The Union Forever: A TL

The technates could get an ally of convenience.

Biggest problem is that there really isn't any. Neither the Turin Pact, the AES, the OMD, or the Turkic league have anything in common with the others.

I mean, India is a choice, but India probably just has a bone to pick with everyone and 'really' doesn't want to fall further into the Technate's sphere, especially with Bengal and Assam both being part.

The only one that really is remote enough from China that would want to associate with the Technate is the A3, although I bet they'll happily try to create incidents along the African periphery to tie down the other alliances.
 
I like the sounds of the PTO. A united from against teh technatics is needed.

Hrm. That basically is the every single nation east of Persia that is in Asia that is not a Technocrat state, except India and Russia. ...Which both hate China.

Yeah. Definitely feels like something is going to happen.

Honestly IMO major wars will keep happening till someone lights the bomb in anger at least once. With this not being the rush A-bomb program of WWII OTL with more nations than OTL having nukes and most of the major players having thermonculear weapons its going to be ugly when this happens.

Either war, or thawing. The Technates might understand they can't win, and so play the nice cards.

Thanks for the comments. A few points..

1) PTO membership was offered to every nation touching the Pacific that wasn't a technocracy or Russia. Russia being left out because it was viewed as to unpredictable. Rowland believes the PTO will help ensure peace. Others view it as a provocation. We will have to wait to the next update to see which companies end of ratifying it.

2) While nuclear weapons have not been used in anger their devastating effects are not unknown. Nuclear testing, especially German tests in Cameroon, showed their capabilities and what radiation can do to the environment. I'm sure in the early years of the Atomic age some viewed them simply as big bombs but that isn't the case anymore. You could even argue that because they have never been used, the taboo against them is even greater than OTL.
 
Rowland believes the PTO will help ensure peace. Others view it as a provocation.
Probably because the US views the Technocratic Union as a threat to world peace as a whole.

And unfortunately, due to the nuclear taboo not existing in TUF, I feel like the Second Great War ITTL is going to combine the Sino-Japanese War, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Desert Storm and the Yugoslav Wars into one, great messy war.
 
Technaets are now really isolated by their neighbors. They are surely very desperate now. Have technates any friendly nations beside some authotarian African nations?

The technates could get an ally of convenience.

Biggest problem is that there really isn't any. Neither the Turin Pact, the AES, the OMD, or the Turkic league have anything in common with the others.

I mean, India is a choice, but India probably just has a bone to pick with everyone and 'really' doesn't want to fall further into the Technate's sphere, especially with Bengal and Assam both being part.

The only one that really is remote enough from China that would want to associate with the Technate is the A3, although I bet they'll happily try to create incidents along the African periphery to tie down the other alliances.

Great discussion. Of the various alliance blocs the Technocratic Union is closest with the A3. This is much more a friendship of convenience than ideology although both camps due share a strong distrust of "Western imperialism". However, this isn't to say that all the other blocs oppose the TU. The AES doesn't really have any opposing claims with the TU and view them as a helpful distraction for Russia. The Turin Pact and OMD don't like the TU on ideological grounds but also don't really have a stake in the Pacific.
 
Well Siam has a respectable military that has been bolstered over the years with aid from the CSAS, ComNat, and the United States. However, it would certainly need foreign intervention to fend off a full technocratic invasion.
I still can't believe that Japan didn't carve out a puppet Thai corporatist government following its war with Thailand in the 1970s. Could have been immense help in the Asia-Pacific war
 
I still can't believe that Japan didn't carve out a puppet Thai corporatist government following its war with Thailand in the 1970s. Could have been immense help in the Asia-Pacific war

The corporatists probably didn't have a strong enough following in Siam to establish a stable government. Plus, at the time the corporatists likely thought that rump Siam was neutered enough to not be a threat. Of course Siam would come back to bit them during the Asia-Pacific War.
 
@Mac Gregor, I'm sure you have answered this question numerous times, but what happened to prevent America from following its OTL path of illiberal interventions in Latin America, and instead made it support democracy and development?

Does the alert appear to be working?

Sorry for the delay frustrated progressive. The single biggest factor is the lack of the threat of global communism and therefore no need to try and counter balance it. Secondly, European nations such as Napoleonic France and later Imperial Japan were cozying up to right wing Latin American governments leading to the United States backing the more liberal ones. However, that is not to say that the United States has never been heavy handed trying to favor its own interest in the region ITTL. Hope this helps.
 
Sorry for the delay frustrated progressive. The single biggest factor is the lack of the threat of global communism and therefore no need to try and counter balance it. Secondly, European nations such as Napoleonic France and later Imperial Japan were cozying up to right wing Latin American governments leading to the United States backing the more liberal ones. However, that is not to say that the United States has never been heavy handed trying to favor its own interest in the region ITTL. Hope this helps.
Yes, it sure does. Thanks.Any specific PODs? And how has our acquisition of Santo Domingo affected matters?
 
Yes, it sure does. Thanks.Any specific PODs? And how has our acquisition of Santo Domingo affected matters?

I would think the increased Latin American population has helped the US in that regard

Good question. An earlier Spanish American War is probably one of the chief PODs. Santo Domingo certainly has had an effect. At first, when it became a territory in 1869, it didn't really have an affect. However, Santo Domingo's service during the war by units like the San Cristobal Volunteers for example, gave the United States a better appreciation for Latino Americans in general. Furthermore, with Cuba becoming a state in 1901, Santo Domingo in 1912, and Puerto Rico in 1936 the TL's America doesn't view Latin America as some distinctly foreign realm but more like fellow republics arrayed against the forces of European colonialism and monarchism.
 
