The Talleyrand Plan

LordKalvan

SteveW said:
Cispadania was doing extremely well. It had mostly settled down, the new limited-franchise democracy and the general good-will of King Ferdinand. The economy was in great shape as well. A naval base near Ancona had been let out to Britain at favourable rates as a reward for British help in forming the new country, and a free-trade agreement with France was seeing a mini-boom. From Modena to Rimini, Cispadania was getting onto her feet, the new liberal economic climate helping to unite the disparate regions: Romagna, Modena, Reggio, northern Marche.

Ferdinand was fascinated by the new air of modernism. Although he had few powers, his influence was still strong, and he was well-respected. On his advice, in November 1832, surveying began for a railway line from Bologna to Forli, which would be the first Continental railway system if built (in the end, Leopold of Antwerp's line from Antwerp to Mechelen was the first). Danish settlers followed him as well, notably setting up in the dairy industry. To the Pope's powerless distaste, he was also followed by Danish Lutheran missionaries, who saw a chance to make some converts under the Pope's nose.

Cispadania's foreign policy was slowly taking shape. Parochial in nature, it was helped by the goodwill of both Britain and France. An alliance and free trade agreement were struck up with Duke Frederick of Lucca. Relations with the Pope and Austria were strained, but for now that didn't matter.

As Europe settled for now, attention moved east, to the turbulence of Egypt and the Ottoman Empire...
Click to expand...

Congrats for your new post, and you must be reading my mind: I was just thinking of railways, economics and..:
  • agriculture: Emilia, i.e. the old duchies of parma and Modena plus Bologna, is the richest agricultural land in all of Italy. Capitals, and the application of modern (for 1830!) agricultural techniques will boost an already sound production base, and create food surplus. Good idea bringing in Danish settlers, but the dairy industry is already quite good (remember the parmesan cheese )
  • the constitution and the extension of rights to all citizens - irrespective of their religious beliefs - will be a magnet to attract capitals from Geneve and protestant Switzerland (the same capitals that in the 1860s went to Milan), and to attract immigration of Valdenses from piedmont and Jews from all over Italy. Obviously the friendship with France and Great britain does not hurt either. One of the most visible signs will be the establishment in Bologna of Banque Rotschild
  • the rotschild are the most influential financers on the continent, and have been quite active (for a price) in the Belgian revolution of OTL. In these years they are surveying and designing the lyon to cette railway (and in TTL they will back the Antwerp to ostend railway). They were great believers in railways (as well as in making money)
  • railways: Bologna to Forli is a good choice to start. Obviously it will have to be extended to Rimini and Ancona on one side and Modena-Parma on the other one. The Ancona to Parma railway will be the backbone of Cispadania, and it will have significant military applications too (transporting troops quickly from one side to the other of the kingdom. Railways had a significant military impact in 1848 and 1859 wars, in OTL). Sooner or later it will be necessary to build a spur from Parma to Carrara , to connect the other port of the kingdom. The military implication is quite strong here too.
  • in his push for modernization, Ferdinand will grant a patent to the Opificio Meccanico Padano (OMP - Padan Mechanical Works), which will start from the production of steam-driven pumps to drain the floods of the Po, and to reclaim marshlands in romagna, but soon will become the center of the railway industry. British technology and capitals will support this fledgling industry. Suggested location: Borgo Panigale, where the airport of Bologna is located in OTL
  • British: good idea to grant the British berthing and coaling rights. I'd think that Carrara (on the Thyrrenian sea) might be more interesting for them than Ancona on the Adriatic (where the British have already a base in Corfu). Obviously the French might be upset a bit: they appear to have a proprietary attitude toward the duchy of Lucca (and toward Cispadania too)
  • Navy: it would make sense to start acquiring some kind of naval capability. Again the British might be the right guys, or the French, or both. Nothing too fancy, but serious stuff. i\s it too early for an iron-clad?
  • again on modernization: one of the first act of Ferdinand is signing a law which makes immunization against smallpox mandatory (the Bourbon Kingdom had already passed such a law in the early 1820s)
  • Egypt makes me think of cotton. There is already a (moderate) textile industry, mostly in Parma and Modena, centered on woool cloth. Is it reasonable to think that the Cispadanian government will back their British friends in eastern Mediterranean (not much - just something like Cavour did in the Crimea in OTL 1854) and be rewarded by some "concession" in Egyptian cotton?
  • again another offshoot of British friendship would be good relation with the recently created kingdom of Greece
  • Arctic Warriors's idea of some venture on the Ashanti coast - together with Danes and British - is also quite interesting. remember that both Leghorn and Genoa are quite close. Once the money starts to flow, there is plenty of facilities available around there.

