I would think that you are far too optimistic about the future. Hungary will probably be Hungary,they will most likely act just like Hungary(no shit) did when they were in a union with the Austrians. The Hungarian nobility will most likely stir up trouble. There is also the matter of religion. Either the Greeks or the Hungarians will stir up trouble if their side of the religion is not favoured,and a union of churches would be very difficult. There will be a lengthy period of instability in the empire.
The Turul on the Bosporus
- Thread starter mitfrc
- Start date
I'm not sure about this. The Hungarian Nobility acted not because they disliked the Austrians, but because they the Habsburgs meddle with internal matters and the rights of the nobility. But this right weren't given up to this point. No Golden Bull of 1222, no laws of 1351, no right to elect king, hell even the Diet isn't more at this point then law seeing days (yes that was it's official name) and as that implies the nobility had seen the laws and not voted on them. The Habsburgs had problems with Hungary because then there was hundred years old tradition that gave the nobility power, thus it was impossible to enact an absolute monarchy. Here such tradition doesn't exist and isn't very likely to emerge as the House of Árpád won't loose from it's power in the 13th century, allowing the nobility to strengthen itself.
trajen777
Banned
I think the ref to `1900 Hungarians is a bit far, however their is one common thread -- and that is the greed of the magnets. This was pretty common everywhere, and if you take the English (always prob there) plan to make the magnets supportive by giving them land and titles (income ) in the Byz portion of the empire (the areas of reconquest ) this would tie them tighter to the empire. The issue will always be if you have a strong king then they can keep it together, when weak then you have issues.
However if you take Anatolia, then the lands not on the borders will prosper. If you keep Manuel's fleet in being then you will keep the Italians at bay. The plan in the TL is to expand the local army (Hungarian troops as proinia ) in Anatolia.
The great problem that existed with the Alexis, John, and Manuel, was a to conservative approach to the Empires situation. They kept the army small, focused on a land bridge across Anatolia, focused on conquering Antioch, and keeping a small navy. IN this TL (even in the short term (Bela rule) ) you have a significant additional resources of Hungry to conquer Anatolia. Take Anatolia and you have a richer coastal region (no raids), additional land for wealth (central highlands / hard country to produce good Cav troops) and a real border region (Taurus mts) which can be defended. So even if Hungry falls away in the future you now have a stable Empire of resources and troops.
Narrative updates on a 10-year cycle with an average of about 12 - 15 discrete narrative blocks per 10 years, with each ten years ending in the posting of an updated map and some intercalendary commentary by me like I'm doing right now--I may add in excerpts of "historical" documents as well. Editing the first map is the hardest part; the updates will come faster after that. I'm also moving to a new house or else I'd have already finished the second update. The intention however is that nothing is posted which is out of universe except for comments like this one by me.
I'm loving this, Bela-Alexios is best Alexios (I went there!)
I look forward to seeing whether or not this establishes a truly cross-Danube Empire, as that'll make the south east of Europe a major economic powerhouse in a way that failed to persist IOTL.
Any chance we can get some maps?
I look forward to seeing whether or not this establishes a truly cross-Danube Empire, as that'll make the south east of Europe a major economic powerhouse in a way that failed to persist IOTL.
Any chance we can get some maps?
Very interesting...I'll be looking forward to this thread with great interest.
Edit. About the future situation and/or dynastic status in Hungary and its links with the Empire... I think that's an option, perhaps, would be similar to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, but for logistical and military reasons besides of different geopolitical interest that in Hungary would be mainly, in the HRE, the central Europe and north Balkans and for the Byzantine around the Black Sea coasts, Greece, Anatolia, the Caucasus and the Middle East (Mesopotamia, Coele-Syria and the Holy land). Besides that in the future, perhaps would include Egypt, too, but for logistical and military reasons I think that would be best kept both ruled separate but of course under the same dynasty and with a strong alliance.
Edit. About the future situation and/or dynastic status in Hungary and its links with the Empire... I think that's an option, perhaps, would be similar to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, but for logistical and military reasons besides of different geopolitical interest that in Hungary would be mainly, in the HRE, the central Europe and north Balkans and for the Byzantine around the Black Sea coasts, Greece, Anatolia, the Caucasus and the Middle East (Mesopotamia, Coele-Syria and the Holy land). Besides that in the future, perhaps would include Egypt, too, but for logistical and military reasons I think that would be best kept both ruled separate but of course under the same dynasty and with a strong alliance.
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Ooh, what if one of the Mongol successor states converts to Christianity and also joins the Roman-Hungarian personal union...
1178 Status Map
And, with many apologies for the delay, here is the 1178 map. It will go much faster now that this one is done, and that I'm moved into my new home. Please comment and critique, I'm happy to make edits. It's based partially on the 1135 and 1200 maps, and about 15 other maps of the 12th century and some written sources.
Probably next weekend.
I think the hardest part of this was deciding the exact range of Byzantine/Serbian control and the Bosnia situation. The POD locks the border between Hungary and Byzantium favourably to Byzantium though, perhaps as favourably as it ever got. But there are other options for Hungarian expansionism in the Union. I also decided that the early 1170s Byzantine garrison in Ancona merited colouring it purple.
Central Anatolia is circled gray because immediately after the reconquest it is partially settled by Hungarian Lords' second sons held under Byzantine not-really-feudalism land tenure and the Imperial administration has by no means re-established regular order.
New Hampshire
Banned
Great start. I'd like to see a butterflied Mongol Invasion, a more powerful Denmark, and a united Iberia.
Honestly, the Mongols are overrated.
For one thing, the myth that the death of Ogedei was the only reason they didn't overrun Europe needs to die in a fire. As that myth is about as likely as Ogedei becoming Immortal Khan-Emperor Ogedei and ruling over the globe.
As my boyfriend put in better terms than I can:
So, honestly, I'd love to see a Roman-Mongol clash.
For one thing, the myth that the death of Ogedei was the only reason they didn't overrun Europe needs to die in a fire. As that myth is about as likely as Ogedei becoming Immortal Khan-Emperor Ogedei and ruling over the globe.
As my boyfriend put in better terms than I can:
So, honestly, I'd love to see a Roman-Mongol clash.
I'd have to agree - and with the Romans specifically, they are, by this point, the leading European Masters of fighting horse-archer core armies. They've fought the Turks, the Avars, the Huns, you name a group that used horse-archers, the Romans fought them. To the point that the top-notch, classic Byzantine Unit? A BLOODY HORSE ARCHER?!
Plus, throw in Roman Engineering and you've basically got the nation with the best chance to turn them back.
Seriously, if the Romans wanted to, they'd could quite handily fight the Mongols, and push back against them. They control the sea, and they can focus on a combination of Light and Heavy horse archer based forces, with forces designed for occupying and building fortifications to essentially push the Mongols back frontier by frontier. Danube->Pruth->Etc.
The Vietnamese and Japanese both ended up doing very well against the Mongols.
And anyone who brings up that "ONLY 'CUZ STORMS IN JAPAN"? I will beat you with ten history textbooks.
Because they arrived, and continually lost until the final day where they decided to retreat and then their ships were destroyed in a storm.
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