The Towers Still Stand: An Alternate take on early 21st Century America.

[BP Booker]

Its too late now but it would have been nice of Bush to have nominated McCain for either State of Defense, he is experienced, uncontroversial, his seat is safe and would dissipated any bad blood between the two. However, McCain is probably gearing up for a run in 2008 - if Kasich is not interested. I bit dissapointed that Romney and Pawlenty failed on their runs

 

[TheGuyWhoHeartsHistory]

As I've said, I had an idea for a hypothetical event in this timeline that would be nowhere near the scale of 9/11, but would still at least SOMEWHAT alter the culture of the time and perhaps unleash shades of the OTL Bush Presidency.

 

[dw93]

January 22nd, 2005. Chuck Hagel Sworn in as Secretary of Defense.
​

On the morning of January 22nd, at the White House, Vice President Kasich administered the Oath to Chuck Hagel. Prior to the Vice President Administering the Oath, President Bush gave a Speech praising outgoing Defense Secretary James Baker, and thanked him for his Service to the Country. The President then went on to say that while he was sad to see Baker go, "a good Defense Secretary is being replaced by another good Defense Secretary." Bush then said that the Senate confirmed "a qualified, quality candidate." Hagel, after taking the oath, thanked the President for his kind words and said that he was honored to be given this responsibility.

​

 

[dw93]

February 2nd, 2005. President Bush delivers his 2005 State of the Union Address:
​

On February 2nd, 2005, just one day after Congressman Mike Pence and Nebraska Lt. Governor Dave Heineman were announced as Replacements in the Senate for Secretary of State Lugar and Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel Respectively, George W. Bush addressed the nation from the Capitol Building to discuss the State of the Country for the fifth time of his Presidency:

"Madam Speaker, Vice President Kasich, Distinguished Guests, My Fellow Citizens. Today I am proud to report to you that the State of Our Union is Strong. Our economy is the fastest growing economy in the in the Industrialized world, homeownership is at a record high, and over 2.5 million jobs have been created since the economic recovery began. This is thanks to lowering taxes, keeping regulations low and at the same time, holding Corporations accountable. Together we must work to keep our economy growing. We must also ensure that every American can benefit from this strong economy as well. That is why I am proposing a plan that gives states funds to use as they see fit to fund Community Colleges and Trade Schools to train their workers for the jobs of the 21st century. I am also proposing cuts in regulation and additional tax cuts for our Business Community so that our newly trained and educated workers have a job to go to. Some of you in this chamber will say that another Tax Cut will blow a hole in the budget. This will not be the case. More people working and less people on Welfare will offset any costs of this program. While working to keep the American Dream Alive, we must also do what we can to protect the life of the unborn. A bill to ban Partial Birth abortion has been proposed and I pledge to you tonight that if that legislation reaches my desk, I will sign it and put an end to this horrible practice...

Last year, after years of disobeying the International Community, Iraq finally allowed Weapons Inspections to take place. and thankfully there were none to be found. This Administration will keep the pressure on Iraq, and Ensure that Saddam Hussein never gets his hands on these weapons. We will also work with our allies to disarm other rouge dictators throughout the world. . .

We've made progress over the last few years and have done so in a bi partisan manner. Last year, the American people spoke and sent us here to work together to keep our economy growing and to make the world a safer place. Thank you all and God Bless America.

 

[Asp]

How nice and boring and in wonderful contrast to OTL

 

[BigVic]

Interesting to see how 2005-09 goes with no Iraq and War on Terror.

W’s election victory in ‘04 is narrower than OTL by less than 14 votes. The recession of 2001 costed the GOP in the 2002 midterms

 

[Captain Zed]

I have been following this timeline since around the time it started, and I have to say, this is a really good TL, though I do wish non-US stuff would get some more attention. (for one, what Afghanistan is like and whether the Taliban are still around, unless I missed something, though granted I think a good fraction of international events would still be the same without 9/11: the EU and NATO likely still get their ex-Eastern Bloc members, for instance. Though if it's something you aren't good at, it's fair and OK.)

