The Terrible Thirties

British and German Naval Strength (Battleships/Battlecruisers)

Home Waters

BRITISH

4 Hoods
5 Queen Elizabeths
4 Iron Dukes
1 Tiger

plus Reserve (mobilising) of

2 Lions
3 (decreasing to 2) King Goerge Vs


GERMAN

2 Deutschlands
4 Badens
2 Mackensens
4 Konigs
2 Derfflingers

plus Reserve (not yet mobilisnig) of

1 Seydlitz
1 Moltke
1 Von der Tann
5 Kaisers

(Also in existence are 2 Ostfrieslands and 4 Nassaus but these are considered worthless in the battleline and are used in harbour guard roles or are hulked)


Mediterranean

BRITISH

Currently based at Malta are :-

2 Repulse
5 'R' class


Against this, so far, can be counted the

ITALIANS

1 Carraciolo
3 Conte di Cavour
2 Caio Duilio

and in Reserve (mobilising)

1 Dante Alighieri


Among nations considered potential enemies in the Mediterranean, the

AUSTRIANS have 3 Viribus Unitis

and the

SPANISH have 2 Espana

neither of which causes much concern on their own


Australia

Deployed to the theatre are

BRITISH

4 Britannia class (for want of a unique name !)

JAPANESE

3 Amagis

against, at least hypothetically,

GERMANY

2 Mackensens

AUSTRALIA

1 Australia


Also in the area and potentially available to the British is

NEW ZEALAND

1 New Zealand

Plus whatever reinforcements from Japan may become available over time



Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Ah, thank you! I seemed to remember them being in December for some reason, though I know things were different back in the 30s. IIRC, inauguration now is in January, but back then was it in March ?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

Yes. FDR was the last US President inaugurated in March.
 
Very interesting!

I can see the questioning of the British ultimatum, but I agree that the British have little choice. They can't confront the German squadron without risking war. They can't allow the Japanese to do the same. They can't allow the status quo to continue.

It does seem to me that the Government is a bit precipitous in ordering the Royal Marines to take Perth, but I suppose Churchill is giving them orders and this is TTL's version of a General Strike. Plus, I have to imagine that the British government feels very edgy with the crisis of 1929.

The lack of a Great Depression makes sense, given the avoidance of reparations, ensuing inflation, and consequent financial crises. Also, it seems like Britain and the US don't resort to protectionism. Even if Wall Street has avoided a crash, I think FDR probably institutes something like the SEC reforms (not as sweeping though). In the absense of an all-out Depression to stimulate calls for a New Deal swath of dometic programs, FDR may latch on to the arms race as an economic stimulus package. As a clarification, the 22nd and 21st Amendments (the former shortening the length of the lame duck period by moving inauguration to January and the latter repealing Prohibition) were measures passed by the 100 Days. It seems like FDR may still be associated with some kind of reform, given the Naval Policy that ratchets up under his leadership so perhaps both are passed anyway. Also, why doesn't Daniels run again in 1932?

So all in all, a very interesting beginning! I particularly like how the constitutional nature / vagueness of the British Empire (the dominions are almost sovereign but not quite) results in the casus belli!

A few questions:

1 - How is Latin America? Has the avoidance of the Great Depression allowed Argentina to continue its development?

2 - With all the ruckus in Australia, what's happening in Siberia? Why doesn't Germany pursue a peace when the front stabilizes and the Russian succession is determined? It seems like they're spoiling for a fight. This may be what you're going for, that Germany issuance of a "blank check" like diplomatic order creates a series of crises that mount into a seemingly inevitable (though highly avoidable and contingent) conflict.

3 - What's happening in China? I seem to remember things were stable there; are they going to take sides in the war?

4 - After going back, I'm thinking that the US Presidents have some issues. First is as above, why doesn't Daniels run again? Next, it seems to big deal to have FDR run for Governor of NY in 1928 but he then steps down to serve in Daniels' Cabinet. If I were Smith, I'd be miffed. It seems an easy compromise to have Daniels serve two terms and have FDR replace him as heir to the Naval Policy (despite his age).
 
