The Union Forever: A TL

[Mac Gregor]

Perhaps. And surely in India is on future much problems between Muslims and Hindus. And probably much ethnic tensions too. Anyway, what situation in Indian states is with caste system?

The newly independent Republic of India, and to a lesser extent Madras and Ceylon, are taking steps to effectively eliminate the caste system. In the Princely States the caste system is more enforced.

 

[Mac Gregor]

Beautiful as always. Keep it up!

Edit: BTW, who is the British monarch?

Thanks, George V is the current British monarch.

 

[Mac Gregor]

Actually, could we get a list of European Monarchs since the PoD?

See the list above. I believe Zoidberg12 will be helping cover the other countries.

 

[IchBinDieKaiser]

Has anything similar to OTL Radical Islam crept up?

 

[Mac Gregor]

Use Russia still Julian Calendar and what kind of party system in Russia is?

Russia does still use the Julian Calendar, and yes that causes massive confusion with tourists.

Russia uses a proportional party system. However, the powers that be have ensured that the wealthy, conservatives, and ethnic Russians retain their dominance. The Motherland Party is the largest of the rightwing parties and is a staunch defender of the monarchy, army, and Russian Orthodox Church. It is widely viewed as Slavophilic. The leftist opposition is highly fractured consisting of social democrats, Christian democrats, socialists, and a growing Krulikist movement. Communists and anarchists are currently barred from openly running for office. In resent years separatist parties from Poland, Finland, the Baltics, Manchuria, and the Muslim territories have been gaining in strength.

 

[Mac Gregor]

Has anything similar to OTL Radical Islam crept up?

It is around but very much reduced from OTL. Radical Islam's main three grievances don't really happen ITTL.

1) Israel. There is no Israel.
2) Abolition of the Caliphate. The Sultan of Arabia holds the title of Caliph of all the Muslims.
3) Western colonialism. Western colonialism never really reached the heart of the middle east. However Muslims do resent France and Italy's hold on North Africa but that is more of a decolonization than religious thing.

 

[Utgard96]

Monarchs of the United Kingdom:
Victoria (1837 - 1902)
Edward VII (1902 - 1913)
Victor (1913 - 1953)
George V (1953 - )

So Eddy Victor survived ITTL? If he did, I doubt he'd call himself King Victor, as that isn't really a traditional or common royal name. Albert seems much more likely, both from his first name and in honour of his grandfather. I also doubt he'll live into the fifties, seeing as just how much of an accomplishment it was for George V to live as long as he did IOTL.

 

[Mac Gregor]

So Eddy Victor survived ITTL? If he did, I doubt he'd call himself King Victor, as that isn't really a traditional or common royal name. Albert seems much more likely, both from his first name and in honour of his grandfather. I also doubt he'll live into the fifties, seeing as just how much of an accomplishment it was for George V to live as long as he did IOTL.

The person you are referring to was born after the POD. The TL's King Victor is a different person remembered today for his conservatism and promotion of Empire.

 

[Utgard96]

The person you are referring to was born after the POD. The TL's King Victor is a different person remembered today for his conservatism and promotion of Empire.

My point about the use (or rather, non-use) of Victor as a regnal name stands.

 

[Mac Gregor]

My point about the use (or rather, non-use) of Victor as a regnal name stands.

Indeed, I seriously considered using Albert. Is Victor really that bad of a name for a Monarch to use?

 

[Zoidberg12]

Indeed, I seriously considered using Albert. Is Victor really that bad of a name for a Monarch to use?

I never thought it was a bad name, just a little uncommon for British royalty I guess.

Even though Prince Albert was born in 1864, after the POD, I don't see why he cant exist in this world considering he's born into royalty. Maybe TTL's version of Albert is slightly different than OTL.

 

[Zoidberg12]

Zoidberg12 the list looks great. Please go ahead for other countries. I will answer your other questions soon. Cheers!

Thanks. Time for the list of US Vice Presidents.

