The Three Thrones

[Justin Pickard]

POD: In 1808, the only child of King Christian VIII of Denmark is born as a girl, rather than a boy.

OTL Frederick VII of Denmark is born female, as Princess Sophia Caroline (1808-65). She marries Oscar I of Sweden (1799-1859) in 1825, and gives birth to a male child – Prince Charles - around 1827.

Upon the death of King Christian VIII (1786-1848), the throne of Denmark passes to his brother, who becomes TTL King Frederick VII (1792-1863). He is pressured into making a number of major reforms in the immediate aftermath of the 1848 revolutions. A bicameral national assembly – consisting of Landsting and Folketing - is established, with universal male suffrage for the Folketing. The absolute monarchy was transformed into a constitutional monarchy, policy-making lying with the cabinet now, headed by the Prime Minister.

Adam Wilhelm Moltke (1785-1864) is the first Prime Minister of Denmark, holding the position from 1848 to 1853.

First War of Schleswig (1848-50) occurs more or less as per OTL, although slightly greater Swedish support ensures a more favorable outcome for Denmark. In the immediate aftermath, Frederick VII and Adam Moltke initiate a series of moves intended to pursue greater cultural integration between Schleswig, Holstein, and Denmark (similar in form to Russification).

In 1856, Denmark adopts an electoral system of Proportional Representation in a move which in the following decades proves increasingly unpopular, primarily as a result of its inability to return cohesive governments.

Carl Christian Hall (1812-88) – prime minister from 1857 to 1859 – holds a plebiscite in an attempt to unify Denmark and Schleswig-Holstein in a unitary state with a common constitution. With strong opposition from pro-German nationalists, the move is passed by a substantial majority in Schleswig, but defeated in Holstein. Caught in political deadlock, Hall resigns. His successor, Magnus Johansen (1810-67) – prime minister from 1859 to 1863 – reaches a compromise on the issue through a strengthening and integration of the Consultative Assemblies.

After Christian VIII and Oscar I manage to make the necessary alterations to the laws of succession, the stage is set for Charles Christian Frederick Bernadotte (1827-89) to inherit the throne of Denmark upon the death of his great-uncle Frederick VII in 1863, in addition to the throne of Sweden-Norway he held since his father’s death in 1859.

King Charles XV of Sweden, Karl IV of Norway, and Christian IX, King of Denmark and Grand Duke of Schleswig-Holstein, is in his early to mid thirties upon his ascension to the various thrones.

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What happens next?

 

[Faeelin]

Very cool photo. Where's it from?

 

[Cloudy Vortex]

I've seen it in the Wikipedia in the Scandinavia article. It may have a source listing but it was a time period propaganda drawing supporting a renewal of the Union of Kalmar. Or something like that.

 

[Wendell]

This has potential

Will Scandinavia consolidate, or expand?

 

[c92nichj]

Interesting

I'm eager to know the continuation

 

[Swede]

So you fleshed it out a bit?
Given the spirit of the time I'd say the three kingdoms would coordinate succession laws pretty quick to ensure continued unity, but actual unification into a single political structure would take much longer. Might give Norway equal standing (on paper) to Sweden and Denmark, for the first time in a long while, when a real union is set up eventually.

iirc that poster didn't go so far as to propagate a renewed Kalmar Union, it stops at suporting Swedish-Norwegian suport for Denmark in the war against Germany. i.e. it was a blatant expression for the pan-Scandinavism that was fairly common (and in a way still is IMO).

 

[Justin Pickard]

Thoughts

As Charles ascends the throne of Denmark in the spring of 1863, the Danish council president is Ditlev Monrad (1811-87), a Lutheran bishop and leader of a National Liberal government. The Swedish premier is Louis Gerhard De Geer (1818-96), a popular reformer. The Viceroy of Norway is Frederik Stang (1808-84), a former lawyer attempting to reconcile conflicting factions within Norwegian politics.

