The Ten Thousand Greeks of Mesopotamia

So how's about we discuss the possibility that, in an ATL where Cyrus the Younger defeats his brother Artaxerxes II, the 10,000 Greek mercenaries he brings perform so well that he decides to award them with land in Mesopotamia.

This leads to a not insignificant state of Sparta-influenced warriors in Mesopotamia that can possibly make or break kings, and a stronger Achaemenid Persia (Cyrus was a warlike go-getter, whereas OTL's winner was Artaxerxes, who focused too much on the pleasures of rule, ignoring the duties).

Is this a possibility/would Cyrus allow the Greeks to settle in Mesopotamia?
 
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I would imagine it is. The Persians and other ancient civilizations settled and moved around populations from time to time.
 
Not all of them would be interested in settling though, the composition of the Ten Thousand being very diverse
 
I doubt the Greeks themselves would have an overpowering influence. Ten thousand people is a lot but the Greeks aren't going to all choose to stay soldiers forever. Over time some of them will give up soldiering and a good land grant in Mesopotamia kind of encourages that since farming is suddenly going to become a much more valuable profession. Also even if they where to remain soldiers forever I don't expect them to be more than an elite group in the military. Not overpowering in their influence.
 
I never heard of any aside from them, and those guys got wiped out by Alexander anyway. You might be thinking of the Greeks who Alexander left behind there.
 
When Darius sacked Miletus, after the Ionian revolt, he settled many of the Miletians in Mesopotamia.
 
I never heard of any aside from them, and those guys got wiped out by Alexander anyway. You might be thinking of the Greeks who Alexander left behind there.

I'll look for more sources, but I found this in a quick google search:
http://www.cemml.colostate.edu/cultural/09476/afgh02-06enl.html
Since Greek prisoners captured in the many wars that took place between the Achaemenids and Greeks during the 5th and 4th centuries BC were often exiled to Bactria, the indigenous population of Bactria already included a high percentage of Greeks when Alexander's army arrived there in 329-328 BC.
 
I believe the largest number of Greeks in the party were Achean werent they? Not 100% on details but I recall due to the poor soil a significant amount of their menfolk plied the mercenary trade for support. So not exactly a Spartan influenced agoge!

Perhaps greater expansion of the cities on the Hellenic rim? Those in Modern day Turkey? Cyrus might be more amenable to settlers. Or alternatively he attempts to make his own Imperial Guard more akin to Varangians, filling it with foreign Greeks.
 
Alright, so it looks as though I'll be going for this situation:

Battle is joined between competent Cyrus and the enormous force under his brother Artaxerxes's nominal command. The battle, due to Artaxerxes's superior numbers and cohesion (well-rested and -supplied) is going a bit badly for Cyrus (though he believes he's killed Artaxerxes, as in OTL). Suddenly the Greeks surge forward on one flank, routing the opposing forces and chasing Artaxerxes and his nobles off the field.

They spend a year or two (or maybe three?) under Cyrus roaming from Asia Minor to India and Egypt to Sogdia, "influencing" the satraps into completely accepting Cyrus as their ruler. Meanwhile (due to butterflies?) plague and shit go down in Greece, and the mercenaries don't really want to return home. They wish to stay in Cyrus's employ.

They do so. They put down Egyptian revolts, the plots of some satraps and the king's cousins, and act as a very loyal bodyguard (after all, they helped him gain his throne; it's cultural significance and stuff). After one or two decades of service they feel more at home in Mesopotamia and Persia than they do in Asia Minor and the Ionian coast (where there are also revolts), and most of them decide that they want to settle in Mesopotamia.

The bodyguard continues, filled with newly arrived Greeks and the mostly half-Greek sons of the older men of the original Ten Thousand.

How's that for a start?
 