Also, here's something I would love to ask regarding this TL (even though this TL mainly focuses on politics above all else): considering you lumped 1999-2001 into a separate cultural period in another thread, what would pop culture be like without 9/11? Would that 1999-2001 period you posited continue for much longer or even encompass the whole decade?

Also, I just recently found a really nice picture of NYC that could easily have been taken in ATL if anyone doesn't mind (either 2005, where the timeline is currently at, or even 2018, though there's no Goldman Sachs Building).

 

[DAv]

Ah, so it looks as if we're going to get a fight over the next few years in regards to the proposed abortion ban. That could lead to things getting very bitter indeed.

 

[Pokemon Master]

I have been following this timeline since around the time it started, and I have to say, this is a really good TL, though I do wish non-US stuff would get some more attention. (for one, what Afghanistan is like and whether the Taliban are still around, unless I missed something, though granted I think a good fraction of international events would still be the same without 9/11: the EU and NATO likely still get their ex-Eastern Bloc members, for instance. Though if it's something you aren't good at, it's fair and OK.)

Also, here's something I would love to ask regarding this TL (even though this TL mainly focuses on politics above all else): considering you lumped 1999-2001 into a separate cultural period in another thread, what would pop culture be like without 9/11? Would that 1999-2001 period you posited continue for much longer or even encompass the whole decade?

Also, I just recently found a really nice picture of NYC that could easily have been taken in ATL if anyone doesn't mind (either 2005, where the timeline is currently at, or even 2018, though there's no Goldman Sachs Building).

The Goldman Sachs Building would be butterflied away ITTL since it was built using governments grants from the 9-11 attacks.

 

[BP Booker]

How nice and boring and in wonderful contrast to OTL

Looking foward to George Bush Jr ITTL being remembered as a painfully middle of the road President between the Clinton and the ??? administartions and not... well, you know

 

[The Congressman]

How nice and boring and in wonderful contrast to OTL

Which means it needs a huge shakeup.

Can I say Korean War II?

 

[Captain Zed]

Looking foward to George Bush Jr ITTL being remembered as a painfully middle of the road President between the Clinton and the ??? administartions and not... well, you know

I don't know why, but I am picturing Bush being seen as Clinton, but Republican and without the sex scandals. That's my 20 cents anyway.

And I can't wait for how 2008 shapes up in this ATL, because I am pretty sure it will be completely unrecognizable to OTL, considering Bush likely won't be the failure he was by OTL 2008.

 

[Asp]

*snip*

There is actually something less far fetched coming down the pipe that I think I might have mentioned earlier in this thread.

Libya was scared to death in OTL by us knocking out Saddam over his WMDs, and that's what finally convinced Gaddafi to give his up. I am assuming that he is still developing nukes and has chemical weapons IATL. With the neocons in charge and such a good casus belli it is probably likely they will get invaded. If not, when the Libyan regime falls apart during Arab Spring in five years there is a 98% chance of military intervention by NATO, probably with Russian and Chinese diplomatic support. The one thing all of us can agree on is that Islamic fundies potentially getting their hands on WMD tech is the biggest of no-nos.

Things are also quite possibly going to go to hell with Georgia. The Russians had to fight way too hard to win IOTL, and the interesting thing is that a significant portion of Georgia's military force was actually in Iraq. They had 2,000 soldiers with much of their best equipment and 5,000 Ministry of Interior Affairs personnel in Iraq. By comparison, they had about 10-11k military and MIA forces to actually fight the Russians and the same number of reservists and irregulars. It is a certainty that the war there will be much more bloody and could become protracted, with significant butterflies. This actually a really under-adressed plot point in TLs without an Iraq War.