1. John Adams (Federalist) (1789-1797)
2. Thomas Jefferson (Democratic-Republican) (1797-1801)
3. Aaron Burr (Democratic-Republican) (1801-1805)
4. George Clinton (Democratic-Republican) (1805-1812) †
Vacancy by death (1812-1813)
5. Elbridge Gerry (Democratic-Republican) (1813-1814) †
Vacancy by death (1814-1817)
6. Daniel T. Tompkins (Democratic-Republican) (1817-1825)
7. John C. Calhoun (Democratic-Republican) (1825-1829) (Democratic) (1829-1832)*
Vacancy by resignation (1832-1833)
8. Martin Van Buren (Democratic) (1833-1837)
9. Richard Mentor Johnson (Democratic) (1837-1841)
10. John Tyler (Whig) (1841)
Vacancy by ascension (1841-1845)
11. George M. Dallas (Democratic) (1845-1849)
Vacancy by ascension (1841-1845)
12. Millard Fillmore (Whig) (1849-1850)
Vacancy by ascension (1849-1853)
13. William R. King (Democratic) (1853-1857) †
Vacancy by death (1853-1857)
14. John C. Breckenridge (Democratic) (1857-1861)
15. Hannibal Hamlin (Republican) (1861-1869)
16. Arthur I. Boreman (Republican) (1869-1877)
17. James G. Blaine (Republican) (1877-1885)
18. David B. Hill (Democratic) (1885-1891)
Vacancy by ascension (1891-1893)
19. John M. Palmer (Democratic) (1893-1897)
20. Horace Boise (Democratic) (1897-1901)
21. Nathan Goff Jr. (Republican) (1901-1909)
22. Andrew Johnson Jr. (Republican) (1909-1913)
23. Jacob R. Alexander (Republican) (1913-1921)
24. Nelson R. Doner (Republican) (1921)
Vacancy by ascension (1921-1925)
25. Brendan Theol (Republican) (1921-1925)
26. Kenneth P. Bergstrom (Democratic) (1925-1933)
27. Edgar D. Glover (Democratic) (1933-1937)
28. Travis B. Wingfield (Republican) (1937-1941)
29. Timothy G. Buchholz (Democratic) (1941-1949)
30. Luther T. Vanderbelt (Republican) (1949-1957)
31. Bryon Howley (Democratic) (1957- )

† = Died in Office
* = Resigned

 

[Zoidberg12]

Here's a list of British Prime Ministers, with some speculations. The only differences with OTL's list occur during and after the Cambpell-Bannerman Premiership. IOTL he died in 1908, yet in TTL he's alive in 1909. Everythings the same before than, even after the POD, since butterflies havnt reached over the pond yet so to speak. Also, everyone after Curzon is fictional, in keeping with TTL's rules.

King George I (1714-1727) and George II (1727-1760)

Sir Robert Walpole (Whig) (1721-1730, 1730-1742)
Spencer Compton, 1st Earl of Wilmington (Whig) (1742-1743) †
Henry Pelham (Whig) (1743-1754) †
Thomas Pelham-Holles, 1st Duke of Newcastle (Whig) (1754-1756)
William Cavendish, 4th Duke of Devonshire (Whig) (1756-1757)
Thomas Pelham-Holles, 1st Duke of Newcastle (Whig) (1757-1762)

King George III (1760-1820)

John Stuart, 3rd Earl of Bute (Tory) (1762-1763)
George Grenville (Whig-Grenvillite) (1763-1765)
Charles Watson-Wentworth, 2nd Marquess of Rockingham (Whig-Rockingham) (1765-1766)
William Pitt, 1st Earl of Chatham (Whig-Chathamite) (1766-1768)
Augustus FitzRoy, 3rd Duke of Grafton (Whig-Chathamite) (1768-1770)
Frederick North, Lord North (Tory) (1770-1782)
Charles Watson-Wentworth, 2nd Marquess of Rockingham (Whig-Rockingham (1782) †
William Petty, 2nd Earl of Shelburne (1783) (Whig-Chathamite)
William Cavendish-Bentinck, 3rd Duke of Portland (Whig) (1783)
William Pitt the Younger (Tory-Pittite) (1783-1801)
Henry Addington (Tory-Pittite) (1801-1804)
William Pitt the Younger (Tory-Pittite) (1804-1806) †
William Grenville, 1st Baron Grenville (Whig) (1806-1807)
William Cavendish-Bentinck, 3rd Duke of Portland (nominally Tory) (1807-1809)
Spencer Perceval (Tory) (1809-1812) ††
Robert Jenkinson, 2nd Earl of Liverpool (Tory) (1812-1827)

King George IV (1820-1830)

George Canning (Tory-Channingite) (1827) †
Frederick John Robinson, 1st Viscount Goderich (Tory-Channingite) (1827-1828)
Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington (Tory) (1828-1830)

