The Sword of Freedom: A Franco-British Union TL

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Enoque?! Enoque Pouelle?!

Maybe :D.

NumberSix, I do actually have photocopies of these documents obtained through the national archives website back in 2007. They are certainly very interestin but do not actually contain that much information. But to be fair both plans were merely theoretical ideas with not much in depht thinking done implementation wise.
This is reflected in the TL by the fact the structures in place will mostly be ad hoc for some time. We will explore this more as the TL progresses.

Corsica while closer to France than Algeria or Morocco has rather limited capabilities to support troops. Even today both Bastia and Ajaccio harbours can only recieve a very limited number of ships and that's mainly car ferries and cruise ships. Therefore while some troops where evacuated towards Corsica especillay in the last week where the "small ships of Provence" would have played a Dunkerque style part in the evacuation. The bulk of the heavy stuff is now in North Africa to be redeployed for the offensive against Lybia. Machine tools, civilian technical personnel has mainly been evacuated to Britain where the capabilities to use their skills and talents are greater.
 
Dunois

Interesting. I know there's been some discussion of this before and at least one fairly huge project on the idea. However definitely subscribing as eager to see how things develop. Also intrigued by the idea of the union lasting in some form after the war could make for an interesting world.

I think you mentioned earlier about the Japanese still going for French Indo-China and the allies not fighting for it. However not certain about that as depending on how its going it would a difficult and big task for the Japanese, even without any other influences. Also, given that they have lost their homeland the French might insist on fight for the colony while some Brits will realise fighting there would keep the Japanese more distant from Malaya.

True the allies can't match the Japanese fleet, especially while seeking to blockage Nazi dominated Europe but hopefully they would realise that and not try. The best defence for the colonies in the east are ground and air units and, especially if Libya has been largely cleared by this time, there should be plenty of them available.

Steve
 
Dunois

Interesting. I know there's been some discussion of this before and at least one fairly huge project on the idea. However definitely subscribing as eager to see how things develop. Also intrigued by the idea of the union lasting in some form after the war could make for an interesting world.

I think you mentioned earlier about the Japanese still going for French Indo-China and the allies not fighting for it. However not certain about that as depending on how its going it would a difficult and big task for the Japanese, even without any other influences. Also, given that they have lost their homeland the French might insist on fight for the colony while some Brits will realise fighting there would keep the Japanese more distant from Malaya.

True the allies can't match the Japanese fleet, especially while seeking to blockage Nazi dominated Europe but hopefully they would realise that and not try. The best defence for the colonies in the east are ground and air units and, especially if Libya has been largely cleared by this time, there should be plenty of them available.

Steve

Welcome aboard!

Indochina will be defended but I have not really planned anything for 1941 in detail yet. The defence of Indochina will have an impact on the Malaya campaign obviously. As for Singapore an idea I would like to pursue is some kind of "Siege of Singapore" lasting for months if not over a year.

Lybia will be the focus of the upcoming chapter 5 :).
 
I see Corsica more as a thorn in the Axis side which can not be easily ignored but which will consume time and resources to take, perhaps disastrously so in terms of the Italian fleet.

In the short run it is also perfectly positioned to enable the evacuation of many more French troops than could make the trip to North Africa in the available shipping and time limit.

As for the IJN, beyond the correct suggestion that the resources freed from a victorious campaign in Libya may make Singapore far more formidable don't count the fleets out yet. The British alone held off the Italians OTL and one more Italian debacle, perhaps over Libya or Corsica, combined with nine French capital ships and aircraft carrier Bearn, may leave enough forces to put up a serious challenge to the IJN.
 
Interlude: Multinationalism

Something else for a change, not about the war but a small glimpse of TTL 2010.

Interlude: Multinationalism

The Dictionary of Ideologies, Oxford University Press, Fifth Edition 2007

Multinationalism was first mooted in the late 1940s by French historians Fernand Braudel and Alfred Sauvy as the “Presence and mutual tolerance of several national groups within a state and their identification to a common overreaching identity cutting across religious or linguistic lines”. Both France and the United Kingdom were said to be multinational states, chiefly because of the presence of multiple indigenous national or cultural groups whose loyalty to the French or British state was not question and accepted as a matter of fact. It was posited that eventually, the Franco-British union would become a fully fledged multinational state, a prediction which was shown to be true during the later decades of the 20th century. This concept can be said to be in opposition with the similar but different concept of a nation-state where only one national group forms the nation. There is considerable debate as to what differentiate a nation state from a multinational state, as some think that the latter evolve into a nation state eventually where the various constituent national identities simply merged into a new one.

