The U.S. enters WWI but refuses to send troops to Europe

BlondieBC

Banned
Very interesting!

Also, just how important was Amiens strategically in 1918? (Indeed, I have heard that Ludendorff didn't have clearly defined strategic goals for the Michael Offensive before deciding on capturing Amiens!)

Cuts the logistical supply lines in half. BEF is split from main French Army.
 
One result is that the US has little or no influence on the eventual peace treaty and is thought a nation too cowardly to fight. Britain and France still win the war. Spring offensive might get a little further but still come to a halt when the Germans reach the allied supply depots and realise how much better supplied the allies are than themselves. Austro Hungary and the Ottomans still collapse. The war may last until spring 1919 but no longer as by then Germany is fighting alone and starving at home due to the blockade. The Russian Civil war means they can't use Russia as a source of supply. If Britain needs more men they'll get them in India. They'll just widen their recruiting outside of the traditional martial races.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
One result is that the US has little or no influence on the eventual peace treaty and is thought a nation too cowardly to fight. Britain and France still win the war. Spring offensive might get a little further but still come to a halt when the Germans reach the allied supply depots and realise how much better supplied the allies are than themselves. Austro Hungary and the Ottomans still collapse. The war may last until spring 1919 but no longer as by then Germany is fighting alone and starving at home due to the blockade. The Russian Civil war means they can't use Russia as a source of supply. If Britain needs more men they'll get them in India. They'll just widen their recruiting outside of the traditional martial races.
Would there be the political will in Britain and France for continuing the war up to the point of final victory in this TL, though?
 
Yes, too much had been sacrificed to accept anything else as long as there was a chance of victory. Also they wouldn't believe that the US would enter the war but not fight, they would think that the US would be forced to send troops because the people would in the end demand it. By the time it became clear that this wouldn't happen the crisis would have passed.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Yes, too much had been sacrificed to accept anything else as long as there was a chance of victory. Also they wouldn't believe that the US would enter the war but not fight, they would think that the US would be forced to send troops because the people would in the end demand it. By the time it became clear that this wouldn't happen the crisis would have passed.
Would the American people have demanded this, though? After all, Wilson won in 1916 on a slogan of "He kept us out of war"!
 

CalBear

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Well France may come out of the war financially better off.

They had to borrow money from USA to buy arms to gift to the Americans in otl. It will be different here.
France will likely come out defeated.

The U.S. was the last real cornucopia of manpower available. France had hit rock bottom and begun to drill, the UK wasn't far behind. The addition of 500,000 combat troops, green or not, kept the entire Front from collapsing. It wasn't that U.S. troops were superior, they weren't, they were wet behind the ears, but they added so much mass tothe Entente's frontage that they altered the balance.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
France will likely come out defeated.

The U.S. was the last real cornucopia of manpower available. France had hit rock bottom and begun to drill, the UK wasn't far behind. The addition of 500,000 combat troops, green or not, kept the entire Front from collapsing. It wasn't that U.S. troops were superior, they weren't, they were wet behind the ears, but they added so much mass tothe Entente's frontage that they altered the balance.
Are you suggesting that U.S. troops were crucial to the failure of the 1918 German Offensive?

Also, wasn't Germany running out of reserves during this time as well?
 
Not enough to throw in the towel. By the time it becomes absolutely clear that no US Army is coming the French Army will have sorted itself out after the mutinies, Passchendaele will be winding down and the plans for Cambrai in place. That battle proves the German line can be broken. The Germans can't sustain their 1918 Spring offensive and overrunning the allied supply dumps seriously damaged their troops morale. Once the offensive peters out the Germans have, whether they realise it or not lost the war. The war may last a little longer but by Spring 1919 it's over. The blockade will have starved the Germans out, and the Germans can't break the blockade. Wilson will have no influence at Versailles.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Not enough to throw in the towel. By the time it becomes absolutely clear that no US Army is coming the French Army will have sorted itself out after the mutinies, Passchendaele will be winding down and the plans for Cambrai in place. That battle proves the German line can be broken. The Germans can't sustain their 1918 Spring offensive and overrunning the allied supply dumps seriously damaged their troops morale. Once the offensive peters out the Germans have, whether they realise it or not lost the war. The war may last a little longer but by Spring 1919 it's over. The blockade will have starved the Germans out, and the Germans can't break the blockade. Wilson will have no influence at Versailles.
Couldn't the lack of U.S. troops in Europe have strengthened German morale in this TL, though?

