Tudor Rose over Britannia Chapter 1
Summer of 1512

Edmund knelt down on his knees in prayer, alongside his sister Mary and his mother Queen Elizabeth. All three of them were praying for the rapid recovery of their king Henry VII, the man who won at Bosworth Field and who inaugurated the Tudor dynasty. But even though they tried to deny it, they all knew that the end was near for him. Their mother feared losing her husband while Mary and Edmund were afraid of losing their father, even though they all knew that death was a natural part of life and nobody was supposed to live forever. Why did God not grant father long life like Methuselah?

Mary’s and Edmund’s older brother, Henry, the Prince of Wales, was at the moment at Greenwich Palace with his betrothed, while both Mary and Edmund remained at Eltham Palace. Edmund was still twelve years old despite being a prince and senior peer of the realm, so Eltham Palace would be his home until he reached his majority. As for Mary, their father was busy trying to find matches for her since she was marriageable, but the process had stalled since his health took a permanent turn for the worse after Christmastide. As such, Henry had to take on more duties in their father’s place while their mother did their best to keep the court lively.

“Are you all right, Ned?” Elizabeth asked her youngest son with concern. “You have been whispering to yourself too quickly.”

Edmund looked at his mother with apprehension. “I… I…”

“It is all right, Ned. You can tell me,” Elizabeth reassured her son.

“I am scared, mother,” Edmund admitted.

“Because your father will die?” Elizabeth knew already.

“I do not want him to die.” Even though he was not close to his father and even Henry personally, Edmund would never wish harm on them both.

“I know.” Elizabeth patted her son’s head. “But if it is his time, then we must accept it. We cannot defy what God has already decided for us.”

“But why do we pray then, if that is true?” Mary asked.

“If God will not make our king better, then we must pray for his soul once he departs to heaven, just as we did for Lady Margaret.”

Edmund was honestly frightened of his grandmother, the woman who played a role in the Tudors’ rise to power. Even though she was warm to him, there was something about her that made him feel distant. It was only one year since her death and everyone suspected that her dying was what drove the king to melancholy.

“And once he dies, Ned, do you know your duty?” Elizabeth asked her youngest son.

Edmund knew that his brother and his betrothed were soon to be doing their duty, as their marriage was to take place soon and hopefully to be followed by many sons. As Edmund was currently second-in-line to the English throne, he would have to marry and produce heirs of his own. Most importantly, he would have to support his older brother who would become the next king, just like he did when Arthur died.

“I do, mother,” Edmund nodded solemnly.

“Very good.” Elizabeth kissed the top of his head. “And you, Mary, do you also know your duty?”

“I do, mother,” Mary also affirmed.

After they finished their prayers, Elizabeth took her two youngest children on a walk through the gardens of Eltham Palace in an effort to divert their attention from the gloominess that was soon to overcome them all.

Edmund remembered when Lady Margaret died and there was a grand funeral procession in London, and he remembered being overwhelmed by the whole set of circumstances, especially when the courtiers referred to him through a variety of addresses such as “Your Grace,” “Lord Somerset,” or “Your Highness.” Already, some families like the Cliffords, the Greys, and his Courtenay cousins were trying to approach him in an effort to marry him to one of their daughters, but his mother thankfully told them all to leave him alone as they were in mourning and he was too young to make such a decision. Henry also told them to get away from his brother, which surprised Edmund since they were not close. Still, I have him to thank for getting those lords away from approaching me with their daughters.

However, their walk through the gardens was cut short when they were approached by Thomas Ruthall, Secretary of State and Bishop of Durham, along with members of the royal yeomanry. “Your Graces,” Thomas Ruthall bowed his head to the three members of the king’s family.

“Your Eminence,” Queen Elizabeth answered.

“I have come here to bring you all to Richmond Palace, on behalf of the king and the Prince of Wales.”

Elizabeth stiffened. “It is time, is it not?”

“I am afraid it is, my queen.”

Both Mary and Edmund knew what they were talking about. Preparing themselves, they and their mother gathered their servants and other members of their household before they rode to Richmond Palace. Edmund could only await what was to come after their father’s death, for it would be a new world with him gone, for better and worse.

Upon their arrival, they saw Henry and his betrothed Eleanor already awaiting them. Henry kissed the cheeks of his mother and his sister while Eleanor embraced her soon-to-be mother-in-law and sister-in-law. Edmund was stunned when Henry pulled him into a hug. “Dear Ned, it is so good to see you,” he said.

Edmund slowly returned the hug. “It is good to see you too, Your Highness.”

Henry sighed heavily. “Please, call me Harry. I am your brother after all.”

“Harry.” Edmund was quick to comply.

Henry saw that his young brother was still hesitant, but he was not going to push him. Eleanor came to Edmund and hugged him also. “Hello, Ned.”

Edmund was confused, as he was also not close to Eleanor despite them being close in age. “Hello… Your Highness.”

Eleanor pinched his cheek. “How many times did I tell you that you can call me Ellie? We are to be family soon.” She still retained her Flemish brogue.