January 1863 sees a popular uprising against Russian rule in Poland, Lithuania and Belarus. As King of Sweden and Norway, Charles was amongst the first to offer his heartfelt support for the rebels. Frederick VII of Denmark, however, was pressured into siding with the Russians in the conflict. Upon his death in February 1863, the Danish throne falls to Charles who, on behalf of the Poles, initiates a dialogue with Napoleon III of France (1808-73). In view of the dynastic union of the three thrones, these talks coincide with Otto von Bismarck (1815-98) - acting in the interests of Prussia - starting to make a noise over the Schleswig-Holstein situation which, in the light of Salic law, so he claimed, should not have passed to Charles with the Danish throne.

In March 1863, the future King Edward VII of the United Kingdom (1841-1910) is scheduled to marry someone who in TTL doesn’t have the same royal weight as in OTL.

Any suggestions for a replacement?

Also in the March of 1863, another figure who in TTL doesn’t have the same royal weight as in OTL is scheduled to be elected as the King of the Hellenes, to replace the deposed Otto of Wittelsbach.

Again, any suggestions for a replacement?

 

[Justin Pickard]

Dynastic Interlude

Offspring of King Oscar I (1799-1859) and Princess Sophia (1808-65)

King Charles XV (1827-89)
Prince Oscar (1830-74)
The Princess Caroline (1832-1903)
Prince Frederick (1836-47)
The Princess Maria (1837-69)
The Princess Eugenie (1839-40)
Prince William (1840-1911) - accepts the throne of Greece, as King of the Hellenes, in 1863.

 

[Justin Pickard]

Still quite a lot to work out, butterfly-wise, but here are the basics -

Offspring of King Oscar I (1799-1859) and Princess Sophia (1808-65):

King Charles XV (1827-89)
-Dies of natural causes at the age of 62.
-Marries Louise of the Netherlands (1828-71) in 1852.

Prince Oscar (1830-74)
-Dies from heart problems at the age of 44.
-Remains unmarried

The Princess Caroline (1832-1903)
-Dies of natural causes at the age of 71.
-Marries Frederick I, Grand Duke of Baden (1826-1907), in 1853.

Prince Frederick (1836-47)
-Dies from childhood illness at the age of 11.

The Princess Maria (1837-69)
-Dies in childbirth at the age of 32.
-Marries Nicholas of Nassau (1832-1905) in 1860.

The Princess Eugenie (1839-40)
-Dies in infancy.

Prince William (1840-1911)
-Elected as King of the Hellenes in 1863.
-Dies of natural causes at the age of 71.
-Marries Alice Saxe-Coburg (1843-78) in 1861.

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Essentially what I am thinking for the 1850s, 60s and 70s is -

(1) a more successful Polish Uprising with some military support from the French and Scandavians,
(2) a protracted German-Scandinavian War which ends in a Scandinavian victory, but at a high cost,
(3) an uphill struggle for Bismark - beset by Austria on the one side, and Scandinavia on the other - in ensuring Prussian dominance in Germany,
(4) an early Franco-Prussian War, which proves more successful for the French.

I'm envisaging Scandanavia expanding and consolidating, but somewhat unevenly, with many agrarian Norwegians being alienated by the sheer speed of industrialisation and reform in the Danish and Swedish heartlands. Any thoughts, people?

 

[Justin Pickard]

Okay, have realised that changes would be felt slightly sooner and, as such, have reworked the earliest part of the timeline as follows. The route is takes next is rather up to you guys.

POD: In October 1808, the only child of King Christian VIII of Denmark is born female, rather than male. OTL Frederick VII becomes Sophia Caroline, Princess of Denmark.

In the uneasy aftermath of the Napoleonic wars, Princess Sophia Caroline of Denmark (180 meets Crown Prince Oscar of Sweden (1799-) at the funeral of Louis XVIII of France in September 1824.

Despite some opposition from King Charles XIV of Sweden (1763-1844), the marriage of Sophia Caroline and Oscar goes ahead in the spring of 1826. Despite the birth of two sons to Princess Sophia in 1827 and 1830, the relationship between Oscar and his father cools dramatically, to the point that – by 1831 – Charles has no qualms in accusing his son of plotting to unseat him. Angered by the accusations, Oscar moves with Caroline to Denmark where, between 1831 and 1840, they parent five more children.