Also, could Germany try importing food from the East if the war lasts longer?
 

trajen777

Banned
Germany wins.
1. The troops were critical in stopping the German offensive Without them then the Allies lose.
2. With out the USA 1 mm troops in France then the French and Brit panic would have been much greater in that there was not 1 mm troops to fall back on
3. With out the USA 1 mm troop morale in the French and Brit army would have been much worse, no allied troops, Russia out of war, German troops makeing the largest advances in a couple of weeks what the Allies had not done in years.
4.
 

trajen777

Banned
Not enough to throw in the towel. By the time it becomes absolutely clear that no US Army is coming the French Army will have sorted itself out after the mutinies, Passchendaele will be winding down and the plans for Cambrai in place. That battle proves the German line can be broken. The Germans can't sustain their 1918 Spring offensive and overrunning the allied supply dumps seriously damaged their troops morale. Once the offensive peters out the Germans have, whether they realise it or not lost the war. The war may last a little longer but by Spring 1919 it's over. The blockade will have starved the Germans out, and the Germans can't break the blockade. Wilson will have no influence at Versailles.

The German offensive was stopped by the USA troops. Ive read many books on the issue and take the Americans out of the line, not in reserve, and not the moral of the USA millions of troops coming in and you have a very bad situation for the Allies. With Russia out, Romania out , and Italy tottering (allied troops would have to come back to France) you would have better food coming to Germany. The main food isses in Germany was actually in 1917 (turnip winter), and things were starting to improve. The next offensive would have been towards Amiens which if taken it would have made it impossible for the British to have stayed in their positions. Actually plans were in place for them to withdraw to the channel.

So ultimately a peace with western front back in place (no winner) -- Germany loses their colonies, most likely reduces their fleet, and BL in place
 
If there were no US troops in France then Lloyd George would not have been playing politics by keeping troops in Britain to p off Haig. The German offensive was stopped because they could not supply their troops. They were so badly off that the Germans were reduced to using paper bandages, and when their troops found allied supply dumps they lost their discipline and abandoned the attacks to loot food and drink.
 

CalBear

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Are you suggesting that U.S. troops were crucial to the failure of the 1918 German Offensive?

Also, wasn't Germany running out of reserves during this time as well?
U.S. troops allowed the British and especially the French to extend forces that would not have otherwise been available while also acting a critical replacements for French unit rendered Hors de combat trying to stop the offensive.

The 26th ID was in the lines, in a quiet sector, but still in a position previously held by French forces, by February. The 2nd ID with the attached 4th Marine Brigade (including 5th Regiment. 2/5!) was heavily engaged in Belleau Wood from June 1 onward. No 2nd ID to plug the 10 km gap the German attack blew through the French lines and Belleau Wood could end up very different. 3rd ID put 85,000 U.S. troops under its overall command into the 2nd Battle of the Marne.

Did American troops WIN the war? No. Not at all. Did they play a major, perhaps even decisive role in ensuring the Entente didn't LOSE? IMO that argument can and should be made.
 
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BlondieBC

Banned
OK.

Also, I am presuming that Britain and France wouldn't be able to quickly build a new railroad to connect their armies, correct?

Well, they would rebuild. Seem like the UK built a couple of railroads at the pace of a mile or two per day. But, the cutting of the line causes massive logistical issues, and seems like there was a major depot of supplies near by. Spring offensive goes a lot better. I guess a lot depends on how well the British and French commanders handle the emergency.
 
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