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I suspect that if FDR tried to take action against Australia he would get a hostile reception from the Congress. It should also be noted that Alfred E Smith began to turn against FDR after some of his policies and more so when he ran for re-election in 1940. Smith considered running for the US Senate so as to oppose FDR in the congress.
 
Regarding Australia I suspect that if the British carried out the actions that you are proposing that it would rally the entire country around the Nationalist Government. In addition all of the veterans of the first World War would flock to the colors and any landing by British troops would be bitterly opposed. I suspect that once force was used against Australia that there would be a negative reaction in New Zealand. it might also bring down the British government.
 
Regarding Australia I suspect that if the British carried out the actions that you are proposing that it would rally the entire country around the Nationalist Government. In addition all of the veterans of the first World War would flock to the colors and any landing by British troops would be bitterly opposed. I suspect that once force was used against Australia that there would be a negative reaction in New Zealand. it might also bring down the British government.

I agree about the effect of British intervention on Australian opinion, but not about New Zealand. If the Aussies are talking about aggrandizement, the Kiwis will get anxious. Given the speeches GW describes during the Duke of York's visit, I imagine some in Auckalnd and Wellington will say something like "the criminals are getting their due." I seem to remember New Zealand was fairly attached to the Empire (and the Royal Family in particular).

I do think you might want to add some Japanese movement toward Australia which the Aussies might perceive as threatening. Here it just looks like latent fear. Unless the Nationalists are the White Australia folks, in which case the Yellow Peril may be enough.
 
While New Zealand may be loyal to the empire I believe that Veterans of the First World War who served with the Aussies might not be happy about the Empire's action. I also expect that there might be a lot more problems with the public in the British Isles and possible a negative reaction in Canada.
 
The first political crisis of the war comes with Churchill, in his role of Secretary of State for War, attempting to pressurise the First Lord of the Admiralty into recalling some of the battleships deployed to the Mediterranean. Arguing that they were sent there primarily as a deterrent and that now this has failed the force is by far strong enough to face any potential Italian threat and to lose a couple of major units back to the Home Fleet, Churchill wins the backing of Foreign Secretary Neville Chamberlain. The First Lord appeals to the Prime Minister but is instructed to release two of the R class at once. In anger he resigns and is replaced by someone more compliant.

The Ramillies and Resolution sail from Malta for home, as every eye is on the German fleet to see if it will take advantage of its temporary parity in numbers. But the Germans do nothing.


Off Australia, this is far from being the case. Understanding that the immobility of the four Britannia class battleships at Perth will last only as long as no reinforcements arrive to allow the return of sailors to their ships, Raeder decides to act whilst he has the opportunity.

In a secret agreement, the Australian cabinet agree to place the Australian navy under his tactical command. With his flag on the Mackensen and accompanied by the Graf Spee and the Australia they set out for the Coral Sea, accompanied by the six light cruisers of the German squadron and the four cruisers of the Australian navy, which also provides destroyers and auxiliaries

Australian submarines, already mobilised, head to form a picket line, but the most useful defence is provided by the aerial squadrons, composed of long-range aircraft as they are


Off the Northern coast of the South-Eastern peninsular, the juncture of the British East Asian Fleet and the Japanese task force is not so easy going. Neither side accepts the supremacy of the other so a joint command structure is agreed. In addition, the Hosho's aircraft have much shorter range than the land-based German ones, and the fleet is forced to keep its distance from the shore, thus preventing their benig able to intervene with repeated aerial attacks upon the landing party


In Madrid, the Spanish government decides not to declare war on Britain, and orders its forces in France to withdraw to a secure perimeter North of the Pyrenees.

German aerial units fly in to take possession of the vacated country, transports flying in veterans of the Siberian War who put down sputtering Bonapartist risings before they can properly get going.