“Please excuse my son,” Elizabeth stepped in. “This is all very overwhelming for him and it must be hard for him.”

Eleanor smiled respectfully. “Of course, Your Grace.”

Henry bobbed his head in understanding. “We have already said our goodbyes. He will want to see you all next, mother.”

“Of course.”

Edmund waited outside as his mother and Mary had their last words with his father. Edmund’s hands were trembling, but he managed to largely control it to the point where no one would be able to notice. Edmund was a prince after all.

“Your Grace.” William Warham, his father’s Lord Chancellor and Archbishop of Canterbury, stepped out of the room along with his mother and Mary. “The king will see you now.”

“Your Eminence,” Edmund addressed him while he hugged his mother and sister again. If only Margaret was here. In the place of his sister and brother-in-law in Scotland, the Scottish ambassador to the English court was also in attendance.

Edmund was led into his father’s bedchamber, where he was attended by his personal physician and other courtiers were there also. He was utterly shocked at how his father looked, as the able king that he grew up knowing was replaced by a sickly old man who was struggling onto the last seconds of his life.

“Come closer, Edmund. My eyesight is failing me.” Henry VII gestured to his youngest son and he turned to look upon him. “Even though I can barely see you, I can sense that you will become a great man.”

“Please, Your Grace. I do not need to be one, for you are a great man already.”

“Spare me that nonsense, boy. Even a blind man can see that I am not long for this world,” the dying king strongly answered. “But enough about me. Tell me about yourself, and your days at Eltham Palace.”

Edmund talked about his days training with weaponry, the art of fighting, being taught many languages, dancing, and other aspects that made up the education of a humanist. “I also spend much time studying with Anthony Browne, Edward North, and John Gates.”

“Your friends, I trust?” the king asked with interest.

“Yes, my king.”

“Please, for God’s sake, call me father. I would rather our last hours be as father and son, not as king and subject.”

“Yes… father.” Edmund had some difficulty saying that. “And yes, they are my friends.”

“Good. You will need friends, those you can trust, when you do your duties to Harry. You will be his strong right arm when the crown of England is placed atop his head.”

“I am aware of what I must do, father.”

“Are you?” the king questioned. “The crown is heavy on the head and while Harry will have to carry the burden by himself, he will need you, now more than ever. I can already sense the vultures just waiting to pick off the remains of our family.”

“Father, how can you say that? England is secure, our family is secure.”

“Not yet,” his father shook his head. “Only after Harry marries Princess Eleanor and has children, and you have your own children, can our family remain secure on the throne. You must prepare yourself, should Harry suffer an early departure from this life.”

“No, no,” Edmund answered quickly. “He is healthy, he is energetic. He will live a long life.”

“Never assume the best of things, Ned,” the king told him. “Arthur was healthy, and he was taken from us. Always be prepared, should you have to take the crown.”

Edmund was afraid to be king, but he could not say no to his father’s wishes. “I shall do as you wish, father.”

“Swear it, boy!” he raised his voice.

Edmund was startled, but he calmed down again. “I swear, father.”

“Good.” The king squeezed Edmund’s hand. “By this time tomorrow, Harry will be king. Do what God has called you to do.”

After Edmund was dismissed from his father’s bedchambers for the last time, he was taken to his rooms in Richmond Palace. He could not sleep, for it was a long night for him. All he could do was pace around his chamber, anxious for what the morning would bring. And he must have lost track of time, for morning came and he was still awake.

The door opened and in came his mother, who was just as sleepless as he was. “Ned, have not been sleeping?”

“I could not, mother.”

She nodded in understanding. “Ned… your father is dead.” Edmund closed his eyes and lowered his head in sadness, but Elizabeth walked to him and knelt down. “Come on. Let me take you to Harry, or His Grace now.”

Joined by Mary, they arrived at the presence chamber, which now had Harry seated. As one, Elizabeth, Mary, and Edmund knelt down. “Your Grace,” they said together.

Henry stood up. “Rise, please.” He kissed his mother’s and sister’s cheek once more and hugged Edmund tightly. “Ned.”

“My king,” Ned expelled thoughts of calling him by his childhood name.

“What will you do now, Ned? Go back to Eltham Palace?” Edmund could not answer right away, which Henry noticed. “It is all right, brother. You can answer by the end of the week.”

Edmund nodded gratefully. “Thank you, my king.”

Henry patted his brother’s head. “We shall speak again soon, Ned. But please, call me Harry when no one else is around.”

Edmund smiled. He thus had to prepare himself for a new world, where he was no longer just the third son of Henry VII of England. He was now Prince Edmund Tudor, Duke of Somerset and Earl of Ulster and brother of the new king.