King William IV (1830-1837)

Charles Grey, 2nd Earl Grey (Whig) (1830-1834)
William Lamb, 2nd Viscount Melbourne (Whig) (1834)
Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington (Tory) (1834)
Sir Robert Peel (Conservative) (1834-1835)
William Lamb, 2nd Viscount Melbourne (Whig) (1835-1841)

Queen Victoria (1837-1902)

Sir Robert Peel (Conservative) (1841-1846)
Lord John Russell (Whig) (1846-1852)
Edward Smith-Stanley, 14th Earl of Derby (Conservative) (1852)
George Hamilton-Gordon, 4th Earl of Aberdeen (Peelite) (1852-1855)
Henry John Temple, 3rd Viscount Palmerston (Whig) (1855-1858)
Edward Smith-Stanley, 14th Earl of Derby (Conservative) (1858-1859)
Henry John Temple, 3rd Viscount Palmerston (Liberal) (1859-1865) †
John Russell, 1st Earl Russell (Liberal) (1865-1866)
Edward Smith-Stanley, 14th Earl of Derby (Conservative) (1866-1868)
Benjamin Disraeli (Conservative) (1868)
William Ewart Gladstone (Liberal) (1868-1874)
Benjamin Disraeli (Conservative) (1874-1880)
William Ewart Gladstone (Liberal) (1880-1885)
Robert Gascoyne-Cecil, 3rd Marquess of Salisbury (Conservative) (1885-1886)
William Ewart Gladstone (Liberal) (1886)
Robert Gascoyne-Cecil, 3rd Marquess of Salisbury (Conservative) (1886-1892)
Archibald Primrose, 5th Earl of Rosebery (Liberal) (1892-1895)
Robert Gascoyne-Cecil, 3rd Marquess of Salisbury (Conservative) (1895-1902)

Edward VIII (1902-1913)

Arthur Balfour (Conservative) (1902-1905)
Sir Henry Campbell-Bannerman (Liberal) (1905-1911)
Herbert Henry Asquith (Liberal) (1911-1916)

Victor (1913-1953)

David Lloyd George (Liberal) (1916-1924)
George Curzon, 1st Marquess Curzon of Kedleston (Conservative) (1924-1925) †
Reginald Hackett (Conservative) (1925-1931)
Andrew David Hobbes (Liberal) (1933-1935)
Reginald Hackett (Conservative) (1935-1938)
Isaac Pickering (Liberal) (1938-1952)
Sir Ryan Baxter (Conservative) (1952- )

George V (1953- )

† = Died in Office
†† = Assassinated

 

[Mac Gregor]

Here's a list of British Prime Ministers, with some speculations. The only differences with OTL's list occur during and after the Cambpell-Bannerman Premiership. IOTL he died in 1908, yet in TTL he's alive in 1909. Everythings the same before than, even after the POD, since butterflies havnt reached over the pond yet so to speak. Also, everyone after Curzon is fictional, in keeping with TTL's rules.

Very impressive Zoidberg12! Sadly, I believe that butterflies demand that some changes have to be made from OTL post POD and before Cambpell-Bannerman. I like the fictional names after Curzon.

 

[Zoidberg12]

Here's Canadian Prime Ministers. During and asfter Laurier's term is different than OTL. Everyone past Gouin is fictional.

1. Sir John A. MacDonald (Conservative) (1867-1873)
2. Alexander Mackenzie (Liberal) (1873-1878)
1. Sir John A. MacDonald (Conservative) (1878-1891)
3. Sir John Abbott (Conservative) (1891-1892)
4. Sir John Thompson (Conservative) (1892-1894)
5. Sir Mackenzie Bowell (Conservative) (1894-1896)
6. Sir Charles Tupper (Conservative) (1896)
7. Sir Wilfrid Laurier (Liberal) (1896-1913)
8. Sir Robert Borden (Conservative) (1913-1922)
9. Lomer Gouin (Liberal) (1922-1929)
10. Jonathan Bedford (Conservative) (1927-1932)
11. William Joseph Rodgers (Liberal) (1932-1939)
12. Jonathan Bedford (Conservative) (1939-1945)
13. Arthur Flynn (Liberal) (1945-1949)
14. Herbert McPherson (Liberal) (1949-1956)
15. Lawrence Johnston (Conservative ) (1956- )

 

[metastasis_d]

How do you come up with so many names?

