The U.S.S. Maine Explodes on U.S. Soil in 1898

CaliGuy

Banned
What if the U.S.S. Maine's voyage to Cuba would have--for whatever reason--been postponed and it thus would have exploded on U.S. soil instead?

Would the U.S. have still went to war with Spain in this TL?
 
At that point in time there were a lot of people in the US clamoring for war in order to "free" Cuba. They most likely would have found a way to pin the blame for the explosion on a Spanish saboteur.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
At that point in time there were a lot of people in the US clamoring for war in order to "free" Cuba. They most likely would have found a way to pin the blame for the explosion on a Spanish saboteur.
A Spanish saboteur on U.S. soil?
 
A Spanish saboteur on U.S. soil?
Yes. IOTL the reason the U.S. went to war was already dumb enough by making it seem like a conspiracy by the Spanish to threaten the U.S., which would've been akin to shooting themselves in the foot. I would have no trouble believing that in an alternate reality there's a news headline from 1899 that states "SPAIN DESTROYS SHIP ON AMERICAN SOIL!".
 
What the heck is the Maine doing on soil? US Waters, more likely. If it were on land either it ran up on some rocks and the tide went out or it is being repaired.

But if it did blow up in US waters then the people who wanted the war would find another reason no doubt
 
What the heck is the Maine doing on soil? US Waters, more likely. If it were on land either it ran up on some rocks and the tide went out or it is being repaired.

But if it did blow up in US waters then the people who wanted the war would find another reason no doubt
Soil usually refers to a sovereign countries territory both on land and sea in the context of geopolitics. Or at least, that's how I've seen it used all my life.
 
I doubt that the Maine would be the causus belli if it blew up elsewhere; warships do that. (I think the USA was fortunate to lose only one battleship to spontaneous disassembly) Britain lost some, Japan lost Mutsu in World War II, Italy lost one in World War I, and I know that others blew up. That said, somene would find another reason for war...
 
One of the US military plans to justify a war against Cuba during the Cold War was to crash planes onto the US and claim that the Cubans did it...
What does that have to do with 1898? Don't think the US can do that with airplanes. And frankly I'll need to ask for a reliable source on your Cold War claim as well, since it sound more like 911 conspiracy crap.
 
What does that have to do with 1898? Don't think the US can do that with airplanes. And frankly I'll need to ask for a reliable source on your Cold War claim as well, since it sound more like 911 conspiracy crap.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

Point is that if elements of the US government are perfectly willing to kill their own citizens to get a war,they would jump at the chance trying to justify a war without actually killing their own citizens.
 
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Saphroneth

Banned
I doubt that the Maine would be the causus belli if it blew up elsewhere; warships do that. (I think the USA was fortunate to lose only one battleship to spontaneous disassembly) Britain lost some, Japan lost Mutsu in World War II, Italy lost one in World War I, and I know that others blew up. That said, somene would find another reason for war...

Harbour explosions were quite common, yes - one suspects the US was saved partly due to their navy being quite small.
Other such ships lost: Bulwark Natal Vanguard Iena Liberte Mikasa Mutsu. (The Germans apparently were better at preventing it.)

ED: full list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ships_sunk_by_non-combat_internal_explosions
 
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Harbour explosions were quite common, yes - one suspects the US was saved partly due to their navy being quite small.
Other such ships lost: Bulwark Natal Vanguard Iena Liberte Mikasa Mutsu. (The Germans apparently were better at preventing it.)

ED: full list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ships_sunk_by_non-combat_internal_explosions

My understanding is that unti the 1890's the German propellant was even more prone to spontaneous explosion than those used by the other powers. They had a bigger problem earlier, so they corrected it and ended up with a safer propellant than everyone else.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
My understanding is that unti the 1890's the German propellant was even more prone to spontaneous explosion than those used by the other powers. They had a bigger problem earlier, so they corrected it and ended up with a safer propellant than everyone else.
Well, they did have not as much navy in those days.
 
Well, they did have not as much navy in those days.
Indeed. I suspect that's why they got away with dodgy propellant without having any actual ship losses to it. I would also assume that the German use of cased charges in their later naval guns was a significant factor in preventing detonation.
 
With the USS Maine not being the main reason for war, the USA would probably send other naval units to Havana Harbor, tensions would rise between USA and Spain and with a press clamoring for action it still might lead to the Spanish-American War but a little later.

Germany had an eye at expanding in the Pacific at Spain's expense. If the USA and Spain do not go to war in the spring/summer of 1898, it may be likely that the Philippines and Guam wind up in German hands only to wind up Japanese in WWI. WWII still occurs, may be same as OTL. USA does not have Philippines or Guam, reinforces Wake to defend against invasion.

In the Caribbean,
So USA might pressure Spain for Cuban Independence. Without Cuba, Spain may actually sell Puerto Rico to the USA.

USA would still have growing international influence.
 
I've always heard it as 'Waters' and 'soil' but enough as this is not English 101 but Althist, I apologize for being nitpicky .

I do agree with hzn5pk that different ships would be sent and rev up the conflict til it boiled over.

In one timeline I am writing The Maine's problems are discovered and its sister ship the USS Texas is sent in its stead. It is fired upon, seemingly by the Spanish, the Texas returns fire, and then the Spanish forts open up on the US boat. Yellow Journalists start writing about the 'Alamo on the High Seas' and war soon ensues.

Many of the powers that be wanted a war in Cuba, they got it, and for a short time Cuba. They just needed a reason and one would turn up eventually.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Actually, IIRC the US only had one really good battleship at this point. Lose that one to an explosion instead and the naval war might be less one sided...
 

Saphroneth

Banned
To elaborate on this point.


The ships in the US Navy as they began to build up their battlefleet were not very good. A lot of them had some considerable flaws related to a combination of lack of experience (the US had taken a twenty year hiatus in capital ship building) and some frankly odd design choices.

So the Maine and the Texas were battleships or ACRs of an earlier era. They're built from the days of the Colossus or the like, not a Trafalgar or Admiral, and so their crossdeck firing capacity is pretty low.
The Indiana class were even worse, and the reason is their turret balance which was not good in the slightest. If they trained the guns over to one side they heeled by about ten degrees (the turrets were not properly balanced).
The Iowa, OTOH, was a reasonbly good design in functional terms - her flaws are mainly related to problems engaging other battleships, and she scored a disproportionate percentage of the gun hits by US battleships in the main engagement of the US battle line. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that, absent her (i.e. if she's the one to explode) the Spanish fleet might in some cases break out to sea successfully.

That's about the most I can see the war changing, though, if it takes place - the USN is not a first-class navy at the time but the Spanish are far worse. (Sand-filled shells, ISTR, were a major feature!)
 

CaliGuy

Banned
With the USS Maine not being the main reason for war, the USA would probably send other naval units to Havana Harbor, tensions would rise between USA and Spain and with a press clamoring for action it still might lead to the Spanish-American War but a little later.

Germany had an eye at expanding in the Pacific at Spain's expense. If the USA and Spain do not go to war in the spring/summer of 1898, it may be likely that the Philippines and Guam wind up in German hands only to wind up Japanese in WWI. WWII still occurs, may be same as OTL. USA does not have Philippines or Guam, reinforces Wake to defend against invasion.

In the Caribbean,
So USA might pressure Spain for Cuban Independence. Without Cuba, Spain may actually sell Puerto Rico to the USA.

USA would still have growing international influence.
So, could we actually see a German-U.S. alliance against Spain in 1898 in this TL?
 
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