After looking over a previous thread in which I covered Edmund Tudor, I revised it accordingly with the following changes:
-Edmund Tudor is now Duke of Somerset and Earl of Ulster
-Elizabeth of York is still alive
-Henry VII lived for three more years, since his wife surviving means that his health and personality did not take a huge negative turn
-Catherine of Aragon went back to Spain after the families (mostly Elizabeth of York) manage to reach an agreement over the dowry, while Elizabeth pays for her former daughter-in-law's household in the meantime. Henry then had his son betrothed to Eleanor of Austria, and they will marry soon

I am planning for this to be multi-chapter thread, but any comments are welcome :)
 
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Tudor Rose over Britannia family tree (1512)
Henry VII of England (1457-1512), married to Elizabeth of York (1466- )
Arthur Tudor (1486-1502), married to Catherine of Aragon (1485- )​
Margaret Tudor (1489- ), married to James IV of Scotland (1476- )​
Henry VIII of England (1491- ), betrothed to Eleanor of Austria (1498 -)​
Elizabeth Tudor (1492-1495), died young​
Mary Tudor (1496- )​
Edmund Tudor, Duke of Somerset (1499- )​
 
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Tudor Rose over Britannia Chapter 2 (Coronation)
Dressers fit Henry in ceremonial robes, while both Edmund and Lord Shrewsbury sit watching. The Lord Chamberlain, Charles Somerset otherwise known as Lord Herbert was there also, at attention. Lord Herbert was also family, as he was the illegitimate son of the last one who had his title, but Edmund was ensure of what to make of him at the moment.

“Are you comfortable, Your Grace?” Edmund had to remain formal, but the feelings of warmth were coming natural to them both.

Henry adjusted his garments, and it was clear that he wasn’t comfortable. “It is a big day, Lord Somerset. I still have to get used to being king.”

Lord Shrewsbury stepped in. “You need only follow the Archbishop’s lead. A coronation is one such event at which the King need be little more than present. And awake, I suppose, Your Grace.”

Edmund stared at Lord Shrewsbury. “Awake, my lord? Do you mean to say that my brother, your king, will fall asleep on a very important day for him?”

“I apologize if I meant any offense, Your Grace. I was merely stating that this day might consume many hours but, like any other, it will end. Your brother the king is an honorable man. He will not be alone in your endeavors. I can assure both of Your Graces of this. He shall have me beside you at every turn and I will not be the only one.”

Edmund smiled, relieved. “Thank you for the kind words, my lord. Do not forget about myself, for the king will have his brother by his side at all times.”

Henry turned around and patted Edmund’s shoulder. “Be careful, my lord. I might have use for you much sooner than expected.”

It was daytime at Westminster Abbey. Henry walked barefoot in ceremonial procession through a crowd of noble onlookers. Edmund, Lord Shrewsbury, Henry’s friend Charles Brandon, and the Duke of Norfolk accompany him. The Archbishop lead the way. Edmund could see that Henry was vulnerable, despite his ability to hide it. The crowd watches the body of men with quiet reserve. Henry may have inherited the kingdom, but like Henry, Edmund felt that today as though the kingdom owns him.

The abbey is huge and full of the peers and nobility as well as members of the gentry, watching the new king of England assume his new position. Guided by the bishops, Henry got on all fours on the chancel, disrobed, wearing only breeches. The Archbishop stood over him, massaging oils into his arms, back and shoulders. Edmund was uncomfortable seeing Henry submitting to the arcane and unsettling ceremony that made him bare. The bishops bear witness, while the crowd watches on in silence. They were all whispering blessings in Latin that Edmund could not make out despite him knowing the language. The only reason that he knew that were done was when the Archbishop said, “Amen.”

Later, Henry was clothed in full regal attire and sat on St. Edward’s throne by the altar. The Archbishop turns around and addresses the large crowd.

“Will you, my lords and ladies, at this time give your wills and assents to this consecration whereunto the people shall say with a great voice, yea, yea, yea, so be it, King Henry, King Henry, King Henry!”

The crowd followed suit. “King Henry! King Henry! King Henry!” Meanwhile, the crown of Saint Edward is placed upon Henry’s head. In procession, he is kissed by each of the bishops as he stares out at his inscrutable subjects. He is then approached by his mother, his sister Mary, and Edmund, who each give their public gesture of fealty to him.

As Edmund followed his brother out of the abbey, he was surprised that the crowds were cheering for him. With the ducal crown on his head, he kept his back straight and gave the crowds a large smile. He was the heir apparent to the throne and his health made people feel assured that the Tudor dynasty was secure. No one wanted to return to the days of civil war, when the House of Plantagenet killed each other off and their father was only able to secure the throne after winning at Bosworth and dealing with uprisings led by Yorkist pretenders.
Harry will do his duty to Eleanor and I must do mine, Edmund thought.
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Bernardo de Mesa witnessed the celebratory feasts that came after the coronation. Officials from kingdoms such as Denmark, Sweden, Portugal, and France sent gifts to the new king as well as the king’s sister in Scotland, who was currently pregnant with another child. As for himself, he gave his gift on behalf of Ferdinand of Aragon and proceeded to dance with the good ladies of the English court. He then watched the court unfold from above, needing a breather from all of the ceremonial aspects.

This was not his first time in England. He served as the secretary to his predecessor when they finally came to an agreement over the unpaid amount of the dowry from the marriage of the previous Prince of Wales and Catherine of Aragon, in which Queen Elizabeth essentially allowed the family in Spain to not pay the other part of the dowry and England would pay for Catherine of Aragon’s household until she returned home. From the last time that he had heard, Catherine of Aragon had a happy life in Spain, a far cry from her difficulties as the widow of the dead Prince of Wales.