 

[Zoidberg12]

How do you come up with so many names?

A combination of brainstorming and this website.

 

[Mac Gregor]

Here's Canadian Prime Ministers. During and asfter Laurier's term is different than OTL. Everyone past Gouin is fictional.

1. Sir John A. MacDonald (Conservative) (1867-1873)
2. Alexander Mackenzie (Liberal) (1873-1878)
1. Sir John A. MacDonald (Conservative) (1878-1891)
3. Sir John Abbott (Conservative) (1891-1892)
4. Sir John Thompson (Conservative) (1892-1894)
5. Sir Mackenzie Bowell (Conservative) (1894-1896)
6. Sir Charles Tupper (Conservative) (1896)
7. Sir Wilfrid Laurier (Liberal) (1896-1913)
8. Sir Robert Borden (Conservative) (1913-1922)
9. Lomer Gouin (Liberal) (1922-1929)
10. Jonathan Bedford (Conservative) (1927-1932)
11. William Joseph Rodgers (Liberal) (1932-1939)
12. Jonathan Bedford (Conservative) (1939-1945)
13. Arthur Flynn (Liberal) (1945-1949)
14. Herbert McPherson (Liberal) (1949-1956)
15. Lawrence Johnston (Conservative ) (1956- )

Great effort Zoidberg12. Again, butterflies demand that some changes be made between the POD and Gouin. Personally I think it is nearly impossible for the same person to get elected at the same time as OTL nearly 60 years after the POD. We can certainly use the last 5 names except that #15 needs to be changed to Joshua Holden as mentioned in the 1958 update. Looking forward to what you will do next. Cheers!

 

[Zoidberg12]

Alright Mac, here are some redone lists of British Prime Ministers and Canadian Prime Ministers. Hopefully everything to your liking.

List of Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom

King George I (1714-1727) and George II (1727-1760)

Sir Robert Walpole (Whig) (1721-1730, 1730-1742)
Spencer Compton, 1st Earl of Wilmington (Whig) (1742-1743) †
Henry Pelham (Whig) (1743-1754) †
Thomas Pelham-Holles, 1st Duke of Newcastle (Whig) (1754-1756)
William Cavendish, 4th Duke of Devonshire (Whig) (1756-1757)
Thomas Pelham-Holles, 1st Duke of Newcastle (Whig) (1757-1762)

King George III (1760-1820)

John Stuart, 3rd Earl of Bute (Tory) (1762-1763)
George Grenville (Whig-Grenvillite) (1763-1765)
Charles Watson-Wentworth, 2nd Marquess of Rockingham (Whig-Rockingham) (1765-1766)
William Pitt, 1st Earl of Chatham (Whig-Chathamite) (1766-1768)
Augustus FitzRoy, 3rd Duke of Grafton (Whig-Chathamite) (1768-1770)
Frederick North, Lord North (Tory) (1770-1782)
Charles Watson-Wentworth, 2nd Marquess of Rockingham (Whig-Rockingham (1782) †
William Petty, 2nd Earl of Shelburne (1783) (Whig-Chathamite)
William Cavendish-Bentinck, 3rd Duke of Portland (Whig) (1783)
William Pitt the Younger (Tory-Pittite) (1783-1801)
Henry Addington (Tory-Pittite) (1801-1804)
William Pitt the Younger (Tory-Pittite) (1804-1806) †
William Grenville, 1st Baron Grenville (Whig) (1806-1807)
William Cavendish-Bentinck, 3rd Duke of Portland (nominally Tory) (1807-1809)
Spencer Perceval (Tory) (1809-1812) ††
Robert Jenkinson, 2nd Earl of Liverpool (Tory) (1812-1827)

King George IV (1820-1830)

George Canning (Tory-Channingite) (1827) †
Frederick John Robinson, 1st Viscount Goderich (Tory-Channingite) (1827-1828)
Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington (Tory) (1828-1830)

King William IV (1830-1837)

Charles Grey, 2nd Earl Grey (Whig) (1830-1834)
William Lamb, 2nd Viscount Melbourne (Whig) (1834)
Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington (Tory) (1834)
Sir Robert Peel (Conservative) (1834-1835)
William Lamb, 2nd Viscount Melbourne (Whig) (1835-1841)

Queen Victoria (1837-1902)