I'll look for more sources, but I found this in a quick google search:
http://www.cemml.colostate.edu/cultural/09476/afgh02-06enl.html
After a bit of searching I can't find more than vague mentions, but there's enough vague mentions to sway me into thinking you're right and Greeks (besides just the Branchidae) were settled in the far east. That said, the most overt mentions of Greek settlement at this time refer to either Asia Minor or Mesopotamia, so it's probably more likely that Greek veterans would be given homes there than Bactria, though the latter is far from unlikely as well.
I believe the largest number of Greeks in the party were Achean werent they? Not 100% on details but I recall due to the poor soil a significant amount of their menfolk plied the mercenary trade for support. So not exactly a Spartan influenced agoge!
The leadership was largely Spartan though. That said, they didn't push their ways on the soldiers themselves, the expedition acquired a bit of a pan-Hellenic character if I'm not mistaken.
Alright, so it looks as though I'll be going for this situation:

Battle is joined between competent Cyrus and the enormous force under his brother Artaxerxes's nominal command. The battle, due to Artaxerxes's superior numbers and cohesion (well-rested and -supplied) is going a bit badly for Cyrus (though he believes he's killed Artaxerxes, as in OTL). Suddenly the Greeks surge forward on one flank, routing the opposing forces and chasing Artaxerxes and his nobles off the field.

They spend a year or two (or maybe three?) under Cyrus roaming from Asia Minor to India and Egypt to Sogdia, "influencing" the satraps into completely accepting Cyrus as their ruler. Meanwhile (due to butterflies?) plague and shit go down in Greece, and the mercenaries don't really want to return home. They wish to stay in Cyrus's employ.

They do so. They put down Egyptian revolts, the plots of some satraps and the king's cousins, and act as a very loyal bodyguard (after all, they helped him gain his throne; it's cultural significance and stuff). After one or two decades of service they feel more at home in Mesopotamia and Persia than they do in Asia Minor and the Ionian coast (where there are also revolts), and most of them decide that they want to settle in Mesopotamia.

The bodyguard continues, filled with newly arrived Greeks and the mostly half-Greek sons of the older men of the original Ten Thousand.

How's that for a start?
Plausible, but I think it would cause problems for Cyrus in the long run. Such a conspicious use of mercenary soldiers would make him seem like a foreign conqueror to an extent. The Persians of course did use soldiers of many nationalities, including Greek mercenaries, but typically only on expeditions against foreign lands and whatnot, not against fellow Iranians. Most damning of all is his use of Greeks as a bodyguard, rather than Persian/Median "immortals". His neglect of the Iranian nobility in that regard will not win Cyrus any favors.
 
Plausible, but I think it would cause problems for Cyrus in the long run. Such a conspicious use of mercenary soldiers would make him seem like a foreign conqueror to an extent. The Persians of course did use soldiers of many nationalities, including Greek mercenaries, but typically only on expeditions against foreign lands and whatnot, not against fellow Iranians. Most damning of all is his use of Greeks as a bodyguard, rather than Persian/Median "immortals". His neglect of the Iranian nobility in that regard will not win Cyrus any favors.

I see your point...though the Greeks wouldn't be fighting Persians; I envision them as fighting mostly Egyptians, Indians, Judeans, and the Massagetae, with a few noble revolts in between.

And then I guess they wouldn't be a bodyguard. Perhaps they'd be a reserve force, or maybe the core of the infantry, that does all the dirty work and helps green troops get blooded?
 
That would make sense, though much of the fighting would still likely be against Iranian peoples in the east. Cyrus would probably want them as an infantry core, much like how Memnon's soldiers were used in the war against Alexander, though the Ten Thousand would likely be trusted a lot more due to different circumstances.
 
Hmm, I thought that by Artaxerxes II's time the Achaemenids already had decent control from Ionia to the Hindu Kush, and from the First Cataract up to Sogdia? Are there really any more Iranian peoples to conquer? If you have some sources and information, though, let me know; Heirs of the Achaemenids is a great TL and you probably do know more than me on this topic.
 
Their control was rather tenuous and there were often rebellions, particularly among the hill-tribes. A notable example would be the Cadusii in norther Iran. Cyrus himself put down a revolt of theirs a few years before his rebellion, during which they sided with Artaxerxes in revenge I assume.
 