“Master de Mesa.” Bernardo was surprised that Lord Abergavenny approached him. Even though he was not a senior peer of England, he had royal blood in his veins, being a descendant of Edmund of Langley, Duke of York through his daughter Constance, Countess of Gloucester and by extension was a descendant of Edward III. The man was also had powerful connections after he declared his loyalty to the Tudors, achieving merit against the Cornish rebels, although he suffered a fine of one hundred thousand pounds for keeping an illegal private army, a fine that was still not reversed.

“Lord Abergavenny. What can I do for you?”

“What do you think of the new king?”

Bernardo knew that he had to choose his words carefully, especially given how much trouble Lord Abergavenny had got himself in with the Tudor kings. “He seems promising, and the line is secure, for Princess Eleanor will soon marry him and he has his younger brother to help him stay on the throne.”

“But would you not think that his claim to the throne is tenuous still? He might be the son of Elizabeth of York, but his father’s claim came from a bastard line.”

Bernardo had the good sense to walk away. “My lord,” he tried to excuse himself.

“His father was a greedy man who only did not become more so because of the queen.”

“And what is that to me?” Bernardo asked poignantly. “From what I understand, the previous king outlawed private armies and you were caught. And if you are really curious, the royal master that I serve has no reason to act against the new king as the previous issue that has affected relations between our kingdoms have been resolved to everyone’s satisfaction.”

“I am merely approaching you on behalf of some people who are disaffected by the rule of the current family on the throne.”

“And who would you back instead?” Bernardo crossed his arms. “The de la Poles, what is left of them? Or any other family in England with Plantagenet blood in them? You have seen what happened to Lambert Simnel, Perkin Warbeck, and their followers, and especially the departed Earl of Warwick. Do you really think that those thoughts will serve you well, especially given what happened to all those with Yorkist leanings who were unwise to act on them?”

Lord Abergavenny narrowed his eyes. “Was your royal master not denied a chance to tie his kingdom to England permanently?”

Bernardo scoffed. “You see, there is no benefit of me warning you, but I will not say what was discussed. Only this time, however. The next time, I will have to inform your king and let us see how much more damage you can take. And to answer your question, everyone was satisfied.”

Bernardo left without saying another word. He knew that there would always be those with aspirations on the throne, but he never thought that someone would be that brazen enough to actually approach him.

Bernardo de Mesa was sure that the Tudor line was secure, as England had a king and an heir at present. Even though Catherine of Aragon was back in Spain, any alliance between the families involved would be fulfilled anyway with the final ceremony between King Henry and Eleanor of Austria. But the only issue remaining was the Duke of Somerset. Even though he was the second son, he was certainly an attractive prospect as should the current king die without issue, the duke and his children would wear the crown of England.

I will have to get recommendations from the other families allied to my master, when the time comes for him to marry.

The coronation was short and to the point. And Bernardo de Mesa did serve as ambassador to England, first for Aragon and then for the Holy Roman Empire.
 
Yeah, I went straight to that as well just to see who he was talking about.
But like it just seems really random for someone....unknown like him to try and plot something.

Granted by following the links to his father, his father seemed to be a trusted companion of Edward IV, but both him and his brother seem to be loyal to Henry VIII.

Oh wait he was knighted by Richard III.

Still, he seems to own a lot to Henry VII and VIII.

Damn, actually this guy seems to flip flop a lot according to the article.
 
Granted by following the links to his father, his father seemed to be a trusted companion of Edward IV, but both him and his brother seem to be loyal to Henry VIII.

Oh wait he was knighted by Richard III.

Still, he seems to own a lot to Henry VII and VIII.
Henry VII did a lot to reconcile with the supports of Edward IV and Richard III. He allowed many to retain their lands and titles and even invited the de la Poles (designated heirs of Richard III) to his coronation. He made several Yorkists the Godfathers of his children too!
 
Damn, actually this guy seems to flip flop a lot according to the article.

That was the point in me using this character. He might be an opportunist, but he’s certainly not smart enough to concoct a scheme like what he implied. I intentionally did not reveal who else might be involved.

Henry VII did a lot to reconcile with the supports of Edward IV and Richard III. He allowed many to retain their lands and titles and even invited the de la Poles (designated heirs of Richard III) to his coronation. He made several Yorkists the Godfathers of his children too!

Yeah, like Margaret Pole.
 
Tudor Rose over Britannia Chapter 3
Spring 1513

“The war in Italy is not going to France’s favor, Your Grace.” Henry walked with Lord Essex, who also shared his first name. Lord Essex was also captain of the royal guard, so his opinions on the current war on the continent were valued. “Their position has deteriorated, and it seems that the French have bitten more than what they could possibly chew out of Italy.”

“What do you suggest that I do, Lord Essex?” Henry asked. “Would you recommend that I invade France with an army?”