Yugoslavia is a case in point and while some see Yougoslavia as a multinational state due to the significant differences among its indigenous nationalities but others see it as a fully fledged nation state with only cosmetic differences between its constituent nationalities. The debate has not been free of controversy in Yougoslavia with Croat historians favouring a multinational approach and Serb historians preferring a national one, though both agree that such a thing as an overreaching Yugoslav identity does exist.

While the expression is mainly used in a modern geopolitical context, there have been attempts by historians to use it in history as well chiefly though the neo-revisionist framework of history. It is been said for example that circumstances allowing, the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth would eventually have turned into a multinational state had it survived into the 19th or 20th century.

Example of multinational states include the Franco-British Union, Belgium, Yugoslavia, Spain in Europe and the most preeminent example elsewhere is Canada (see also Special Relationship).
 
ok very good, cant ardlly wait to see the next update and how the War will procede, and how is the situation in the Pacific, and also how is The US in this Timeline, will it entar the War sooner, or later than in OTL?. :D
 
Chapter 5: In the sands of Libya

This update is laying the ground for subsequent ones, as a fair bit of stuff is happening at the same time as the Italian defeat in Libya.

Chapter 5: In the sands of Libya

While the French Army in mainland France was on the retreat, plans were already in motion in late June for Franco-British forces to start a two pronged offensive against Italian Libya. Air attacks against airfields in Libya had started as early as late June only hampered by the relative lack of ammunition and spare parts, which gradually but not completed lessened as technicians evacuated from the mainland were sent to airfields in Tunisia and eastern Algeria. The quality of the Franco-British forces based in Tunisia and Egypt was variable by early July, but they were nevertheless able to field tanks such as the D2 and the Mathilda II both outclassing anything the Italians possessed in the area. The governor of Libya Italo Balbo was very well aware of the weaknesses of its forces, but pleas for reinforcements to Mussolini came to nought and in any case the Franco-British navy would have been in the way of any reinforcements.

The Franco-British invasion of Libya started east on the 21st of July, first as an artillery barrage coupled with extensive air attacks on Italian positions whose effectiveness was more often than not variable and subsequently as a general all out assault against the Italian positions led by General Amédée Blanc. While brave and desperate at times the Italian resistance was doomed and as early as the 25th Balbo ordered a general retreat towards Tripoli 100km away from the Tunisian border. It was not long however before the Savona and Sabratha divisions where encircled through and simply unable to fight back the French tanks. Balbo headquarters where therefore evacuated to Benghazi on the 26th and despite Mussolini call for a “fight to the last man” the city of Tripoli was taken without a shot on the 29th of July.

Tirailleurs.jpg

French North African Tirailleurs in action near the Tunisian border

Powered by a desire to avenge to humiliation of the invasion, motorised elements of the French forces powered through up to El Machina 50km south of Sirte, reached on the 5th of Augist. By then commander De Hauteclocque had to stop its mad dash due to lack of fuel and supplies. The Italian Fifth Army based along the Tunisian border simply ceased to exist in just a little more than two weeks and while some elements were able to retreat East, the bulk of the Italian forces, on foot and defeated surrendered near Tripoli. The final nail in the coffin of Italian Libya was hammered on the 10th of August with a joint offensive of the British Army based in Egypt reinforced by French elements redeployed from Lebanon and Syria and under to ultimate authority of general Wavell.

As in the west, the Franco-British offensive along the Egyptian border was successful and counter attacks by black shirt units along the front were all repulsed with minimal losses. Bardia was taken on the 13th and the road to Tobruk lay open. The battle for the city lasted five days between and ended on the 21st of August with the capture of over 11 000 Italians. Nevertheless it was very clear by then to Balbo that this defence had been pointless as in addition to an offensive along the coast, mobile columns of Franco-British troops were fast moving towards El Agheila in order to join up with the French forces coming from the west. Any hopes for reinforcements from mainland Italy, were shattered by the success of Franco-British Operation Guillotine against the Italian Navy on the 24th of August.

By the end of August Franco-British forces from the east and the west had joined up near El Agheila and Italian Libya was fast reducing into a pocket around Benghazi. The siege of Benghazi lasted until the 23rd September with heavy losses on both sides due to the sheer tenacity of the Italian defenders, in the name of Italy for most but in the name of Mussolini and fascism for the near fanatical black shirt units. Resupplying attempts at night by submarines and fast destroyers units were successful at times but more often than not intercepted by Franco-British naval or aerial forces. It is only in order to avoid further losses both military and civilians that against Mussolini orders, Balbo surrendered what remained on the Italian army to General Wavell on the 23rd of September. Both himself and nearly 250 000 Italians soldiers were now prisoners of the Franco-British.