The German Foreign Minister meets with King Jean III of France in Paris and agrees to send in German ground units as and when required. In the meantime, the king gives permission for German aerial squadrons to establish bases in the Pas de Calais area


The British Expeditionary Force, covered by the battlefleet and the RAF above successfully completes the landing of 100,000 men, linking up with Bonapartist forces and pressing East to establish control of Brittany and the Vendee.


The Battle of the Coral Sea

Japanese aircraft from the Hosho sight the advancing Australian-German fleet, but sighting the aircraft in return, Raeder manoevres Northwards to bring his force under the protection of the land-based aircraft based around Port Moresby.

Misreading this as a move towards the landing beaches on the other side of the peninsular, the Japanese-British force commits to battle at an aerial disadvantage. Detaching the Hosho and a light escort to the East, they head into battle

The Hosho will spend the battle, sending up sorties from far out, that come in, launch and fly off, most of the time under fire not only from the German AA weaponry but from land-based fighter aicraft. In contrast, the British-Japanese force is constantly harrassed by land-based aircraft and added to this disruption is the non-unified command which causes delay and confusion in the heat of battle


Expecting news of a great victory, the British cabinet is shocked when the ashen-faced First Lord of the Admiralty brings the news next morning that the New Zealand government is reporting that contact has been made by the Hosho informing them of the loss of the rest of the fleet

The disaster is not quite so definitive, nor the reality so one-sided as the initial report suggests, but it gets out into the public arena, dis-spiriting the mood in a way that the later revision cannot reflate

It turns out that whilst the Tosa and Atago have indeed been lost, the Akagi and most of the Japanese cruisers escaped to the North. However, the British East Asian Fleet has been annihilated, and the landing beaches shelled by the Germans

On the other side, the Australia has been sunk and two of the four Australian cruisers put out of action, one a fire-ravaged wreck and the other beached to prevent her sinking. The Germans suffered heavy damage to the Graf Spee but the Mackensen along with the other cruisers and the Australian destroyers remained in command of the sea.


In London, Churchill presses for immediate dispatch of forces to Perth to take up control of the city. With such a large number of sailors involved in holding the city down, the battle squadron there cannot leave unless it relinquishes what it fought to attain.

Arguments rage fiercely in the cabinet about sending the forces garrisoning Egypt. The Ottoman Empire has formally declared its neutrality, and no one in London seriously expects any threat from the Italians in Libya. However, there is great cause for concern in the attitude of the king, and fears that if the garrison is withdrawn he will declare neutrality himself, and not allow British forces to return.

In the end, units from India are sent to Australia, against Eden's pleas that the spate of uprisings there will only get worse if the symbols of empire are seen to be departing. But with the Union of South Africa still neutral, and New Zealand on the wrong side of the continental nation, troops from India are deemed to be the only effective way of getting immediate reinforcement to Perth


In the Mediterranean a half-hearted Italian sortie towards Malta is chased off by the British fleet, inflicting some slight damage. But such is the starvation of the newspaper in terms of positive news from the navy that this is trumpeted as a great victory.


Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Summer 1933

June 1933 sees something of a turn-around in fortunes. Army units from India relieve the Navy in Perth, and push on into the interior.

The navy crews return to their ships, and the four powerful Britannia class battleships put to sea, along with a numerous escort of cruisers and destroyers sent from their bases in India and the Red Sea

The Imperial Japanese Navy despatches a powerful force led by the Nagato and including her sister the Mutsu as well as the Ise and Hyuga and a strong force of cruisers and destroyers. It is joined by the Hosho and heads for New Guinea


With the Graf Spee unable to make a decent speed, Raeder has her positioned as a guard ship to Port Moresby, and transfers some of her crew among the rest of his force, replacing losses in combat.