“An invasion might be possible, Your Grace, if you can get the Holy Roman Empire to support you. After all, the alliance with the emperor is valid even through you are still betrothed to Princess Eleanor.”

“But you have second thoughts, my lord?”

“Well, it has been years since we were able to land on French soil and the only reason the late king was persuaded to turn back was because of French gold.”

“And if I may, Your Grace.” William Warham interjected. Henry retained him as the Lord Chancellor. “A war with France would be expensive and take a significant portion of the treasury your father had managed to accumulate. We must be careful, especially since we are yet to celebrate one year of your reign.”

Henry appreciated that his councilors were advising caution, but he was young and he grew up idolizing the stories of kings such as the Hammer of Scots, Edward III, and Henry V. His own father got glory on the battlefield and he wanted to participate in an actual war, not the kind that could be found in tourneys.

“What say you, Lord Somerset?” Henry asked his brother. He was relieved when Edmund decided to remain at court and was content to have mother continue to take charge of his education. He was soon to be fourteen years of age, but Henry greatly appreciated his young brother’s company. He also knew that he had much to do if he wanted to make his brother feel at ease, for he did not spend much time with him while he had to prepare himself to take on the responsibilities of kingship once Arthur died.

“Your Grace, I feel that as a boy, my thoughts on war would not be… ones that I would take seriously.”

“Nonsense.” Henry patted his brother’s back. “You are at an age where boys like you are about to take part in their first tournament. You are still training well in the art of combat, I trust?”

“As well as I can, my king.”

“Good. Then you must have some thoughts on whether a war with France is advisable.” Edmund was hesitating, especially since the eyes of William Warham and Lord Essex were upon him, but Henry grasped his shoulder. “You are talking to me, brother. I want to hear what you have to say.”

Edmund swallowed. “Well, in the schoolroom, I was taught about the war in France and the years after Henry V won at Agincourt. While I was studying, I came across a battle called Verneuil.”

“Ah,” Henry recognized. “The battle in which the Duke of Bedford crushed the Scottish army in France. A victory on the scales of Agincourt, a great one.”

“But… the Duke of Bedford ran out of money to run the war in France, even though he was a great general. That is what was taught.”

“Hmmm.” Henry knew that was also true. The Duke of Bedford was indeed a talented commander and leader of men, but he was restricted by how much coin he could use to pay for the campaigns. “And so, because of the Duke of Bedford, you would not advise a war against France?”

“Well, perhaps if you want to fight, we can look elsewhere,” Edmund suggested.

“And where, my Lord Somerset, would you recommend we turn our attention?”

“What about Ireland?” Edmund asked. “Your Grace might call yourself Lord of Ireland, but why do we control so little of that island?”

Henry was struck. He did not think about Ireland at the moment, but his brother did bring forth a good point that England only controlled a small portion of that island. “Indeed, we do not.”

Lord Essex jumped in. “Your Grace, I would wholeheartedly support any venture into Ireland. It might not be as glorious as a war against France, but we will be able to grant young men the chance to fight and make names for themselves. We would also do so at the lowest possible risk against our troops, since the Irish lords could hardly be counted as fighting force against English arms.”

William Warham also interceded. “I concur with Lord Essex, Your Grace. It is indeed time that we assert full and complete control over Ireland. For those that support your rule, we can empower them. For those that continue to resist you, my king, we can take away their titles and their lands, all of which can be brought into the royal exchequer. I also have connections with William Rokeby, the Archbishop of Dublin. Perhaps together, we can come up with a solution to have the Irish church also support stronger English control over Irish lands.”

Henry rubbed his chin. A general subjugation of Ireland might not be as glorious as Lord Essex described, but it did present a chance to test his mettle in war. He then turned to Edmund. “If I were to accede to this, perhaps we can start with Edmund’s earldom. After all, I have confirmed him in his title as Earl of Ulster. It is only proper that his lands are fully brought under his control.”

“But of course, Your Grace.”

Henry nodded. “Make the preparations, my lords.” After seeing the two men leave, he grabbed Edmund’s shoulders. “Well, look at you. Already, you have brought forth a great idea.”

“You asked, Harry. I only gave my answer.”

“And a good one. But do you also want to participate?”

“If I can.”

Henry scratched his brother’s ear. “Of course that you would. But I told you that I would have use for you soon. As taking Ireland was your idea, will you take responsibility for it?”

Edmund nodded eagerly. “Yes, Harry.”

Henry smiled. “I am not going to make you the one in charge, as you are still young and my heir before I have my sons, your nephews. But you will observe everything going on, starting from tomorrow.”

“I will do my best, Harry. I am eager to strengthen our family.”

“And you think a war in France would not do that?”

“If you want a war with France, Harry, we are going to need a little more money, and Ireland can give that.”

Henry was impressed that he was already having a good sense on how government worked. “Of course.” They both walked back to the palace, as they would be busy making preparations for the Irish campaign.
 
