy in the Southwest (obviously he would later on of course either way)?
 
Johnston's has a tiny standing force in a state where 90% of the vote went for anti-secessionist candidates Lincoln, Douglas or Bell in 1860 so it is not likely he can take California and less so for Oregon.
 
In that case, what kind of impact would General Johnston and his army have on the outcome of the Civil War and on the political process in Oregon and California? Would he essentially just go move out East to help the Confederacy in the Southwest (obviously he would later on of course either way)?

Very little in the sense of the USA crushing the Confederacy, quite a bit in shredding the invincible Sidney Johnston Marty Tzu myth before it fairly gets started. Which may actually in a perverse irony help A.S. Johnston if he manages to make it to CS territory proper.
 

Delta Force

Banned
Since this is a minor PoD as far as the timeline I am working on is concerned (at least not one of the primary PoDs), does anyone know of any good timelines for the Confederacy and America after the Civil War? I am not so concerned about timelines dealing with the victory itself, more about likely outcomes at least a few decades out.
 
I don't know if there's that great of a chance of California ever breaking off. I don't think it could really ever set out on its own...
 
He's just messin' with you. The proper spelling is "secession", not "succession". The former suggests a breakaway revolt, while the latter suggests a conflict in who assumes power in the aftermath of a ruler's death.
 

Delta Force

Banned
He's just messin' with you. The proper spelling is "secession", not "succession". The former suggests a breakaway revolt, while the latter suggests a conflict in who assumes power in the aftermath of a ruler's death.

Just noticed the mistake in the title right now. I used the right word everywhere else. :p
 
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