However, Raeder's options are limited as he has nowhere else to go, and his force is not strong enough to take on either of the two closing in on him. He despatches two of the German cruisers West into the Indian Ocean with orders to harry trade and/or make for Tanganyika. Similarly two more cruisers are sent into the North Pacific. With the Mackensen and the remaining German and Australian cruisers he chooses to retire towards Australia proper and await developments

One of the cruisers dispatched North, the Koln runs afoul of the Akagi which is returning with additional cruisers by a different route than the main Japanese force. The other, the Magdeburg slips through and begins a short but fruitful career as a commerce raider on the fringes of the former German islands, her captain advised by a first officer who had previously been posted to them in happier times


German cavalry and artillery units parade through Paris enroute to the front, whilst German administrators taking over the battered French railway succeed in shifting large numbers of infantry West to where the Orleanist commanders urgently require them

The first clashes between British and German forces occur at Rennes, and the British heavy tanks, seeing action for the first time, carry the day, driving the Germans back upon Le Mans.

German airforce units from the Pas de Calais constantly raid the South-West of England, and the aerial war of the last war is taken up in full. British counter raids bomb the airfields, but the newspapers are well aware that whilst German aircraft can bomb Britain, British aircraft are only succeeding in bombing France.


'Flaming August' sees widespread fighting across India as Bose's call continues to find resonance amongst many.


Back off Australia, additional British reniforcements allow the Britannia-led battlesquadron, now rechristened the Southern Fleet, to take Tasmania, occupying Hobart after a siege of several days and establishing a base from which to threaten the rest of Australia.

New Zealand army units sail to the Solomons and the Bismarck Archipelago, escorted by the battlecruiser New Zealand linking up with the Akagi and her cruisers.

The main Japanese force lands aircraft on the islands in support of the New Zealand landings, landings which see New Zealanders fighting short but sharp engagements against the defending Australians.

With method and sense, the Japanese begin to man airfields and start to fly sorties from them over New Guinea, engaging the remaining German aerial forces in a constant and wearing battle.

Japanese cruisers supported at a distance by pairs of battleships raid South into the Coral Sea and begin to inflict damage on Australian trade. However the torpedoing by an Australian submarine of the Mutsu, which staggers back under half power, curtails these operations for the moment


Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
August - October 1933

British success at Rennes inspires Churchill to push for greater daring from the armed forces. As Secretary of State for War he has no immediate authority over the First Lord of the Admiralty and the Minister for Air, but with Austen Chamberlain providing no resolute leadership, Churchill is able to get his way and joint measures are agreed upon

With the German fleet still largely inactive, and u-boats only deployed in limited numbers in the North Sea, the Home Fleet has almost complete freedom of action, apart from the Channel around the Pas de Calais area where the German aerial squadrons often swoop down on shipping as an alternative to the constant, but still somewhat desultory, bombing of London, Dover and Chatham.

Canada's adhesion to Imperial policy has resulted in the arrival of the Canadian Expeditionary Force in Britain, a significant number of infantry and aircraft, together with some prototype medium tanks constructed by the Canadian armaments industry

Even as the British and Bonapartists push at Le Mans, a second front is opened with an amphibious descent upon the Seine estuary, supported by the Home Fleet and covered by huge numbers of RAF and RCAF aircraft flying both out of Southern England and out of Brittany. Taking Le Havre and Harfeur, the largely Canadian ground forces press quickly inland towards Rouen, completely taking the Orleanists by surprise

With German involvement keyed to the Le Mans front, and other German units spread across the South in place of withdrawn Spanish units, it is the Orleanist French army which takes the brunt of the assault and which begins to give ground at an alarming rate

Intervention by the German aerial forces from the Pas de Calais region sees huge losses which soon result in British raids flattening the German airfields there and completely hamstringing German airforce abilities

Although the Orleanists rally to defend Rouen, the landing of further troops allows a drive to the West, capturing Caen and threatening to link up with forces out of Brittany, thus cutting off Normandy completely


In Berlin these events are met with stunned surprise. The main focus for both army and airforce had remained the hard fought Siberian campaign, with the French front getting attention as and when necessary. The series of reverses touches off a galvanisation in German thinking, seeing the wholesale replacement of the old-timers responsible for policy in the West and the slotting in of successful new men hastily withdrawn from Siberia.