The Plantagenet and later Tudors had to fight for the lands and territories of Henry II and Eleanor of Aquitaine it would have been political suicide not too. Henry VIII can gain a lot more battle field experience in fighting in Ireland which could pave the way for campaigns in Scotland and France. Also Ireland's would help Henry and Edmund get a great understanding of clan culture that also exists in the Highlands. As for wars in Scotland the Tudors would have to just replace the Scottish lords and appoint new Lords that will not abuse the Scotts. Edward I of England failed due to fighting Welsh rebels, Philip IV of France over Gascony and the Scottish wars lead to him not having the money and support of his barons to continue fighting the war. Henry VIII would have these same problems having to fight on multiple fronts but having greater war experience and a respect for the treasury and penny counting my great a more effective king. Henry V had a healthy respect and understanding of money during his father's rule due to Henry iV not having the support of parliament to fight the Scot and the Welsh Rebellion in the early 1400s. As was this understand of money that made Henry V more successful than Edward iii and Edward the black Prince due to being careful with spending. It also important to notice that during his last year of live it's believed that Henry V that England could not defeat France with out burgundy and that England did not have the money to pay the Army. One of the great change of tactics was that Henry V rather than lead reading like Edward iii he went to France to take territory. It's important dimension that France has a population over 22 million compared to England 5 or 6 million subjects. What made the English successful in France was there a farms of Edward I and Edward iii because England had a cheaper army by using longbows compared to the more expensive French mercenaries and kights put simply England had to innovate in order to defeat France. As for future wars the longbow was use in the 16th century but was phased out with flintlock muskets. Gunpowder weapons will be much more expensive and let's not for get the artillery. It was the new cannons which live to England losing Gascony and the last inheritance of Eleanor of Aquitaine. So Edmund make a very strong point you will need money and innovations to defeat France. Let's say the Tudors take the British isles they will have to worry about rebellions in Ireland and Scotland which could be avoided if Henry VIII lived in those regions for a few years. Machiavelli makes the point that Louis 12th of France lost the Italian wars due to not staying in France and inviting the Spanish into Southern Italy. Machiavelli stated King Louis understood war but not politics.
 
The Plantagenet and later Tudors had to fight for the lands and territories of Henry II and Eleanor of Aquitaine it would have been political suicide not too. Henry VIII can gain a lot more battle field experience in fighting in Ireland which could pave the way for campaigns in Scotland and France. Also Ireland's would help Henry and Edmund get a great understanding of clan culture that also exists in the Highlands. As for wars in Scotland the Tudors would have to just replace the Scottish lords and appoint new Lords that will not abuse the Scotts. Edward I of England failed due to fighting Welsh rebels, Philip IV of France over Gascony and the Scottish wars lead to him not having the money and support of his barons to continue fighting the war. Henry VIII would have these same problems having to fight on multiple fronts but having greater war experience and a respect for the treasury and penny counting my great a more effective king. Henry V had a healthy respect and understanding of money during his father's rule due to Henry iV not having the support of parliament to fight the Scot and the Welsh Rebellion in the early 1400s. As was this understand of money that made Henry V more successful than Edward iii and Edward the black Prince due to being careful with spending. It also important to notice that during his last year of live it's believed that Henry V that England could not defeat France with out burgundy and that England did not have the money to pay the Army. One of the great change of tactics was that Henry V rather than lead reading like Edward iii he went to France to take territory. It's important dimension that France has a population over 22 million compared to England 5 or 6 million subjects. What made the English successful in France was there a farms of Edward I and Edward iii because England had a cheaper army by using longbows compared to the more expensive French mercenaries and kights put simply England had to innovate in order to defeat France. As for future wars the longbow was use in the 16th century but was phased out with flintlock muskets. Gunpowder weapons will be much more expensive and let's not for get the artillery. It was the new cannons which live to England losing Gascony and the last inheritance of Eleanor of Aquitaine. So Edmund make a very strong point you will need money and innovations to defeat France. Let's say the Tudors take the British isles they will have to worry about rebellions in Ireland and Scotland which could be avoided if Henry VIII lived in those regions for a few years. Machiavelli makes the point that Louis 12th of France lost the Italian wars due to not staying in France and inviting the Spanish into Southern Italy. Machiavelli stated King Louis understood war but not politics.
You got it! What I was going for is that the Irish campaign would last for a total of ten years, with the first four being the most difficult and the last six being mostly mop-up. Once Henry is able to collect the necessary funds and men, he will then establish their headquarters in Dublin while he would personally take charge in subjugating Ulster as a first step. Once Ulster is secured, the English will then move onto the more Gaelic-entrenched areas of Connaught and Munster and that's where the obstacles will come. Henry's troops will come into conflict with the Butlers and the Earls of Desmond, who practically enjoyed autonomy in southern Ireland, and then the de Bermingham family (Baron Athenry) in Connaught. Other families that would resist would include the O'Brians in Thomond and the Burke family of Mayo. He will at first go for a brute force approach, in which he believes that battles will win him Ireland. However, once he realizes that such an approach would not always achieve the desired results, he compromises by adopting a policy similar to the "surrender and regrant" pursued in OTL, but with more steep conditions such as royal garrisons in every Irish county.