Well, don't want to throw too much on your plate, but you know how things work :D and btw: in OTL railways were branded as "demoniac" by the pope, who did not want to hear about them. Another reason to hate Cispadania
 
Last edited:

arctic warrior

LordKalvan said:
Navy: it would make sense to start acquiring some kind of naval capability. Again the British might be the right guys, or the French, or both. Nothing too fancy, but serious stuff. i\s it too early for an iron-clad?
Click to expand...

Denmark launched her first steamship 1829 and soon would be going for steam frigates and SOL. Ferdinand could order a frigate or two there. Would be nice keeping in touch with the old country and make for visits back home. Danish naval officers liked to go abroad, one commodore actually rebuild the Austrian navy prior to 1864, and it fougth the Danes at Heligoland and others went later to Siam to build the navy.

LordKalvan said:
Was Caroline accident-prone? I mean, two fires scarring her face looks more than a coincidence.
Click to expand...

I surprised me as well to find two such incidents. I haven't found any other notion of the second accident. She doesn't look to have been accident-prone, she was a fine rider. I'll try to find some more on this.
 

LordKalvan

arctic warrior said:
Denmark launched her first steamship 1829 and soon would be going for steam frigates and SOL. Ferdinand could order a frigate or two there. Would be nice keeping in touch with the old country and make for visits back home. Danish naval officers liked to go abroad, one commodore actually rebuild the Austrian navy prior to 1864, and it fougth the Danes at Heligoland and others went later to Siam to build the navy.



I surprised me as well to find two such incidents. I haven't found any other notion of the second accident. She doesn't look to have been accident-prone, she was a fine rider. I'll try to find some more on this.
Click to expand...

Like your idea. A couple of frigates to start from Denmark, but I think Cispadania needs also a couple of SOLs. Britain or France for these.
 

SteveW

arctic warrior said:
Very good installment. Really like it about the Danish settlers - a nice touch. The Lutheran missionaries another one.
1831 did the state council decide to keep Denmark a united state and to use the proposed installment of the Estates of the Realm in each part of it - Holstein, Sleswig and the Kingdom - to demonstrate the unity. Germany wanted the Estates installed in Holstein to segregate it from the Kingdom.
Denmark had its liberal breakthrough in 1834/5 - with impulses from Cispadania it might accelerate just a wee bit. It might not matter, but never the less. The accession of Ferdinand to the throne might cause some interest in Denmark into Italian matters. There already were with Danish artists going there to study and work, but it could make more of a spin off.
Denmark and Britain had for some years fought the Ashanti on the Gold Coast - that might be some relations to lean on for Cispadania's king.
Click to expand...

I think for now Schleswig-Holstein is to remain technically outside the Kingdom- Denmark is watching Prussia, which is going to have some serious problems soon. Thanks for the point about the Gold Coast and the one about the liberal breakthrough- I'll look into that once I've sorted out the Ottomans.

Tusind tak!
 

SteveW

@LordKalvan- that's a lot of ideas! Thanks though, it's nice to be able to start tackling some of the details.

I think Cispadania's naval development will be delayed a little. For now, Britain and France will protect her, but Ferdinand's priority is to fix the army. After all, the threats to his kingdom at the moment come from land.

The detail of the economic situation is useful, thanks. I'm hoping that Cispadania will turn out to be a powerhouse, and a showcase of the Manchester School.
 

SteveW

Over in the Ottoman Empire there was chaos. Mehmet Ali, Viceroy of Egypt, was overrunning the empire and heading into Anatolia. Emperor Mahmud II wasn't out for the count though. On the 4th December 1832, south of Konya, the forces of the Grand Vizier Resid Pasha broke the Egyptian supply lines, sending Ibrahim Pasha, the Egyptian general, reeling back. For now, Constantinople was secure, but it surely could not last. In this slightly stronger position, Mahmud decided to sue for peace, whilst quietly discussing with Russia for help.

Muhammed Ali was unsure. Should he go for it? After all, he had just suffered quite a setback, and the loss of momentum was not a good thing. His mind was made up though when Britain and Cispadania offered him a cotton deal. For now he would take the money, build himself up, and in a few years deliver a hammer blow, and become the Sultan. He hoped.
 

arctic warrior

SteveW said:
I think for now Schleswig-Holstein is to remain technically outside the Kingdom- Denmark is watching Prussia, which is going to have some serious problems soon. Thanks for the point about the Gold Coast and the one about the liberal breakthrough- I'll look into that once I've sorted out the Ottomans.

Tusind tak!
Click to expand...

Velbekomme!

