The Tudor's Hydra - What if Henry VIII had practiced polygamy?

[CaesarKhan]

What if, rather than throwing the realm into turmoil and starting the English Reformation, Henry VIII had instead opted for polygamy rather than divorce? By taking a second wife (if not more), while staying married to Catherine and maintaining his support of both her and the Princess Mary, I believe he would have had much more support - albeit with a grumble - and would have strayed less from Catholicism, and thus his allies, going forward in the long run.

I could see any plural marriages being morganatic, as wasn't unheard of in Germany, meaning neither the bride nor any children of the marriage have a claim on the bridegroom's succession rights, titles, precedence, or entailed property; Though, the children are considered legitimate for all other purposes and the prohibition against bigamy applies. This would be the best of both worlds for Henry - one, legally superior wife while having the opportunity to father many more children, and if needs be he would have a much easier time legitimising them down the line than he would, say, with Henry FitzRoy.

Below, some citations and quotes from other writings on the matter, showing that it was a much more intensely considered thing than most realise;

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On Philip of Hesse and his second, morganatic marriage, from the book "The Western Case for Monogamy Over Polygamy", by John Witte

Philip thus asked Martin Bucer (1491-1551), a leading Protestant reformer from Strasbourg and a close friend of Luther and John Calvin (1509-1564), to bless this polygamous arrangement. Bucer instead counseled Philip to divorce his first wife and then remarry. Divorce was licit if for no other reason than Philip's own repeated and fully confessed adultery. But Philip did not want to risk public revelation of his adultery, a capital crime in his day, and a source of deep public shame and scandal if revealed. He preferred to keep and support his first wife and their children, and to marry and support a second wife and family as well, which he had ample financial means to do. This, Philip argued, was in accord with the biblical examples of David, Solomon, and the other ancient kings. It also followed the biblical law of Deuteronomy 21:15 which said that "if a man has two wives, the one loved, the other disliked," he has to support both wives and both sets of children. I have one wife Christina whom I loathe," said Philip. I have another woman Margaret whom I love and desire to marry. Isn't it better for me to marry Margaret, too, rather than commit adultery with her or stage a fraudulent divorce or annulment from Christina? "I desire the means allowed by God to be used to remedy this condition," namely taking a second wife, Philip wrote to Bucer. After all:

"God allowed the Fathers in the Old Testament times - Abraham, Jacob, David, etc. who believed in the same Christ as we, to have more than one wife. Nor was this forbidden by Christ or the apostles in the New Testament. In the Acts of the Apostles, this prohibition is not found, and Paul expressly confines only bishops and ministers to one wife.... Remember also the counsel which Luther and Melanchthon gave Henry VIII of England to the effect that he should not send away his present wife, but rather-if the necessity of the kingdom required (a) male heir to take another. I wish to have a second wife, because God forbids adultery and permitted polygamy."​

And then, playing his final cards, Philip threatened that, if Bucer would not bless this arrangement, he would take his case to the Holy Roman Emperor, perhaps taking the important Lutheran territory of Hesse back to Catholicism in so doing. Or he might just change the law of Hesse to allow for polygamy, risking a dangerous confrontation with the emperor, who in 1532 had just made polygamy a capital crime in the entire Holy Roman Empire, which included Hesse.

A deeply troubled Bucer took the case to Luther and Melanchthon in Wittenberg for their counsel. Within ten days, these three theologians, working with a group of fellow Lutheran theologians in Hesse, crafted a four-page response, very reluctantly agreeing to Philip's bigamy proposal.

On Henry VIII and his desire to divorce Catherine, from the blog "Beggars All: Reformation & Apologetics"

There is a curious tendency among some English historians, by no means confined to Roman Catholics, not only to preserve a conspiratorial silence about the Pope's genuine conviction but to follow up their silence about the Pope with a disgusted exposure of so 'typically Lutheran' an immorality.

Since this procedure has been chosen even by outstanding writers who are rightly regarded as authorities, it is only natural that the falsity should have been repeated, probably often in perfect innocence, by lesser writers.

Monogamy was the normal thing among Christians and nobody in Henry VIII's time, with the exception of the Anabaptists of Munster (1534), denied its normality. Neither the Pope nor Luther regarded bigamy as desideratum; but both of them, and not they alone, regarded it as the lesser evil compared with divorce.

Erasmus of Rotterdam gave, quite casually, the same advice. He was drawn into Henry's affair in 1526 when Catherine requested of him, through her chamberlain Lord Mountjoy, that he should come to her aid by writing in her favour. The result was the book Matrimonii Christiani Institutio in which the problems of divorce and impediments are discussed at length; the book maintains that a marriage with a deceased brother's wife does not, as such, present a cause for nullification. During 1527 Erasmus was in correspondence with Vives and the King's divorce affair was being discussed. On September 2nd Erasmus wrote: 'Far be it from me to mix in the affair of Jupiter and Juno, particularly as I know little about it. But I should prefer that he should take two Junos rather than put away one.'