Meanwhile, Edmund will have come of age and will partake in his first campaign in Ireland, and he would also gain experience as a soldier and politician, as well as the Gaelic clan structure like Henry would. As you rightly pointed out, that would serve them well should they decide to pursue Scotland. But with a large amount of land seized from Irish lords who resisted and a large amount of money in fines and other charges deposited in the treasury, they can then turn to their attentions on either Scotland or France.
 
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You got it! What I was going for is that the Irish campaign would last for a total of ten years, with the first four being the most difficult and the last six being mostly mop-up. Once Henry is able to collect the necessary funds and men, he will then establish their headquarters in Dublin while he would personally take charge in subjugating Ulster as a first step. Once Ulster is secured, the English will then move onto the more Gaelic-entrenched areas of Connaught and Munster and that's where the obstacles will come. Henry's troops will come into conflict with the Butlers and the Earls of Desmond, who practically enjoyed autonomy in southern Ireland, and then the de Bermingham family (Baron Athenry) in Connaught. Other families that would resist would include the O'Brians in Thomond and the Burke family of Mayo. He will at first go for a brute force approach, in which he believes that battles will win him Ireland. However, once he realizes that such an approach would not always achieve the desired results, he compromises by adopting a policy similar to the "surrender and regrant" pursued in OTL, but with more steep conditions such as royal garrisons in every Irish county.

Meanwhile, Edmund will have come of age and will partake in his first campaign in Ireland, and he would also gain experience as a soldier and politician, as well as the Gaelic clan structure like Henry would. As you rightly pointed out, that would serve them well should they decide to pursue Scotland. But with a large amount of land seized from Irish lords who resisted and a large amount of money in fines and other charges deposited in the treasury, they can then turn to their attentions on either Scotland or France.
The question would have to be do Edmund and more importantly does Henry come out of the Irish wars looking at France or Scotland as a opportunity for more glory and prestige for the Tudor dynasty. Also due to the Auld Alliance between Scotland and France England will be fight any war on two fronts maybe three is Ireland revolts. There is also the possibility the French and Scots send an army to invade Ireland it's what Louis XIV date and Robert the first of Scotland both invaded and sent troops to Scotland. Henry VIII my back the reformation just so he can get the money to pay for his wars of conquest especially if he gets the taste for it. As the choice between taking lands in Scotland or France there is more wealth in France but taking Scotland will be a lot more successful. As for France maintaining the garrison's would bankrupt the Kingdom in the long wrong but Henry could take lands in Normandy or Gascony but I do not believe he could keep them he would run the risk of the Spanish or French marching on Gascony. As for lands in the British isles there will be religious and uprisings in Ireland and Scotland to deal with should Henry go that route. Henry VIII will have too choices follow his ancestor Edward the First or Edward iii when it come to his relations with France and Scotland. Looking forward to seeing more wish you luck.
 
The question would have to be do Edmund and more importantly does Henry come out of the Irish wars looking at France or Scotland as a opportunity for more glory and prestige for the Tudor dynasty. Also due to the Auld Alliance between Scotland and France England will be fight any war on two fronts maybe three is Ireland revolts. There is also the possibility the French and Scots send an army to invade Ireland it's what Louis XIV date and Robert the first of Scotland both invaded and sent troops to Scotland. Henry VIII my back the reformation just so he can get the money to pay for his wars of conquest especially if he gets the taste for it. As the choice between taking lands in Scotland or France there is more wealth in France but taking Scotland will be a lot more successful. As for France maintaining the garrison's would bankrupt the Kingdom in the long wrong but Henry could take lands in Normandy or Gascony but I do not believe he could keep them he would run the risk of the Spanish or French marching on Gascony. As for lands in the British isles there will be religious and uprisings in Ireland and Scotland to deal with should Henry go that route. Henry VIII will have too choices follow his ancestor Edward the First or Edward iii when it come to his relations with France and Scotland. Looking forward to seeing more wish you luck.
Glad you like it! And those are some compelling points, as they will have a taste for conquest and will want more, as you imply.
 
Tudor Rose over Britannia Chapter 4 (Ireland)
1515, Ireland

Lord Clifford could tell that his opponent, “King O’Connor” of Faly, had refused to listen to military advice and on the morning ordered his troops down from their mountain camp to give battle to the royal army although his intelligence stated much of his cavalry was engaged in domestic issues in his capital of Daingean. Lord Clifford could only shake his head at what amounted to the characteristic disunity among the Irish peoples.

Lord Clifford could also see that “King O’Connor”'s inexperience was further exposed by how he drew up his troops for battle. He placed a small advance guard in front his army and positioned the rest of his troops in a huge solid mass, which meant that it would be very difficult to maneuver and very few units could actually engage the enemy, being stuck within the ranks of their own men. Lord Clifford, meanwhile, who had been fighting for the Tudors ever since King Henry VII won at Bosworth and was his main man in northern England, and whose father had died for the Lancastrian cause at Towton, drew up his men in small flexible units, all of which were able to support one another and to move around on the battlefield.

