The Ultimate Irony: A Fascist Israel Challenge

Which of these are more realistic\make a better story

  • Jewish Defense League seizes power instead of being banned.

    Votes: 10 55.6%
  • Ben-Gurion goes mad with power.

    Votes: 3 16.7%
  • Military coup d'etat by an unknown,young,and charismaticHitler-esque figure

    Votes: 3 16.7%
  • Israeli extremists cull government blame it on the enemy,do a coup d'etat

    Votes: 2 11.1%

  • Total voters
    18
Status
Not open for further replies.
You wouldn't need to call it fascism though. And as BBadolato said, it would be closer to Mussolini than Hitler (by which I mean political prisoners,but not quite on the level of the GESTAPO,traditional values,but not to the extent of the Nazis or even Franco.)
 

katchen

Banned
I don't know about a fascist Israel post 1948 but Ben Gurion and Golda Meir did attempt to bring Israel into the Warsaw Pact until rebuffed by Stalin in 1951. An Israel in the Soviet Bloc would have been a very different place.
For a fascist Israel you want Israel to declare independence unilaterally about 1940 on both sides of the Jordan. Read the Wikipedia article on Revisionist Zionism. Pay special attention to the section on Revisionist Maximalism. It was the Revisionist Maximalists who were attracted to the fascism of Mussolini. From that you can build your TL
 
Didn't the Israeli economy pretty much go down the toilet in the 70s and 80s, to the extent that there was a spate of mass nationalisations and they had to switch out the currency for a new one? Turn that up the 11, be it they get hit with a perfect storm of atrocious economic factors or the governments refuse to implement harsh measures needed to combat it due to political fears, with the economy going into absolute meltdown and in times of crisis people could turn to more extreme movements. On the face of it fascist parties could offer what looks like an new alternative to the usual left or right wing policies in the form of a third way.

It won't work. Those protests were led by the Israeli Black Panthers, mostly, who protested against the government's exclusionary policy towards Mizrahi Jews. The Panthers themselves were far-left, and in fact joined the Israeli Communist Party in founding the most leftist faction in the Knesset, Hadash, but those protests led to the rise of the right-wing because it was clear to everybody that Likud was the only alternative to the Mapai/Alignment governments that ruled Israel all the way to 1977. I don't see exactly how to turn it up to 11 would help at all, and considering Menahem Begin was far from fascist (he was right-wing alright, but if one reads what he wrote throughout the years he definitely would not turn fascist), and was the only logical alternative to the Alignment, I don't see a fascist Israel rising out of it. Now, there was the Kach movement, who - if they were to take power - would definitely mean a fascist Israel according to OP's definitions. However, there is not way that Kach would gain power out of an economic crisis because they never really had any economic policy, and besides they were very religious with the majority of Israelis (even if they weren't atheists) being much more secular.
 
If it's after the War of Independence, than a Fascist Israel is something that no one would consider to touch with a 50ft pole. Fascism by then is tainted with it's synonymous association with the Nazi's that it can't happen. You would need an alternate creation for Israel that doesn't involve active genocide and prejudice from the right, as a motivator for it's existence.

That isn't necessarily true. Of course no self-respecting Israeli would call themselves a fascist or a Nazi and expect to ever be accepted in Israeli politics, but there is plenty of wiggle room for people to use fascist methods and means of behavior to do what they believe is necessary.

Israel was an unlikely state, a Jewish enclave smack dab amidst powerful, hostile Arab neighbors. It's survival during the 1948 war was from a conventional military sense, shocking, the side that was fighting on three fronts and was desperately outnumbered achieved total victory.

Fascism and like-minded ideologies thrive on the sense of omnipresent threat: some tangible evil lurking just on the other side to destroy everything we hold dear. And this is a good situation for that sort of mentality to take root.
 
The thing is that Israel didn't need any extreme leaders to deal with its military situation. Pretty much everyone who wasn't MaKI was very militaristic in Israeli politics in those days, you didn't need someone stronger to deal with strong enemies, because the socialists were already very eager on doing that, despite being socialists. Really, the entire cultural, political and military elite of Israel in the 50's was composed of socialists and kibbutznikim who not only founded Israel, but ruled it and did that pretty well (if your only criteria for ruling is 'survival', of course). They got the job done, which is why there wasn't really any need for radical changes, which mean that any fascist or far-right party wouldn't rise to great proportions.
 
Reply to Katchen

The POD has to be after the war, and I didn't find any mentions of "Revisionist Zionist Maximalism",although that could have been a search error. The closest political party to "moderate fascism" that has any chance of being elected (even the Nazis were elected to power) or being recognized by the USA (since the JDL has been declared a terrorist organization is the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jewish_Home.
 
The type of fascism I'm talking about is the kind that Grandpatanka and HeavyweaponsGuy are talking about. I wouldn't be surprised if they majored in history or political science. Sorry I wasan't more clear:eek:
 
Last edited:

Rex Mundi

Banned
The type of fascism I'm talking about is the kind that Grandpatanka and HeavyweaponsGuy are talking about. I wouldn't be surprised if they majored in history or political science. Sorry I wasan't more clear:eek:

Dude, STOP. What is with you and having to post every two minutes? Make longer posts if you have something to say, not five one-liners in a row.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
I would move this to Chat, but polls are banned in Chat, and since this will be a political bloodbath I will lock it instead
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top