So how's about we discuss the possibility that, in an ATL where Cyrus the Younger defeats his brother Artaxerxes II, the 10,000 Greek mercenaries he brings perform so well that he decides to award them with land in Mesopotamia.

This leads to a not insignificant state of Sparta-influenced warriors in Mesopotamia that can possibly make or break kings, and a stronger Achaemenid Persia (Cyrus was a warlike go-getter, whereas OTL's winner was Artaxerxes, who focused too much on the pleasures of rule, ignoring the duties).

Is this a possibility/would Cyrus allow the Greeks to settle in Mesopotamia?

As for the "Sparta-influenced warriors":
- at this period of time the commanders ("sergeants and officers") of any mercenary Greek force were usually Spartans or Athenians as the most "noble" among the Hellenes. That was a tradition and that was quite natural.

As for settling in Mesopotamia:
1) why settling the Greeks if the Empire might have them as a standing army, on a payroll? The Achaemenids had huge reserves of gold and they definitely could afford that.
2) why in Mesopotamia? They might be distributed along the borders and/or in the most rebellious provinces, where surrounded by the dangerous enemies they would be less inclined to rebell themselves.

As for the Greeks making and breaking kings:
- Cyrus was a natural-born Achaemenid Prince. The essence of the Achaemenid Empire was the rule of the Persians all over the Empire. The Greeks might have been instrumental in making him a king and possibly for a few months to consolidate his power.
But soon, very soon they would become a nuisance, even a shame for him. Worst possible scenario is the Greeks are massacred by the Persians. Most probable - the Greek 10 000 are showered with lavish rewards and sent home. One thing for sure - Cyrus would use the Greeks, not these Greeks who won him the throne but other guys, as mercenaries and military settlers all over his Empire on much larger scale than before - quite traditionally as the Persians had used the Jews and other non-Persian peoples. A few thousand Greeks as the core of the Grand Army crack force infantry of shahanshah is possible. But the dominance of the Persians in the Empire and in the army would be indisputable.
 
Alright...I'm just trying to postulate what might happen with this POD now.

So the Ten Thousand win Cyrus his throne and are showered with rewards; after decades of service they decide to go home, and more extensive and more accurate tales of the wealth of Egypt, Mesopotamia, and India are spread throughout Greece. Macedonia specifically becomes a land of recruitment (ITTL Philip never gains the throne and the Macedonians are hard pressed by Epirotes, Paeonians, and Thracians).

Since almost all of Greece is weak and disorganized after the Peloponnesian War, these Ten Thousand form a core of soldiers who trust each other and keep in contact. They...somehow take over their home cities, fostering unity? Take over some land (Macedonia comes to mind), drive off enemies, and decide to take over Greece and invade Persia (being a threat to them)?

Sorry if this is a bit far-fetched, I'm just trying to decide what effects this POD would have.
 
Alright...I'm just trying to postulate what might happen with this POD now.

So the Ten Thousand win Cyrus his throne and are showered with rewards; after decades of service they decide to go home, and more extensive and more accurate tales of the wealth of Egypt, Mesopotamia, and India are spread throughout Greece. Macedonia specifically becomes a land of recruitment (ITTL Philip never gains the throne and the Macedonians are hard pressed by Epirotes, Paeonians, and Thracians).

Since almost all of Greece is weak and disorganized after the Peloponnesian War, these Ten Thousand form a core of soldiers who trust each other and keep in contact. They...somehow take over their home cities, fostering unity? Take over some land (Macedonia comes to mind), drive off enemies, and decide to take over Greece and invade Persia (being a threat to them)?

Sorry if this is a bit far-fetched, I'm just trying to decide what effects this POD would have.

In OTL the ten thousand did return home and what? Nothing serious happened.
Before Philip Macedonia was never a land of recruitment. Why would it be ITTL? Without Philip Macedonians were not much as warriors.
 
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