As with the previous year's withdrawal of aerial units from this front, this action causes serious dislocation and sets back German advances there, but the Japanese and FER remain very much on the backfoot, and a faltering in the rate of advance is judged by Berlin to be acceptable losses


Looking to build on success and achieve a breakthrough, Churchill gains cabinet approval for another adventurous stroke. Old cruisers, accompanied by the reactivated battleships King George V and Ajax force the approaches to Cherbourg, whilst a flying column from Brittany pushes up the Cotentin Peninsular towards the city.

For a moment it looks as if the move will succeed, but German reinforcements hastily sent via Paris attack Caen and then drive West to cut off the flying column. Cherbourg's citadel continues to hold out for King Jean III, whilst U-274, having made the long journey around the North of Great Britain and entered the Channel from the West torpedoes and sinks the Ajax

September also sees a first in European war, a paratroop drop by an elite German unit which had played several small scale successes out in Siberia already. Landing outside Cherbourg they fight their way in, relieve the citadel and reconnect it to supply lines stretching down towards Caen which is now under total siege by German forces

Churchill orders the navy to evacuate from Cherbourg, taking the survivors of the Bonapartist flying column with them. The next day Caen falls too


A Change at the Top

Austen Chamberlain, worn out by the strain of repeated crises, fails to wake up one morning shortly afterwards and the news is announced at Midday that the Prime Minister is dead. King Edward VIII invites Churchill to form a government, much to dismay and annoyance of Neville Chamberlain who had come to regard himself as his brother's heir

With much anxiety in the newspapers over the reverses at Cherbourg and Caen, Churchill undertakes a cabinet reshuffle and offers seats to the leaders of those parties who voted with the government for war. Mosley jumps at the opportunity, and after considering his option Lloyd George says he will agree as long as the Liberals get two seats, seeing as how they are so much larger than the BDP

With Churchill now Prime Minister, Mosley is appointed to the War Office. Chamberlain is rotated from the Foreign Office to the Chancellorship, whilst Eden is happy to leave the India Office to become Foreign Secretary. Lloyd George becomes Home Secretary, whilst Lord Halifax takes up the mantle at the India Office.

Places go to Churchill's old friend, and fellow minister from the Great War, Lord Beaverbrook, and to Archibald Sinclair as the second Liberal. Duff Cooper, a protege of Churchill's, is elevated to the Admiralty where the former First Lord is cast aside as a scapegoat for the failure at Cherbourg, for all that it was Churchill's own policy


Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Technical and Military Notes

Luftstreitkrafte

The Imperial German Army Air Service has seen constant development. At first this might not be immediately obvious since the decade of the 1920s saw little direct German action. However, in support of her White Russian allies, at first against the Bolsheviks, then in Central Asia and latterly in the Siberian war against the FER and the Japanese, the German aviation industry has remained at the technological cutting edge.

The qualitative development has been matched over the last couple of years with a quantative development as the German Empire became drawn directly into war in the Far East. In terms of innovation and flexibility, the Luftstreitkrafte is the most advanced of the German armed services, and this has allowed it to deploy as required to other theatres in a largely successful fashion.

The manufacturers from the Great War remain largely dominant in the provision of aircraft for the Empire, successive governments having spread contracts around according to niche expertise and novel developments, as well as to proven abilities to mass produce.

Thus the names of Zeppelin-Staaken and Gotha can be found amongst the long-distance bombers, those of Halberstadt, Albatross and Fokker amongst the fighters, with Junkers, DFW, BFW, Dornier, Siemens-Schuckert &c spread amongst all varieties.