Balbo.jpg

Marshall Balbo now prisoner of the Franco-British army

Diary of corporal François Bazoge said:
What a journey from Oran to that town called Benghazi, once we broke through the Italian defences on the Tunisian border it was a complete victory for us and that fight near Tripoli earned me a spot as corporal. The Italians abandoned everything they had here, their trucks, their guns and there is even a rumour among the English there that back in Tobruk they even captured one the Italians military brothels. For we have been working very closely with soldiers from the British 22nd Infantry brigade lately. It is not always easy to communicate with them due to the language barrier, though it seems that a liking for bottles of wine is something us and them have in common at times.

There is a rumour among the ranks that they want to create mixed units higher up but our officers say that this is unlikely to be at anything other than brigade level. Or is it regimental level? Since according to him, a brigade is not the same thing for us and for them. Still we are all eager to fight both the Boche and the Rital and according to the news the Germans are losing badly up in the skies above the Channel.

Guess I need to improve my English in any case as it is clear to all of us that we are in it together for the long haul.
 
If it's a Franco-British Union, then wouldn't an attack on Indochina effectively be an attack on the Union as a whole?
 
If it's a Franco-British Union, then wouldn't an attack on Indochina effectively be an attack on the Union as a whole?

The war in the Pacific is still a year away, but no worries Indochina will play a big part in the war later on. I also have some ideas of Indochina post-war.

For the moment though the focus is on 1940 with the Mediterranean theatre and later the Battle of Britain.
 
If Union troops are in force in Corsica, it might be envisaged to seize Sardinia - if only to force the Italian fleet to commit and catch it between France's Escadre de la Méditerrannée and Britain's Mediterranean Fleet.
 
I don't see a point in restoring a Belgian state after the war, when it could be a nice addition to the Franco-British Union.

I will extensively cover the debates on the extent of the Franco-British Union post war as indeed some will think that the Union should form the nuclei of a wider European Union, including countries such as Belgium and the Nertherlands.
On the other hand others will point the already huge challenges in designing a working structure for a union between France and Britain only and this side will win the post war debate.
The Franco-British Union will gain "extra states" throughout the rest of the 20th century, but most of these will be Franco-British colonies opting for autonomy within the framework of the Union instead of a costly and uncertain independence. I you all guessing which countries I am talking about :).

There will be full free trade and cooperation within Europe early post war, but the structures and framework for this will be vastly different from OTL and not even "European" per se.

Atlantic Friend, an attack on Sardinia is on the cards for late September, mainly in order to better cover Corsica's south and to deny the Axis an important base. The fate of the Italian navy, will be mentionned in the next chapter whose title is Operation Guillotine. A cookie to anyone who correctly guess what lies behind this mysterious title ;).
 
What about technology/industry/finance etc?

As to the North Africa offensive, I doubt the French would have have the armour or the organisation in place for anything more than a spoiling offensive, but then if the Italians are surprised by a simultaneous attack from East and West there could well be a collapse in coordination, perhaps landings on coastal roads etc to this end. Although I think that what with the chaos of the big move I think that the offensive would begin and end later than July-August.

Another thing that occurs is the mechanics of Lend Lease. Unlike in FFO where France gets the lion's share of LL and Britain gets a much better deal economically, Britain and France are one nation ITTL.

I can still see the Exiled French forces getting the most of the American Equipment, but the initial Cash and Carry aid will come from the combined Franco-British treasury. What then, happens to Britain and France's business assets in South American and the US ITTL?
Do they sell at firesale prices as per OTL?
Do they hold on to them as per FFO?
Do they sell them at a higher price?

France naturally gets most of the 4 Pipers in the DD for B aggreement, but since The Union has more West Indian posessions than Britain alone, do you think it's reasonable to suggest that the Americans would be willing to settle for a 50 year lease rather than 99 on the bases in this region (I need an Expert on French Naval bases to see if the Americans would gain an increase in the number of bases sufficient to justify a shorter lease).

Similarly with the obsolescent US merchant tonnage that historically glutted British repair yards and halted heavy warship production for a crucual 6 months might be averted or ameliaorated with access to French colonial ports. Since Britain has more breathing space and we can assume a less costly Battle of Britain (The Luftwaffe takes heavier losses over France ITTL and starts later right?), there might not be the panic reaction that prompted the UK to runs its industry into the ground and therefore there might be a greater investment in modernisation and some of the promising industrial and military projects might not be cancelled or stalled as per OTL.

