The Ummayads win the siege of Constantinople (674-678). What can they realistically conquer?

This was more in the germanic regions, where the forests were really dense, in the region where the Rus lived was less dense, and such uses were less necessary, so have chances that they would convert, especially if you consider the geopolitic situation
True if we go by the pork part
But the wheat part is still true
And wheat is the basis of the diet
So this combined with the latitude theory and the fact that the Rus are way more dependant on agricultire than sttepe nomads
Means that the likely hood of this is low
 
and also has the chance of the Rus picking up Islam by creating a branch suited for themselves, who knows
That could be it but why go to the hassle of creating a heretical branch of that
When they already could convert to catholisim
If they do make a heretical branch of Islam they lose the support of Islam and the chirstians
If they turn to Catholisim they have the holy Roman empire or an alreraltern German state ( but the likely hood of the hre is atill very high) to help them
 
True if we go by the pork part
But the wheat part is still true
And wheat is the basis of the diet
So this combined with the latitude theory and the fact that the Rus are way more dependant on agricultire than sttepe nomads
Means that the likely hood of this is low

As far as i know, Islam bans consuming alcohol, do not ban to use in food preservation, ban?
 
That could be it but why go to the hassle of creating a heretical branch of that
When they already could convert to catholisim
If they do make a heretical branch of Islam they lose the support of Islam and the chirstians
If they turn to Catholisim they have the holy Roman empire or an alreraltern German state ( but the likely hood of the hre is atill very high) to help them

In that case, i find it more difficult because they get too far east, and will probably face christians in the northern crusades (rather than have many contact before this), and if estonians and semigallians gave a certain job to the christians, i do not think the rus will be easy to convert by force
 
As far as i know, Islam bans consuming alcohol, do not ban to use in food preservation, ban?[/QUOTE

the first fatwa is alcohol that is mixed with other things, whereby the alcohol is fully absorbed into the mixture and no trace of it is left.(not the case with medival grain preservation) In that case, it is permissible to eat and drink that in which it has been fully absorbed.

In the case of the Rus

the essence of the alcohol is still present and has not been fully absorbed into the food with which it is mixed, and its effect on the food remains apparent. In that case it is haraam to eat the food even if the amount of alcohol that is present is very little and drinking it would not cause intoxication, because “that which intoxicates in large amounts, a small amount of it is haraam.”
 
If they do make a heretical branch of Islam they lose the support of Islam and the chirstians

"Heretical" branchs are VERY common in Islam, it has many branches beyond the traditional Sunni-Shia division, the turks themselves had levism as their own branch, which openly allowed alcohol (The Ottomans did a good job of eliminating this branch later), there is also the branch of the Ismailites, which discourage more than banning alcohol, the Rus will have a greater basis for following such a own branch, since in the case of levism, what resulted in the decline was more the central authority than lack of support for it (the Ottomans pledged themselves to be total Sunnis to unite the Empire on a basis), in the case of Rus, both the central authority and the people will be connected to it, then it would probably work out.
 
And in the case of support, it depends more on the rest of what this branch presents than necessarily on that part, if it is a Sunni branch, sunnis should support (depending on how close to the original Sunni it is), and in case of being Shia, will be received with open arms by them (Shiites never refused to support a new branch of themselves, since it meant more potential supporters)
 
Isma'ilism also prohibits alcohol

No, from what i have seen here they only discourage the consumption

"The Alevi Muslims of Turkey permit alcohol, unlike many other denominations.[6] Ismaili Muslims are also noted for discouraging, rather than prohibiting, alcohol.[7] The Zaidiand Mutazili sects believe that the use of alcohol has always been forbidden and refer to the Qur'an Ayah (4:43) as feeling of sleepiness and not to be awake."
 
I think OTL's European Russia would end up divided between an Islamic South-East and a Christian North-West.

I say the catholisim will win the Rus so they can have a United religion as a rally cry to defend themselves from the Muslim sttepe tribes
And if the HRE does form like the original timeline
( Which is likely since the Muslims being to busy in the balkans won't prevent charlagmanes live and west and east francia occur )
So with the Rus being attacked by Islamic sttepe nomads

The prohibition of alcohol for food preservation by the main brach ofIslam and a powerfull Christian state to its west border

Makes more sense for the Rus to be Catholic than Muslim
 
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I desagree
I think that the Rus will not covert to Islam
Because in. Those northern regions in that time most meat came from pork and preservation of wheat was via alchol things prohibited by Islam
Unless the Rus want to starve I don't see them converting

This isn't true because the Volga Bulgars in that region converted to Islam just fine without starving, and the later Khanate of Sibir was also a far north Muslim polity that had no recorded issues. Even if it's that big of a barrier, remember that many of the OTL Abbasid caliphs and Umayyad caliphs of Cordoba were famous alcoholics, and that regions like Turkey and Iran have been known for long alcohol consuming traditions even after the spread of Islam. If OTL Muslims in Bosnia regularly drink alcohol and eat pork despite the prohibition, why can't Muslims in ATL Russia do the same?
 
This isn't true because the Volga Bulgars in that region converted to Islam just fine without starving, and the later Khanate of Sibir was also a far north Muslim polity that had no recorded issues. Even if it's that big of a barrier, remember that many of the OTL Abbasid caliphs and Umayyad caliphs of Cordoba were famous alcoholics, and that regions like Turkey and Iran have been known for long alcohol consuming traditions even after the spread of Islam. If OTL Muslims in Bosnia regularly drink alcohol and eat pork despite the prohibition, why can't Muslims in ATL Russia do the same?

is also what I said, several branches of Islam (mainly shiites branches) do not prohibit the consumption/use of alcohol
 
This isn't true because the Volga Bulgars in that region converted to Islam just fine without starving, and the later Khanate of Sibir was also a far north Muslim polity that had no recorded issues. Even if it's that big of a barrier, remember that many of the OTL Abbasid caliphs and Umayyad caliphs of Cordoba were famous alcoholics, and that regions like Turkey and Iran have been known for long alcohol consuming traditions even after the spread of Islam. If OTL Muslims in Bosnia regularly drink alcohol and eat pork despite the prohibition, why can't Muslims in ATL Russia do the same?

In additon to that, the alcoholic drink that most Rus consumed was mead, that has a fairly mild alcoholic content and could easily be tolerated by the Islamic authorities, like the Nomadic Turkic tribes' kumiss was, read https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...n-rus-converts-to-islam.401096/#post-13395652. The same applies to the alcohol that the Rus used to preserve the food.
 
The prohibition of alcohol for food preservation by the main brach ofIslam and a powerfull Christian state to its west border

HRE will not be in the west border of the Rus, remember that the medieval russian states only came to border with christendom after the Northern Crusades, in the meantime, i'm sure that contact with muslims would already have converted the Rus, and the prohibition depends very much on which branch of the two main you will use, the russians may be very well alevites or mutlazites
 
HRE will not be in the west border of the Rus, remember that the medieval russian states only came to border with christendom after the Northern Crusades, in the meantime, i'm sure that contact with muslims would already have converted the Rus, and the prohibition depends very much on which branch of the two main you will use, the russians may be very well alevites or mutlazites
True except for .The northern crusades part since by the time of the Rus convertion poland had converted

Again what geopolitical advantage do the rus get if they covert support? If the magyars don't follow their branch of Islam they won't support them .
thand Poland and hre( who defeated the magyars and became the dominant power in the region )
won't be happy with another Islamic state
It's not geopolitically good unless the Hungarians also follow the same branch of Islam as the Rus
The best case for Islam would be that the south becomes Islamic and the north Catholic
 
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