In 1829, at the University of Lund in Sweden, Scandinavianism – a version of patriotism that encompassed Swedes, Danes and Norwegians – was born. Combined with the public denunciation of the Crown Prince by his father, the public perception of King Charles XIV is souring quickly. By 1840, public opinion is such that the Riksdag of the Estates is pressured to call on King Charles XIV – by now popularly perceived as sliding into reactionary and somewhat delusional ultra-conservatism – to abdicate the thrones of Sweden and Norway.

EITHER: Charles refuses outright, and Sweden-Norway is plunged into a civil war of sorts.

OR: Charles caves in, and Oscar becomes King of Sweden-Norway four years ahead of OTL.

 

[Swede]

While I don't understand why Karl XIV Johan would get upset, I also know I have no clue to what he'd like/dislike Such a conflict within the royal family just feels very realistic.
For the Riksdag to use this coflict for its own puposes also feels very right, at first subtly but the more entrenched the conflict between king and heir, the more obvious the power-grabs by the Riksdag.

Scandinavism could possibly be born earlier if it is clear that the two lines will merge, but since that doesn't seem to be the case at first (there's still Christian VIII's brother to consider) it might not. By the time it is starting to look like the kingdoms will be united the relations between them would change quite a bit, as would the relations between the Swedish and Norwegian goverments (IMO Norway would see it as a possible route to geting equal standing with .se and .dk within the future Union).

I'm not sure the Scandinavian army would beat Germany/Prussia even if united. Moltke staying on "our" side would help, but industrial capacity and manpower of a united Scandinavia wouldn't be all that great anyway. The way I se it Germany would win, but far less clearly. The end result of the peacetreaty could be similar to OTL current border.
/does in fact not know all that much about the relative streangth of the two sides in those wars.

Having the agrarian areas alienated by the industralisation of the Öresund and Mälardalen regions is probably inevitable. One possible aspect is a united railwayexpansion program, then again how would that change things? A fixed link between Denmark and Sweden is still not going to be built at least til mid 20thC IMO.

I'm not so sure Scandinavia would launch into the Polish situation so readily (possible political crisis?) since Sweden's stayed officially neutral since Napolean was defeated.
And since Brittain and russia would have a keen interest in keeping the access to the Baltic Sea open in case of war I can see them getting consesions in the way of a declared neutrality.
/just some thoughts.

As for the Karl14/Oscar conflict giong as far as civil war, I don't see it. Civil war just aint us, but having a tense situation lasting for a couple of years...
the result would IMO be Karl XIV staying on the throne, but him having to concede the "win" to Oscar.

 

[Justin Pickard]

While I don't understand why Karl XIV Johan would get upset, I also know I have no clue to what he'd like/dislike Such a conflict within the royal family just feels very realistic.

Charles XIV and Christian VIII were rivals for the throne of Norway, and I very much doubt the Charles would have been overjoyed to find that his son and heir had fallen for the only child of Christian.

Scandinavism could possibly be born earlier if it is clear that the two lines will merge, but since that doesn't seem to be the case at first (there's still Christian VIII's brother to consider) it might not. By the time it is starting to look like the kingdoms will be united the relations between them would change quite a bit, as would the relations between the Swedish and Norwegian goverments (IMO Norway would see it as a possible route to geting equal standing with .se and .dk within the future Union).

I was thinking that Scandinavianism would be born at roughly the same time, but with some precursory works which would ultimately strengthen it. Perhaps getting the works of Nicolai Grundtvig (1783-1872), Esaias Tegnér (1782-1846), and Erik Gustaf Geijer (1783-1847) organised into some kind of heroic romantic movement early on, and shunting it into the mainstream would help. By the time that TTL Frederick VII (brother of Christian VIII) and his wife are at an age where children look increasingly unlikely, I would think that Frederick and Oscar would be starting to make the necessary political movements needed to ensure union after their deaths.

I'm not sure the Scandinavian army would beat Germany/Prussia even if united. Moltke staying on "our" side would help, but industrial capacity and manpower of a united Scandinavia wouldn't be all that great anyway. The way I se it Germany would win, but far less clearly. The end result of the peacetreaty could be similar to OTL current border.