Sir Robert Peel (Conservative) (1841-1846)
Lord John Russell (Whig) (1846-1852)
Edward Smith-Stanley, 14th Earl of Derby (Conservative) (1852)
George Hamilton-Gordon, 4th Earl of Aberdeen (Peelite) (1852-1855)
Henry John Temple, 3rd Viscount Palmerston (Whig) (1855-1858)
Edward Smith-Stanley, 14th Earl of Derby (Conservative) (1858-1859)
Henry John Temple, 3rd Viscount Palmerston (Liberal) (1859-1867) †
John Russell, 1st Earl Russell (Liberal) (1867)
Benjamin Disraeli (Conservative) (1867-1875)
William Ewart Gladstone (Liberal) (1875-1882)
Robert Gascoyne-Cecil, 3rd Marquess of Salisbury (Conservative) (1882-1889)
William Ewart Gladstone (Liberal) (1889-1894)
Archibald Primrose, 5th Earl of Rosebery (Liberal) (1894-1896)
Robert Gascoyne-Cecil, 3rd Marquess of Salisbury (Conservative) (1896-1903)

Edward VIII (1902-1913)

Arthur Balfour (Conservative) (1903-1906)
Sir Henry Campbell-Bannerman (Liberal) (1906-1912) †
Herbert Henry Asquith (Liberal) (1912-1916)

Victor (1913-1953)

David Lloyd George (Liberal) (1916-1924)
George Curzon, 1st Marquess Curzon of Kedleston (Conservative) (1924-1925) †
Reginald Hackett (Conservative) (1925-1931)
Andrew David Hobbes (Liberal) (1933-1935)
Reginald Hackett (Conservative) (1935-1938)
Isaac Pickering (Liberal) (1938-1952)
Sir Ryan Baxter (Conservative) (1952- )


George V (1953- )

† = Died in Office
†† = Assassinated

List of Prime Ministers of Canada

1. Sir John A. MacDonald (Conservative) (1867-1874)
2. Alexander Mackenzie (Liberal) (1874-1881)
1. Sir John A. MacDonald (Conservative) (1881-1890) †
3. Sir John Abbott (Conservative) (1890-1891) †
4. Sir Charles Turper (Conservative) (1891-1895)
5. Sir Mackenzie Bowell (Conservative) (1895-1898)
6. Sir Wilfrid Laurier (Liberal) (1898-1901)
7. Sir Robert Borden (Conservative) (1901-1902)
8. Sir Wilfrid Laurier (Liberal) (1902-1914)
9. Sir Robert Borden (Conservative) (1914-1922)
10. Lomer Gouin (Liberal) (1922-1929)
11. Jonathan Bedford (Conservative) (1927-1932)
12. William Joseph Rodgers (Liberal) (1932-1939)
13. Jonathan Bedford (Conservative) (1939-1945)
14. Arthur Flynn (Liberal) (1945-1949)
15. Herbert McPherson (Liberal) (1949-1956)
16. Joshua Holden (Conservative ) (1956-1959)
17. Lawrence Johnston (Conservative ) (1959- )

† = Died in Office

 

[CaliBoy1990]

Here's Canadian Prime Ministers. During and asfter Laurier's term is different than OTL. Everyone past Gouin is fictional.

1. Sir John A. MacDonald (Conservative) (1867-1873)
2. Alexander Mackenzie (Liberal) (1873-1878)
1. Sir John A. MacDonald (Conservative) (1878-1891)
3. Sir John Abbott (Conservative) (1891-1892)
4. Sir John Thompson (Conservative) (1892-1894)
5. Sir Mackenzie Bowell (Conservative) (1894-1896)
6. Sir Charles Tupper (Conservative) (1896)
7. Sir Wilfrid Laurier (Liberal) (1896-1913)
8. Sir Robert Borden (Conservative) (1913-1922)
9. Lomer Gouin (Liberal) (1922-1929)
10. Jonathan Bedford (Conservative) (1927-1932)
11. William Joseph Rodgers (Liberal) (1932-1939)
12. Jonathan Bedford (Conservative) (1939-1945)
13. Arthur Flynn (Liberal) (1945-1949)
14. Herbert McPherson (Liberal) (1949-1956)
15. Lawrence Johnston (Conservative ) (1956- )

Good job, Zoidberg12. Good to see that Laurier got his time in the spotlight, IMO: He was one of Canada's better PMs.