The battle started when Lord Clifford sent an infantry detachment to meet the Irish advance party. The two sides exchanged arrow volleys at close range and then fought hand to hand with pikes, swords, and axes. However, Lord Clifford steadily reinforced his infantry and eventually drove the Irishmen back into the front of their formation. Because of the deployment method “King O’Connor” adopted, it hemmed in the front ranks of the royal army, who were trapped behind their own panicked skirmishers and the pursuing infantry of the English. Seeing his chance, Lord Clifford sent more infantry to attack the flanks of the Irish formation, trapping the whole force between his men and the mountain, the initial position of advantage they had descended from to engage Lord Clifford's troops.

Slowly, but surely, the fate of the O’Connor army resembled that of the Roman army that Hannibal destroyed at Cannae over thousand years ago. Although they outnumbered their enemies, they were pinned in a dense uncoordinated mass, unable to defend themselves against the troops who had surrounded them. Increasingly, they were a mob of terrified individuals rather than a disciplined military unit. They were also very short of good weapons and arrows, which meant that the English army could pour volleys into this dense mass without the enemy offering an effective response, cutting down their quarry from a distance.

At that point, all was lost, and the Faly leaders and horsemen fled the battlefield, pursued by the English cavalry. Nevertheless, the doomed O’Connor footmen fought doggedly until they were slaughtered. Two-thirds of Lord Clifford’s Irish opponents were dead and were found on the battlefield itself rather than along the line of pursuit, which stands as stark testament to the determination of the O’Connor troops knowing Lord Clifford's reputation as the main enforcer in northern England.

Lord Clifford toured the battlefield, pleased at his success. He was eager to once more be of service to the Tudors, particularly with the new king. He was not on good terms with the late king and he wished to do one more act of service in war before he would retired back to the north. He might have seen sixty-one years on Earth, but he was not going to allow age to hold him back, not while his son and heir was about to spend all of his hard-earned fortune after he died.

Although he was skeptical of the king’s plan to conquer all of Ireland, Lord Clifford realized that he stood to gain much. He might saw his son and heir as the means for his family to marry into the high aristocracy, but he saw his younger son Thomas as the more pliable and the one who inherited his careful spending habits. Therefore, he took Thomas with him to Ireland and there, they were in charge of the left wing of the royal advance on the Irish midlands. And now, Lord Clifford expected great rewards and honors to be laid onto him for defeating a major Gaelic force.

While they made camp, Lord Clifford received Sir James FitzGerald of Leixlip, second son of the late Earl of Kildare. Unlike the current Earl of Kildare, who was more soft-spoken and polite in his manners, Sir James was very much his father’s son in that he was hot-tempered, open, and preferring plain speech. That was something that Lord Clifford would always admire, for he preferred to not waste time with pretty words.

“Sir James,” Lord Clifford addressed him.

“My lord,” the FitzGerald son dipped his head in respect. “I have come on behalf of the king in congratulating you on this great victory. He has generously offered you and your men to keep all of the spoils of the battle while asking for any Irish prisoners of note to be turned over to him.”

“That I shall do, Sir James, if those are his commands.”

“Also, the king wants you to take your forces and move northwards to link up with his troops and Dromahair. He plans to subjugate the Ó Ruairc king before he moves southwards.”

“Understood, Sir James. Tell the king that I shall do as he wishes.”

“He also wants your son, Sir Thomas, to appear at Dublin Castle to assist the Duke of Norfolk in organizing the advance into the Connaught region. The O’Brian kings of Thomond and the de Bermingham family have failed to give their submissions to the king and thus, we must respond to the obstinance with a force of arms.”

“But I need Sir Thomas with me, Sir James.”

“It is the king’s orders. I am sure that you can do well without your son for a few weeks.”

Lord Clifford nodded his assent. “Of course. I shall tell my son.”

The head of the Clifford family was not blind as to why the king was pursuing the conquest of Ireland. Everyone at court knew that the Tudor brothers, both the king and the Duke of Somerset, had ambitions and all of that involved the sword. However, they also knew that they were untested and needed money to finance whatever campaigns that they had in the mind and the best place to get both experience and money was in Ireland. Or the parts of the island not under firm English control.

By this point, King Henry VIII had been married to Queen Eleanor for one year and she was with child, with everyone hoping for a boy. The Duke of Somerset had reached sixteen years of age and was close to reaching his majority, of which many gave high praises to his looks, athleticism, and sound education. Although the duke was soon to be further down the line of succession, he was still a good marriage prospect and Lord Clifford himself pondered on the idea of marrying one of his daughters or granddaughters to him, which was blocked by the Dowager Queen Elizabeth.

Considering that this whole Irish venture was the duke’s idea, Lord Clifford wondered if the duke was on to something, as there was much benefit to controlling of Ireland and many nobles such as the Duke of Buckingham, Duke of Norfolk, and several other earls and barons were focusing their energies into staking as much Irish land as possible. With Ireland all under English control, the next natural steps would be either Scotland or France.

As of this moment, the reign of Henry VIII was looking bright and promising, with the Irish venture providing dividends.


*inspired by the Battle of Scarrifholis (1650)
 
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