The thing to bear in mind here, is spiralling capacity. If both sides drag in allies, then something a lot bigger and more explosive could happen earlier, perhaps incorperating some of the tensions of the Franco-Prussian War and the Austro-Prussian struggle for dominance in Germany.

Having the agrarian areas alienated by the industralisation of the Öresund and Mälardalen regions is probably inevitable. One possible aspect is a united railwayexpansion program, then again how would that change things? A fixed link between Denmark and Sweden is still not going to be built at least til mid 20thC IMO.

We might be looking at canals, as well as railways, although I suppose winter ice might prove a problem. Hmm...perhaps if Oscar and subsequent monarchs avoid economic protectionism, and take a more proactive role in trade and foreign affairs, the Union might last.

I'm not so sure Scandinavia would launch into the Polish situation so readily (possible political crisis?) since Sweden's stayed officially neutral since Napolean was defeated. And since Brittain and russia would have a keen interest in keeping the access to the Baltic Sea open in case of war I can see them getting consesions in the way of a declared neutrality.

Fair point.

As for the Karl14/Oscar conflict giong as far as civil war, I don't see it. Civil war just aint us, but having a tense situation lasting for a couple of years...
the result would IMO be Karl XIV staying on the throne, but him having to concede the "win" to Oscar.

So, Charles XIV, unwilling to relinquish the throne, has his powers severely curtailed by the Riksdag - essentially reduced to the status of a constitutional monarch in all but name. He is not happy about this, and dies in 1842, presumably from frustration. How does that sound?

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Incidentally, on a different note, when I carry this a bit further through, the royal butterflies look to be great fun. The British, Russian and Belgian monarchies will be totally changed in the longer term, and Greece will end up with a monarchy from the House of Bernadotte.

 

[Justin Pickard]

In 1829, at the University of Lund in Sweden, Scandinavianism – a romantic nationalist movement which stressed the common cultural heritage of Sweden, Denmark and Norway – was born. Combined with the public denunciation of the Crown Prince by his father, the public perception of King Charles XIV is souring quickly. By 1840, public opinion is such that the Riksdag of the Estates is pressured to call on King Charles XIV – by now popularly perceived as sliding into reactionary and somewhat delusional ultra-conservatism – to abdicate the thrones of Sweden and Norway. Charles refuses outright and so with the support of much of the Swedish nobility, if not the people, maintains his hold on the throne, albeit with his powers severely curtailed by the Riksdag. He dies two years later, in April 1842. His forty-three year old son, Oscar, succeeds him as King of Sweden and Norway. Open to reform, the first five years of his reign see a rapid succession of far-reaching, pro-Scandinavian reforms.

In January 1848, King Christian VIII of Denmark becomes ill. Despite the avoidance of outright violence in Scandinavia, the Revolutions of 1848 see liberal reforms, with the establishment of a bicameral national assembly, with one chamber elected by universal male suffrage. In Sweden-Norway however, the events of 1848 put the brakes on Oscar’s rampant reformism. The start of period of internal strengthening coincides with the First War of Schleswig. In February, the twin duchies of Schleswig-Holstein, nominally Danish territories, erupted in separatist rebellion, with the German population of Schleswig, and the most of Holstein identifying more with Germany than Denmark. Prussia, having narrowly suppressed revolution in Berlin, saw an opportunity to reassert her damaged prestige. Prussian troops occupied Holstein, and were ordered similarly to enter Schleswig. However, the Prussians had failed to pre-empt the actions of the European powers, with the United Kingdom and Sweden providing strong opposition to any ‘dismemberment’ of Denmark, and Austria refusing to assist Prussia, for fear of diplomatic repercussions. Prussia rapidly withdraws its troops, and agrees to a truce while further discussions are held. Diplomacy is interrupted in May, when King Christian VIII dies from blood poisoning. Succeeded by his younger brother, who becomes King Frederick VII (1792-1863), Christian’s death triggers further secessionist rebellion in Schleswig. Claiming the childlessness of Frederick VII proves a threat to Salic traditions, outright warfare between Germany and Denmark recommences.