 

[The Congressman]

I don't know why, but I am picturing Bush being seen as Clinton, but Republican and without the sex scandals. That's my 20 cents anyway.

And I can't wait for how 2008 shapes up in this ATL, because I am pretty sure it will be completely unrecognizable to OTL, considering Bush likely won't be the failure he was by OTL 2008.

George Allen for President!

 

[addd]

George Allen for President!

Given the political trends, I think the next pres will be a Democrat.

Although I’d love Obama’s to be elected, I don’t think he will ITTL. So, I’m going with Hillary.

If we have another GOP win (which I doubt), let’s go Susan Collins!

 

[manitobot]

Have you seen the Alternate History Hub vide on this? He theorizes that though peaceful now it only causes Islamic fundamentalism to grow, leading to possible more devastating contacts in the future.

 

[addd]

Have you seen the Alternate History Hub vide on this? He theorizes that though peaceful now it only causes Islamic fundamentalism to grow, leading to possible more devastating contacts in the future.

What’s his basis for this?

 

[BP Booker]

Although I’d love Obama’s to be elected, I don’t think he will ITTL. So, I’m going with Hillary.

Nothing short of death would stop Hillary from running for President in 2008, specially considering the Democrats congressional majorities would be even bigger than OTL (ITTL they already had a wider lead in 2002 than after ITTL 2006 blue wave) AND she doesent have the Iraq war vote hanging from her neck. And I think Obama can still achive natinal prominence, even if he didnt get the Keynote Speech at the DNC 2004.

I hope the Democratic Congress blocks any and all attempts by the Bush administartion to roll back Women's Rights to Choose, but I know that 2004 is not 2018, when ITTL and OTL the bench was propt up by a lot of Blue Dog Democrats that cant afford such politicaly charged votes. In fact I hope that the Blue Dog coalition and the Main Street Partnership survive...

An intervention in Libya between 2004 and 2008 is really not far fetched honestly, considering Bush and his wing of the party might want to show that America is still strong military diplomacy wise, and it honestly cannot go as bad as Iraq right? Althou there is no way in hell the US goes anywhere near Georgia, is practicaly Russia's backyard!

I wonder how much longer the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan will last, and their against the Northern Alliance. 9/11 was the reason Pakistan and Saudi Arabia rescinded recognition as the rightful gov of that country

 

[Indicus]

Have you seen the Alternate History Hub vide on this? He theorizes that though peaceful now it only causes Islamic fundamentalism to grow, leading to possible more devastating contacts in the future.

Islamic fundamentalism will certainly grow, but it won’t grow as quickly as OTL. That’s what I think, anyways.

 

[Asp]

An intervention in Libya between 2004 and 2008 is really not far fetched honestly, considering Bush and his wing of the party might want to show that America is still strong military diplomacy wise, and it honestly cannot go as bad as Iraq right? Althou there is no way in hell the US goes anywhere near Georgia, is practicaly Russia's backyard!

I wonder how much longer the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan will last, and their against the Northern Alliance. 9/11 was the reason Pakistan and Saudi Arabia rescinded recognition as the rightful gov of that country

It wouldn't go as bad because Libya has very few sectarian tensions (the country is 100% Sunni Arab Muslim). There is some regionalism, but the place is nothing remotely like Iraq. The population is also very small (IOTL 2018 it's 6.3 million, while Iraq is 37.2 million by comparison), so the occupation could be handled with far fewer troops. I think there is actually a downright good chance it could be rebuilt into a democracy similar to OTL post-Arab Spring Tunisia.

The U.S. won't intervene, but that isn't the only way the butterflies will happen. If Russia perceives their performance as a national humiliation and/or hits the Georgians with tremendous force on level of Chechnya to break them, relations with the West will go far south very quickly.

It will last until someone with teeth decides that it won't. Harboring al-Qaeda, the Public Enemy #1 of every civilized country on Earth including all five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council, will get them burned hard sooner or later, even if it waits until the end of the decade.