I stubled over something else - Hans Christian Andersen traveled twice to Italy. 1833 overland to Rome and 1845-46 through Germany, Austria to Italy and by ship from Italy to France and back to Denmark. On the second journey he was the celebrity and invited to the courts. He also passed through Ancona. On the first journey he traveled some through northern Italy and would TTL definately visit Ferdinand and Carolines court having met Caroline at the Danish court 1822. He would be a most welcome guest with news from home, Germany, Austria and whatever.
Caroline instituted a childrens asylum in Aarhus 1836 - today it would be a kindergarden.
I found a drawing of Caroline:

arvepr Caroline.jpg
 

SteveW

Now THAT is interesting- Hans Christian Andersen at the court of Italy! It's a total accident that there's a Danish influence in Italy in TTL, but I'm liking the idea more and more.

I didn't see any burn marks on that picture of Caroline :)
 

arctic warrior

SteveW said:
Now THAT is interesting- Hans Christian Andersen at the court of Italy! It's a total accident that there's a Danish influence in Italy in TTL, but I'm liking the idea more and more.

I didn't see any burn marks on that picture of Caroline :)
Click to expand...

No - she didn't marry Ferdinand until 1929 and the accident took place a year after! The drawing is dated 1822.
 

LordKalvan

SteveW said:
@LordKalvan- that's a lot of ideas! Thanks though, it's nice to be able to start tackling some of the details.

I think Cispadania's naval development will be delayed a little. For now, Britain and France will protect her, but Ferdinand's priority is to fix the army. After all, the threats to his kingdom at the moment come from land.

The detail of the economic situation is useful, thanks. I'm hoping that Cispadania will turn out to be a powerhouse, and a showcase of the Manchester School.
Click to expand...

I apologised in advance, but the scenario is pretty interesting.
I agree with you that army (and railways) are the priority. And the development of a base mechanical industry. The 3 things are pretty much linked together. A navy would be nice, but not necessary. The key thing is that Cispadania has the agricultural base to sustain an industrial development, and its rivers can provide enough hydro power for a 19th century development
 

LordKalvan

Caroline looks quite a nice lady. A bit thin, maybe.
I did not remember the trips of HCA; funny how these things are always interrelated
 

arctic warrior

Danish artist and sculpturer Bertel Thorvaldsen stayed in Rome 1791-1838. He made a statue of Pius VII. Only protestant to do so! See below.
Thorvaldsen would be another destination for HC Andersen in 1833.

Pius-VII.jpg
 

SteveW

As Ferdinand and Misley celebrated New Year 1833, they could look back on a successful full first year in charge of Cispadania. The railway to Forli was under construction, and ambitious plans had been drawn up to build a new one as far as Parma. The cotton deals with Egypt had seen a boom begin in the mills of Bologna and Parma, even if some of the smaller cottage weaving industries had suffered badly.

It had been an intriguing year for Denmark, one of great pride. Culturally, they had never had it so good. Various Danish artists, writers and thinkers had been in Cispadania already, and Hans Christian Andersen would arrive that March. One Danish writer, the liberal Steen Steensen Blicher, was working as an adviser to Ferdinand. Over in Rome, the sculptor Thorvaldsen was frequently employed by the new Cispadanian regime. The visiting Professor of Philosophy at Bologna University for the coming year was even to be Poul Martin Moeller of Copenhagen University, Kierkegaard's mentor.

In a cultural coup, both Hegel (who had narrowly avoided death by cholera a few years previously) and Schopenhauer had come to Cispadania, encouraged by the strong press and academic freedoms.
 

arctic warrior

SteveW said:
As Ferdinand and Misley celebrated New Year 1833, they could look back on a successful full first year in charge of Cispadania. The railway to Forli was under construction, and ambitious plans had been drawn up to build a new one as far as Parma. The cotton deals with Egypt had seen a boom begin in the mills of Bologna and Parma, even if some of the smaller cottage weaving industries had suffered badly.

It had been an intriguing year for Denmark, one of great pride. Culturally, they had never had it so good. Various Danish artists, writers and thinkers had been in Cispadania already, and Hans Christian Andersen would arrive that March. One Danish writer, the liberal Steen Steensen Blicher, was working as an adviser to Ferdinand. Over in Rome, the sculptor Thorvaldsen was frequently employed by the new Cispadanian regime. The visiting Professor of Philosophy at Bologna University for the coming year was even to be Poul Martin Moeller of Copenhagen University, Kierkegaard's mentor.

In a cultural coup, both Hegel (who had narrowly avoided death by cholera a few years previously) and Schopenhauer had come to Cispadania, encouraged by the strong press and academic freedoms.
Click to expand...

Wow - thank YOU! They'd think like being able to walk on water.:D :D :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top