 

[Justin Pickard]

The War of Schleswig-Holstein (1848-49)

Initially, it seems that the army of the German Confederation is making rapid headway, reoccupying Holstein and taking the southernmost third of Schleswig by the end of 1848. In light of this sudden onslaught, however, King Oscar of Sweden-Norway pledges 18,000 troops to the Danes who manage, by May 1849, to rout the German troops back to the Eider River, where a stalemate is reached. A number of small scale skirmishes over the coming month end inconclusively, with no real territorial gains, and both sides weakened equally. Many of the delegates to the Frankfurt Parliament consider backing the engagement of further German troops, but faction struggles delay the process. By the time Frankfurt reaches positive conclusion, the British – fearful of the consequences of Prussian expansion – acquiesce to the pleas of Denmark and Sweden, using the Royal Navy to blockade Prussian ports through the summer and autumn of 1849. These blockades precipitate an acute food shortage in North Germany, which sustains public discontent and revolutionary activities in Prussia, forcing them to the negotiating table by the end of October 1849.

Hosted by Tsar Nicholas I, the Treaty of Moscow was signed by Denmark, Sweden, Prussia, and the United Kingdom in December 1849. Schleswig and Holstein were to be separated at the Eider River. Schleswig would be incorporated into a unitary Danish state, whilst the Duchy of Holstein would become an independent German state under the premiership of Frederick of Augustenberg (1829-80), who would become the Duke of Holstein.

 

[Justin Pickard]

Dynastic Interlude (MAJOR BUTTERFLIES)

Here's a bit of royal dynastic handwaving. The children were determined randomly(ish) with the aid of a calculator and a number of dice.

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ALTERNATE MARRIAGES 1850-59:

King Charles XV (1827-89) to Louise of the Netherlands (1828-71) in 1852
- Prince Oscar (1853-54)
- The Princess Caroline (1855-)
- The Princess Louise (185
- King Wilhelm of the [Three Kingdoms?] (1859-)

Frederick I of Baden (1826-1907) to Princess Caroline (1832-1903) in 1853
- Sophia (1855-)
- Frederick II, Grand Duke of Baden (1859-)
- Alexander (1860-)

Unmarried: Sophia of Nassau (1836-1913)

ALTERNATE MARRIAGES 1860-69:

Nicholas of Nassau (1832-1905) to Princess Maria (1837-69) in 1860
- George (1862-)
- William (1863-)
- Gustav (1867-) [twin]
- Oscar (1867-) [twin]
- Charlotte (1869) [mother and child die in childbirth]

Louis IV of Hesse-Darmstadt (1837-92) to Louise Hohenzollern (1838-1923) in 1861
- Elizabeth, Grand Duchess of Hesse-Darmstadt (1863-)
- Charles (1867-68)

King William of the Hellenes (1840-1911) to Alice Saxe-Coburg (1843-78) in 1861
- Queen Alexandra of the Hellenes (1863-)
- The Princess Beatrice (1864-)
- The Princess Sophie (186
- The Princess Mary (1872-)
- Prince Charles (1873) [dies in infancy]

King Edward VII (1841-1910) to Mary Hohenzollern (1845-1912) in 1865
- The Princess Victoria, Princess Royal (1866-)
- King George V (1867-)
- The Princess Caroline (1868) [dies in infancy]
- The Princess Louise (1872-)
- Prince Edward (1875-)
- Prince Albert (1877-)
- The Princess Josephine (187

Unmarried (as of 1870): Tsar Alexander III of Russia (1845-94), Olga Konstantinovna (1851-1926)

 

[Swede]

Having helped keep at least part of Schleswig-Holstein (i.e. Schleswig) Danish I'd say there'd be a triumphant feel to the pan-Scandinavism for at least a few years, and as it becoming very likely that Scandiavia will unite under one king it might even get a wee bit smug/gloating in its triumphalism. The question is will it be used by conservative forces or by liberal ones (i.e. will it be a mostly anti- or pro- full democracy?).