Long-distance bombers, paratroop-carrying transports and close-attack fighters are all playing a prominent role in the early months of the Second World War


British Tanks

Although the Lloyd George government of the mid 1920s did not take up the production of the Vickers heavy tank it did award repeated development contracts to the company, and by the 1929 election a new prototype was on show. This was the vehicle blown up by a bridge bomb during the tumultuous election campaign, and was the basis for the order of 30 which followed immediately afterwards.

100 of these heavy tanks are now deployed in France, and won their spurs at the Battle of Rennes, helping to defeat the German armies. However, as the Germans did in around Le Mans, there has been little chance for them to repeat these achievements


Canada

The Canadian armaments industry has remained strong and separate from that of the mother country since the end of the Great War. As part of the policy of pursuing an independent dominion policy, Canada has continued to equip its forces with ships built in its own yards (other than the battleship which was ordered from the United States), vehicles built in its own factories, and guns and aircraft developed independently by its own designers.

The Canadian Expeditionary Force thus arrived in England as a fully-equipped and unique entity, equipped with Canadian-built medium tanks, and with squadrons of the Royal Canadian Air Force flying aircraft of a design different from any Bitish squadron. The tanks proved their worth in the advance out of the Seine estuary bridgeheads, but proved unable to take Rouen before sufficient Orleanist defenders could be brought up. The RCAF won its spurs in knocking down the aircraft of the German Pas de Calais squadrons, and in keeping the bridghead secure. However, it has proven less effective against German ground forces, and was unable to prevent the fall of Caen.


The German Navy

This force currently lacks strategic direction, having no forceful figure such as Tirpitz to direct its policy. One of its most senior admirals, Raeder, was chosen to command the expeditionary force to the Far East, and though his actions as plenipotentiary in Australia have been very effective, his force is too small and too isolated to achieve much in the overall scheme of things. Its victory at the Battle of the Coral Sea was hard-won and expensive, and the remaining vessels too small a fighting force to take on either of the British or Japanese forces closing in on it. Thus, he has detached those cruisers capable of operating on their own, and retired from immediate confrontation to keep what remains of his force intact for as long as possible

There are many in the German Empire who wish that Raeder had taken a stronger force with him, but at the time of his dispatch the Admiralty were keen to avoid any repeat of TsuShima. Raeder was to try to impede Japanese moves in the North Pacific if he arrived in time, or he was to avoid battle altogether. There were concerns that had he been supplied with a significant battle line the temptation to take on the Japanese would have been overwhelming and the consequences potentially disastrous

As it is, though, Raeder's force is the German Empire's only active surface force so far in the war. Many observers look at the High Seas Fleet sitting at anchor and wish that some of it at least could be sent to aid the valianet admiral down under. Much better use of the warships could be made if they were somewhere where their numbers and their strength might actually count for something.

Despite having numerical, and possibly qualitative, parity with the RN Home Fleet at the start of the war, the High Seas Fleet has remained inactive. Its commanders have a defensive attitude, and view the strategic situation as having so far proved them right - there has been no British descent on the Bight, no British attempt to enter the Baltic, no British seaborne aerial raids against the North Sea coast. However, this recital of null victories is hardly the sort of thing to inspire the German press or the German people, and there is a rising chorus of criticism of the navy's inaction.

Only the submarine wing of the navy has had any successes in home waters, sinking a score or so of British auxiliaries, and the old battleships Centurion and Ajax. However, the u-boats are not being used strategically, the government and the Admiralty having no wish to risk provoking neutral nations by a repeat of unrestricted submarine warfare.

This complacency is the result of Germany's hegemonic position within Europe for the last dozen years. Its leaders did not feel threatened by Britain, especially with Orleanist France as an ally, and with the High Seas Fleet deemed sufficient to prevent any British aggression against Germany directly. However, British actions on the high seas are now beginning to severely impact German trade, and the affected companies are leading the calls for something to be done.