2008: Foreign and Domestic Developments
2008

Foreign and Domestic Developments

Nox.png

The Planet Nox as seen by the probe Pilger

In January, the German spacecraft
Pilger, the first probe to reach the planet Nox, sent back photographs of the small frozen world. In recent years, the discovery of additional astronomical bodies on the distant edges of the solar system has prompted debate as to their proper classification.

XVIII Winter Olympiad was held in Kabul, Afghanistan the first Muslim nation to host the Winter Olympics. King Safiuallah Khan who opened the games heralded the event as a major milestone for his nation. Although the games occurred without incident, a number of visitors complained of the shabby accommodations and inadequate public transportation.

After nearly 40 years on the throne, King Edward VIII died at the age of 87. Having no sons, the crown passed to his eldest daughter Mary who was crowned Queen Victoria II, becoming the first female British monarch since her namesake great-great-great grandmother passed away in 1902. The Commonwealth of Nations held several heartfelt memorials for their late king who had seen them through the Asia-Pacific War and into the Information Age.

After near endless debate the Republican controlled Senate ratified American membership in the PTO. By the end of the year, a total of 13 other countries including Siam, Malaya, Brunei, Sarawak, New Zealand, Australia, East Timor, Japan, Canada, Mexico, the Philippines, the United Kingdom, and Colombia would also ratify the treaty. The relatively poor showing in Latin America was a surprise to many policy experts who had expected most nations to follow America’s lead. Some interpreted their rejection of the treaty as growing signs of independence from the United States. Others however, believed most Latin American states were confident in the security guarantees under the LAR and saw little need to become involved in Asian affairs.

On May 12, a powerful earthquake struck northwest of the Chinese city of Chengtu in Szechuan province killing over 70,000 people making it the deadliest earthquake to hit China since 1976. While various government directorates provided aid, millions were left homeless. Technate leader Yu Qishan vowed to rebuild the provincial city into a “world class center of technology and industry.”

In what would prove to be the biggest international blockbusters of the decade, the twin films Outremer and Salah ad-Din were released simultaneously to near universal critical acclaim. The extremely expensive Franco-Syrian project about the third crusade took nearly three years to film on location and nearly bankrupted the two principle studios involved before generating windfall profits. The movies were exceedingly popular throughout Europe and the Arabic speaking world with all but the most partisan critics.

During autumn, the Madras Stock Exchange was deemed by financial analysts to have overtaken Singapore becoming the world’s fifth largest stock market. Only New York, Frankfurt, London, and Shanghai could boast exchanges with higher market capitalizations.

In the American presidential election, Peter Rowland cruised to reelection in the biggest landside since 1820. The Democrats who found themselves bitterly divided in the primaries over PTO ratification eventually settled on the pro-treaty senator from Utah Kyle Nugent and vocal treaty critic Louisiana governor Norman Sweeney a compromise that proved confusing to voters. Many opponents of the PTO, settled on independent candidate Pat Haynie which sapped votes from the Democrats. Moreover, a booming economy doomed any chance that Nugent had for successfully unseating the incumbent. In the end, the Democrats carried only seven states and lost additional seats in the House and Senate, giving Rowland a strong mandate for the next four years.

2008 election.png
 
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Franco-Syrian

Always did wonder how well Syria would interact with the TP; considering how the alliance is predicated upon large republics being relatively coequal.

Either way, still good to see the effects of a peaceful Levant without internecine warfare. It must have done wonders for the region.

Madras Stock Exchange

Good to see Madras moving up still. Would it be relatively accurate to say that they are roughly equivalent to OTL Japan in terms of development/importance?
 
Good update Macrgregor! It's nice to see Afghanistan become a rather stable and modern country TTL so that they don't have to suffer any constant wars of terror. Kabul may not be Abu Dabhi but at least you don't have to wake up to the sounds of bombs.

Long live the Queen!

Interesting to see the PTO come about which will most likely be TTL's version of SEATO. It's safe to say that with the IEF down the United States is a superpower that is slightly above Germany thanks to its control of both the Pacific and the Americas. I can sense that this might become the start of a Cold War with the Technocrates which will lead to Rowland developing his own doctrine and making defense spending his main priority for the second term. Waiting to see how this will go in the future both on Earth and in space.

And it looks like the Rowland Era is on the rise with Pete becoming what is probably going to be TTL's version of Ronald Reagan for the Republicans. He certainly owned the Democratic Party in the election with a whopping 559 Electoral Votes. What is the American population by the way? Now that the Republicans will continue to be in power, it looks like modern industrialization will continue along with the possibility of space colonization emerging in the coming decades. Rowland 2008!

Must've been really awkward for the ticket to be comprised of two extreme viewpoints on a treaty Really doesn't make any sense as while it is traditional for a party to get two candidates of a slightly different ideology on the ticket, here it would be like if Ted Cruz and Bernie Sanders were running a campaign together. I can see the results of that.
Nugnet: I support the PTO.
Sweenie: Fuck the PTO!

By the way since it says that the Republicans chose Rowland at the convention and Nugnet at the Democrats, is there virtually no election primaries TTL? I would've thought that someone over the years would be for it, even with no '68 DNC Riots.
 
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