Long term I do see the Union holding, with an actual UK-style single country union emerging as the three kingdoms move ever closer to modern democracy. Not sure how this would affect the status of Iceland - equality with the three kingdoms or something else?

As for all the alternate royal/noble marriages, I don't know enough about it to tell many diffrences from OTL, but I do like the detailed work

 

[Justin Pickard]

In 1851, Denmark passes the Constitution Act, establishing a unitary Danish state, encompassing Denmark, Schleswig, the Faeroe Islands, and Iceland under the two chambers of the Riksdag. This coincides with a period of intense migration within the Schleswig region, and a programme of cultural ‘Danification’. 1851 also sees the publication of ‘The Giants’ by Hans Christian Anderson (1805-75), a work of children’s literature which drew heavily on Norse mythology. This work begets a distinct heroic pseudo-mythological movement, which eventually comes to have a profound impact on Scandinavian culture, and – with the completion of Wagner’s Ring Cycle in the 1870s – that of Germany and Western Europe as well. (1)

In 1852, Carl Ludwig Eugéne Bernadotte - eldest son of King Oscar of Sweden-Norway – marries Louise of the Netherlands. The wedding takes place in the Cathedral of Christiania, Norway (2). This provides the impetus for a dialogue between Oscar and Frederick VII of Denmark on the potential, in the absence of any heirs to the Kingdom of Denmark, for an eventual dynastic union of Scandinavia. Intermittent talks conclude the following summer on a broadly positive note, with Oscar and Frederick agreeing to a number of broad areas for convergence, including economic and foreign policy, and the potential for an amendment to Danish succession laws.

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(1) The inhabitants of TTL will probably be condemned to endure a grimmer brand of Tolkein-esque ‘swords and sorcery’ for the rest of time…

(2) What Oslo was called from 1624 to 1877 in OTL (named after King Christian IV of Denmark and Norway). Shameless appeasment of Norwegians, I know.

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Having helped keep at least part of Schleswig-Holstein (i.e. Schleswig) Danish I'd say there'd be a triumphant feel to the pan-Scandinavism for at least a few years, and as it becoming very likely that Scandiavia will unite under one king it might even get a wee bit smug/gloating in its triumphalism. The question is will it be used by conservative forces or by liberal ones (i.e. will it be a mostly anti- or pro- full democracy?).

Long term I do see the Union holding, with an actual UK-style single country union emerging as the three kingdoms move ever closer to modern democracy. Not sure how this would affect the status of Iceland - equality with the three kingdoms or something else?

As for all the alternate royal/noble marriages, I don't know enough about it to tell many diffrences from OTL, but I do like the detailed work

Firstly, I don't think that it will be monopolised by either conservative or liberal forces, but both will attempt to capitalise on 'their' successes.

The Union will hold, probably gradually transforming into something else, which incorporates Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Schleswig, the Faeroe Islands, Iceland and possibly more...

As for the alternate marriages, believe me, the differences from OTL will soon begin to be felt.

 

[Romulus Augustulus]

What will become of Finland? I don't think a united Scandinavia will exactly be content with Russian ownership of it...

 

[Justin Pickard]

What will become of Finland? I don't think a united Scandinavia will exactly be content with Russian ownership of it...

I can't see any overt moves to take Finland until the 1890s at the earliest. I do have something in mind for the longer term, but I'm not totally sure whether it'll work yet, so I'm keeping it under wraps.

 

[Swede]

The Union will hold, probably gradually transforming into something else, which incorporates Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Schleswig, the Faeroe Islands, Iceland and possibly more...

Don't forget, St. Barts and the OTL US Virgin Islands are still in Scandinavian hands at this point. Not much, but could be used both as a proof of power (hey, we got colonies too) or as bargaining chips in peace-treaties.

Finland is going to be a serious issue. On the one hand it is still very much something that a united Scandinavia will try to get back, but on the other it is held by Russia. If there were internal troubles in Russia then Finland could go its own way (per OTL), tho since the nationalism in Finland was Fenno-centric I'm not sure the people would be in favour of re-joining Sweden (at the least not by the 1900s). A defence and momnetary union wouldn't be turned down IMO...