As with the army's shake-up after the reverses of high Summer, it is felt by many that the time is right to shake out the dead wood and reinvigorate the service with a new generation who have the vision of what to do in current conditions. However, unlike the army or the airforce, there are no such people of proven abilities from actions on other fronts. If the navy is to have a clean sweep of its commanders it would be bringing in untried and untested men, and hence the hesitation in high places to act too precipitatiously.


Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Nicomacheus said:
As a clarification, the 22nd and 21st Amendments (the former shortening the length of the lame duck period by moving inauguration to January and the latter repealing Prohibition) were measures passed by the 100 Days. It seems like FDR may still be associated with some kind of reform, given the Naval Policy that ratchets up under his leadership so perhaps both are passed anyway. Also, why doesn't Daniels run again in 1932?

Daniels is 72 IIRC by 1932. In addition, he is associated with Prohibition, having instituted it in the Navy in 1914, before it became nationwide. A combination of both factors would result in his not standing. It is generally agreed in the country that Prohibition has to go, and a new younger generation stands ready to take control of the situation and lead the country on.

I reckon you are right, and in this timeline both Amendments are passed too

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Nicomacheus said:
Next, it seems to big deal to have FDR run for Governor of NY in 1928 but he then steps down to serve in Daniels' Cabinet. If I were Smith, I'd be miffed. It seems an easy compromise to have Daniels serve two terms and have FDR replace him as heir to the Naval Policy (despite his age).

Would he need to have stood down ? I thought the Homeland Security guy was both Governor and Secretary ? If this is a new development, then I guess he DID stand down. On that basis, Smith would be retaking the governorship from FDR's temporary replacement I suppose.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
While New Zealand may be loyal to the empire I believe that Veterans of the First World War who served with the Aussies might not be happy about the Empire's action. I also expect that there might be a lot more problems with the public in the British Isles and possible a negative reaction in Canada.

Canada's reaction might be that it has chosen to back the Empire strongly. It has been pursuing an independent policy (which I read is similar to it in OTL, as the British government wasn't at all sure that in case of a WW2 either Canada or South Africa would decide to side with it). Here, that independence of action could be to voluntarily choose to side with Britain at once

Regarding reaction in Britain, the news is coming from the newspapers with their Anglo-centric view, and from the radio which means the BBC here, ie the government's position. Australia is being portrayed either as a rebellious dominion, or as a country led astray by madmen. Intervention and sorting out is largely popular

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Would he need to have stood down ? I thought the Homeland Security guy was both Governor and Secretary ? If this is a new development, then I guess he DID stand down. On that basis, Smith would be retaking the governorship from FDR's temporary replacement I suppose.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

When Tom Ridge became Secretary of Homeland Security, he had already finished being Governor of Pennsylvania; his terms as Governor expired in 2001 and he was appoint Secretary of Homeland Security in 2003. However, as a sign of respect, Ridge was sometimes called Governor...which I suppose means that a Governor "outranks" (in terms of protocol, but nothing else) a Cabinet Secretary. Same basic concept that prevents a member of Congress from holding executive office prevents a state office holder from holding a Federal office (usually defined in a state law). I actually can't think of a person who's resigned a Governorship to take a Cabinet post. A governorship is a potential platform to run for the White House; a Cabinet job is nothing but work and an excuse to be blamed for things.

So FDR will need to resign to become Secretary of the Navy. Now it might be that Daniels' victory isn't certain and / or hasn't offered FDR the post yet (usually cabinet positions wouldn't be talked about until after the November elections). This will be doubly controversial because Secretary of the Navy wasn't a very influential Cabinet post. It seems to me that you could easily have the FDR-Al Smith debate go the other way, with FDR graciously letting Smith run again. Daniels offers him SecNav, which becomes a more prominent role in Daniels' adminisration. I wonder if this might affect the formation of the Department of Defense in this TL.

Also, note that OTL in 1938 NY revised its state constitution. Before the revision the Lt. Governor--as you suggest--does not become a fully-fledged "Governor" but only Acts as such. Though he still serves out the remaining term, so it's largely a cosmetic difference.