The mere fact that the Pope, Luther and Erasmus considered bigamy to be the obvious preferable solution indicates clearly that this idea, so alien and unacceptable to the modern mind, was a perfectly reasonable reaction at the time. Among those who had no scruples were also, for instance, the French ambassador, the King of France (who in April 1532 said to Chapuys that the King should go ahead and marry the lady of his choice as Louis XII had done in 1499; again in January 1533 he advised Henry, through du Bellay, that he should marry Anne without hesitation and afterwards defend his cause) and Lord Wiltshire.

 

[Dragonboy]

That seems like a dream come true for Henry, who would the women be?

 

[CaesarKhan]

That seems like a dream come true for Henry, who would the women be?

I think it depends on when he decides to persue it. The earliest realistic in my mind is probably 1518-1519, as Catherine goes into menopause it becomes clear their marraige is now 'useless', and Elizabeth Blount subsequently falls pregnant with a boy. Though as seen in my quote, Erasmus (whom Henry seemed quite fond of) put the idea forward himself in 1526-1527, in which case it would probably be Mary or Anne Boleyn... perhaps even both.

 

[Dragonboy]

I think it depends on when he decides to persue it. The earliest realistic in my mind is probably 1518-1519, as Catherine goes into menopause it becomes clear their marraige is now 'useless', and Elizabeth Blount subsequently falls pregnant with a boy. Though as seen in my quote, Erasmus (who Henry seemed quite fond of) put the idea forward himself in 1526-1527, in which case it would probably be Mary or Anne Boleyn... perhaps even both.

Sweet.

But i think Henry will still dote on fitzroy, he's his first son to survibe the craddle after all.

 

[PeterEzgo]

Wasn't there a german lord advocating for protestant bigamy in the same time period? Maybe Henry uses the same arguments.

 

[Raferty]

There was I believe an attempt after the 30 Years War to permit polygamy in some devastated regions

But it probably wouldn't fly for Henry unless there was an English tradition of something of the sort in the late Anglo Saxon era, which would be revived as part of the Anglican Church

 

[CaesarKhan]

Wasn't there a german lord advocating for protestant bigamy in the same time period? Maybe Henry uses the same arguments.

Philip of Hesse, indeed, which I used in my quotes as a contemporary example

There was I believe an attempt after the 30 Years War to permit polygamy in some devastated regions

I've heard the same about the 30YW, and that bigamy did indeed become a bigger problem for authorities.

But it probably wouldn't fly for Henry unless there was an English tradition of something of the sort in the late Anglo Saxon era, which would be revived as part of the Anglican Church

In this world I'm positing that there is no Anglican church, at least not in a recognisable real world sense. Henry would argue for exceptions to bigamy, which there is a very real argument to be made for using scripture, as opposed to divorce, which is far more of a case-by-case, Pope-by-Pope basis. With other's trying the same in Germany, while Henry's voice would probably be the loudest, it wouldn't be alone.

 

[Lalli]

Scenario is nearby ASB. Church and people wouldn't accept that. Henry VIII would be accused being closet Muslim and might be deposed/assassinated. He could pick lot of public mistresses. Only minor issue of course is that his children probably wouldn't inherit.

And polygamy not seem being way to create stable succession system.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Church and people wouldn't accept that

OP's suggesting Henry go with the flow along with Philip of Hesse and the like

 

[Avrorrange]

Scenario is nearby ASB. Church and people wouldn't accept that. Henry VIII would be accused being closet Muslim and might be deposed/assassinated. He could pick lot of public mistresses. Only minor issue of course is that his children probably wouldn't inherit.

And polygamy not seem being way to create stable succession system.

I strongly doubt he would be deposed. He already did all kinds of dodgy shit including declaring himself the Pope of England. Why would declaring himself eligible to marry more women open him up for deposition? The Church definitely would fight him though, and I think the result would be Anglican Church with polygamy.

 

[FalconHonour]

Sweet.

But i think Henry will still dote on fitzroy, he's his first son to survibe the craddle after all.

Except, if we're allowing Henry to marry Bessie Blount, he wouldn't be Fitzroy here, he'd be Henry, Duke of Cornwall (and possibly Prince of Wales) Which changes *everything*, because, with a son in the nursery during the 1520s, Henry is going to be a lot more relaxed than he was OTL.

 

[Lalli]

I strongly doubt he would be deposed. He already did all kinds of dodgy shit including declaring himself the Pope of England. Why would declaring himself eligible to marry more women open him up for deposition? The Church definitely would fight him though, and I think the result would be Anglican Church with polygamy.

It is different thing rise against Rome but I think that it would be bit too far declaring polgamy being completely acceptable. Yes, Mormons tried that and even they dropped that relatively quickly.

 

[Avrorrange]

It is different thing rise against Rome but I think that it would be bit too far declaring polgamy being completely acceptable. Yes, Mormons tried that and even they dropped that relatively quickly.

Declaring Henry Pope was tantamount to letting him run the Church however he wanted.

 

[kholieken]

Declaring Henry Pope was tantamount to letting him run the Church however he wanted.

That not true. Look at debate and infighting about various position of Church of England. CoE eventually removes several Kings.

 

[Navigator]

What if, rather than throwing the realm into turmoil and starting the English Reformation, Henry VIII had instead opted for polygamy rather than divorce?

OK, plausible so far but....

I could see any plural marriages being morganatic, as wasn't unheard of in Germany, meaning neither the bride nor any children of the marriage have a claim on the bridegroom's succession rights, titles, precedence, or entailed property;

....if they can't inherit, then what's the point?

 

[ArtosStark]

There was I believe an attempt after the 30 Years War to permit polygamy in some devastated regions

But it probably wouldn't fly for Henry unless there was an English tradition of something of the sort in the late Anglo Saxon era, which would be revived as part of the Anglican Church

There sort of was, but I don’t think it would help you here. When the church converted the Anglo-Saxons they tended not to be too sticky on the exact theological details for the time being. This meant that hand-fasting was still common for some time after. It was relatively common for, particularly a noble, to have a “church wife” with the marriage being blessed by the church and also have at least one more wife who he wedded by hand-fasting outside of church blessing. The Church and culture generally looked the other way, but did not condone the practice.

So, polygamy but not one legally recognized by the church. And, I believe it had largely died out by the late Anglo-Saxon period. So probably not a lot of help to HVIII.

 

[Raferty]

There sort of was, but I don’t think it would help you here. When the church converted the Anglo-Saxons they tended not to be too sticky on the exact theological details for the time being. This meant that hand-fasting was still common for some time after. It was relatively common for, particularly a noble, to have a “church wife” with the marriage being blessed by the church and also have at least one more wife who he wedded by hand-fasting outside of church blessing. The Church and culture generally looked the other way, but did not condone the practice.

So, polygamy but not one legally recognized by the church. And, I believe it had largely died out by the late Anglo-Saxon period. So probably not a lot of help to HVIII.

That's what I meant - by the mid 11th century or so.

The idea of a Danish Law wife was done by the Normans for a while as well.

If it was something that Henry could point to as part of Tudor propaganda about them being the "indigenous" dynasty, that they were restoring true Anglo Saxon ways to the land oppressed by the Norman yoke, etc, it could fly in the creation of the Anglican Church. I think the best way for this to happen would be for Harold Godwinson to have multiple wives simultaneously and for this to be a common practice among the nobility.

I think the issue is that for all his breaking with Rome, Henry was religiously speaking something of a conservative for the most part, and favored an approach to the establishment of the Church of England that hewed closer to Catholic practice than many reformers wanted, and his most radical steps came only when immediate prerogatives of state interfered

 

[Victoria]

There was I believe an attempt after the 30 Years War to permit polygamy in some devastated regions

But it probably wouldn't fly for Henry unless there was an English tradition of something of the sort in the late Anglo Saxon era, which would be revived as part of the Anglican Church

There sort of was, but I don’t think it would help you here. When the church converted the Anglo-Saxons they tended not to be too sticky on the exact theological details for the time being. This meant that hand-fasting was still common for some time after. It was relatively common for, particularly a noble, to have a “church wife” with the marriage being blessed by the church and also have at least one more wife who he wedded by hand-fasting outside of church blessing. The Church and culture generally looked the other way, but did not condone the practice.

King Canute had two wives, Aelfgifu of Northampton and Emma of Normandy, and while Emma was the wife recognized by the church they were both queens (Aelfgifu was even regent of Norway) and sons from both marriages were able to inherit. So there's a historical precedent that Henry can cite.

 

[ArtosStark]

King Canute had two wives, Aelfgifu of Northampton and Emma of Normandy, and while Emma was the wife recognized by the church they were both queens (Aelfgifu was even regent of Norway) and sons from both marriages were able to inherit. So there's a historical precedent that Henry can cite.

Historical but not Canon. Only one marriage was blessed by the church. If Henry wants the Church to look the other way while he “marries” a mistress and calls her queen that would be a good precedent. But if he wants a second marriage that is legal (which by this time means church recognized) and imparts all the benefits thereof, that example is not going to be acceptable to church leadership.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

But if he wants a second marriage that is legal (which by this time means church recognized) and imparts all the benefits thereof, that example is not going to be acceptable to church leadership.

If polygamous relationships become more accepted or legalized in secular society, it might create a tension between the Church's teachings and the lived realities of its members. This tension could prompt a reevaluation of the Church's position and a potential shift towards accepting polygamy. Or perhaps if there were significant ecumenical efforts to find common ground and promote unity among different faith traditions, it might lead to a reexamination of the Church's teachings on marriage and potentially open the door to the acceptance of polygamy.