By the way, though Presidential elections (the ones where citizens cast ballots...though not for President directly) are held in November, the electors of the Electoral College don't meet in their respective states until December. Hence, until December, there is no President-Elect, legally speaking. Hence, in a way, it's correct to say that US Presidential elections (in terms of the legally binding vote that selects the President) are held in December, though that flies in the face of tradition.
 
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Yes, when Tom Ridge became Secretary of Homeland Security, he had to step down as Governor of Pennsylvania. Same basic concept that prevents a member of Congress from holding executive office, though I doubt its legally defined anywhere. However, as a sign of respect, he was called Governor...which I suppose means that a Governor "outranks" (in terms of protocol, but nothing else) a Cabinet Secretary. So FDR will need to resign to become Secretary of the Navy. Now it might be that Daniels' victory isn't certain and / or hasn't offered FDR the post yet (usually cabinet positions wouldn't be talked about until after the November elections).

Also, note that OTL in 1938 NY revised its state constitution. Before the revision the Lt. Governor--as you suggest--does not become a fully-fledged "Governor" but only Acts as such. Though he still serves out the remaining term, so it's largely a cosmetic difference.

By the way, though Presidential elections are held in November, the electors of the Electoral College don't meet in their respective states until December. Hence, until December, there is no President-Elect, legally speaking.

Thanks. That all pretty much makes sense. I doubt Daniels in 28 would have offered anyone a job since after 2 terms of Republican rule his election would not have been certain. After election he would have looked around for someone, and FDR having a high profile and relative popularity (people did just vote for him) would seem a good bet.

Sure, Smith is probably peeved, and maybe that will come back to bite FDR, but presumably in the interim period Smith does something else useful ? Then he can run to get New York back, perhaps dealing with latent bad feeling against the Democrats as a result of FDR's 'abandonment' of them - who better than an old favourite to achieve that ?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Thanks. That all pretty much makes sense. I doubt Daniels in 28 would have offered anyone a job since after 2 terms of Republican rule his election would not have been certain. After election he would have looked around for someone, and FDR having a high profile and relative popularity (people did just vote for him) would seem a good bet.

Sure, Smith is probably peeved, and maybe that will come back to bite FDR, but presumably in the interim period Smith does something else useful ? Then he can run to get New York back, perhaps dealing with latent bad feeling against the Democrats as a result of FDR's 'abandonment' of them - who better than an old favourite to achieve that ?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

I've updated my post. I realized that Ridge actually wasn't governor when he became Secretary of Homeland Security. If FDR's resigning the Governorship, then I think he might need a bigger job; maybe an earlier creation of the Department of Defense and FDR to become the first Secretary of Defense?
 
I have to imagine that the British government feels very edgy with the crisis of 1929.

Yes, it is one thing very much in their mind that if they are seen to be weak and indecisive then the situation at home, as well as in the Empire, could degenerate drastically


1 - How is Latin America? Has the avoidance of the Great Depression allowed Argentina to continue its development?

I will try and look into this tonight and get an answer to you by tomorrow

2 - With all the ruckus in Australia, what's happening in Siberia? Why doesn't Germany pursue a peace when the front stabilizes and the Russian succession is determined? It seems like they're spoiling for a fight. This may be what you're going for, that Germany issuance of a "blank check" like diplomatic order creates a series of crises that mount into a seemingly inevitable (though highly avoidable and contingent) conflict.

Partly its complacency, partly its a feeling that they don't really need to worry about Britain, and partly its the converse that the peace of 1918 left unfinished business, and with all the problems in the British Empire, maybe it is now time to let it tear itself apart and leave Germany the premier power

3 - What's happening in China? I seem to remember things were stable there; are they going to take sides in the war?

China is neutral. It has political and economic ties to Japan but is not dominated by them. What happens if the Russo-Germans break through the FER/Japanese lines completely, though, may be something else

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
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