P.S. What happened in Operation Gullotine with the Italian fleet, didn't the French have some dive bombers serving on the Bearn?
 
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What about technology/industry/finance etc?

Finance, that could be arranged. Before the war, France sent its entire gold reserves to the US. It still would have to suck America's teats, but so would everybody else.

The industry, now - that's the real problem. You have little industry in 1940 Algeria, and little infrastructure to support it. Which also means a much smaller trained workforce as well. In this respect, France would be dependent on Britain - but its engineers and scientists would also be a welcome addition to Britain's research effort. It could be one of the first practical aspects of the unions, pooling research/production resources.

If France fights on from Northern Algeria, chances are the rest of the colonies follow suit - even if Germany set up a puppet regime in Metropolitan France. So France wouldn't have much in terms of industry, but it could contribute to its Allies' production by shipping ores, rubber, etc.
 
Atlantic Friend, an attack on Sardinia is on the cards for late September, mainly in order to better cover Corsica's south and to deny the Axis an important base. The fate of the Italian navy, will be mentionned in the next chapter whose title is Operation Guillotine. A cookie to anyone who correctly guess what lies behind this mysterious title ;).

Ah, good. Not sure a battered France could seize and hold Sardinia so early, but it'd probably have on the Union the same moral impact as Mers el Kébir had for OTL Britain - with the added advantage of destroying enemy assets for a change.

If France's still in the fight, I also suppose the Armée du Levant is available and can be moved from its Syrian and Lebanese bases. They're good troops, with Légionnaires.
 
While I don't agree with the exact timeframe, I think it's a safe bet that North Africa would be secure before the Germans could intervene. Leclerc/d'Hautecloque would only have been a Major, maybe a Lieutenant Colonel by July 1940 (assume he gets promoted during the retreat, and again prior to "L'Operation Compasse"), so he would probably be commanding a flying column rather than all of france's available mobile forces. Still, he would probably have been in command during a crucial engagement with the encireclement of the Italian 5 Army. He'd probably be a full Colonel by the end of the Campaign though.

Don't forget that the Italians also launched an offensive into East Africa, so it might make sense to use some available French manpower to shore up positions there.

Speaking of Italy, keep in mind that Italy's been in the war for less than a year and they've already lost all of their Empire, 2 armies and a significant proportion of their fleet as well as a potential successor for Benny the Moose.

This leads onto the final point: Propaganda.
Balbo's capture ITTL could be easily exploited to destabilise the Fascist regime in Rome, plus of course, in spite of losing Metropolitan France, the Allies have won a significant and unambiguous victory, which could count favourably in their relations with the US, particularly with regard to high command later in the war...
 
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What about technology/industry/finance etc?

As to the North Africa offensive, I doubt the French would have have the armour or the organisation in place for anything more than a spoiling offensive, but then if the Italians are surprised by a simultaneous attack from East and West there could well be a collapse in coordination, perhaps landings on coastal roads etc to this end. Although I think that what with the chaos of the big move I think that the offensive would begin and end later than July-August.

Another thing that occurs is the mechanics of Lend Lease. Unlike in FFO where France gets the lion's share of LL and Britain gets a much better deal economically, Britain and France are one nation ITTL.

In FFO the French attack on Libya occurs from mid July onwards, which is pretty much the same timescale as mine expect a that here the attack starts a week later relative to FFO.
There was a great deal of military infrastructures available in Tunisia precisely with that kind of offensive in mind. Tanks were available in Tunisia as well albeit not in massive quantities but more than enough to be an effective opposition to the M39/11 the Italians had.

Delaying the attack until September or even October does not make sense since it gives a window for the Italians to send reinforcements to Libya. There also the propaganda value of France being on the offensive while still fighting on in mainland France at work.

Lend Lease is still far away at the moment, but cash and carry with Franco-British gold used as payment carries one especially as France ordered significant numbers of planes from US manufacturers.

I can still see the Exiled French forces getting the most of the American Equipment, but the initial Cash and Carry aid will come from the combined Franco-British treasury. What then, happens to Britain and France's business assets in South American and the US ITTL?
Do they sell at firesale prices as per OTL?
Do they hold on to them as per FFO?
Do they sell them at a higher price?

Since the situation is not do desperate they hold on to them.

France naturally gets most of the 4 Pipers in the DD for B aggreement, but since The Union has more West Indian posessions than Britain alone, do you think it's reasonable to suggest that the Americans would be willing to settle for a 50 year lease rather than 99 on the bases in this region (I need an Expert on French Naval bases to see if the Americans would gain an increase in the number of bases sufficient to justify a shorter lease).

Geographically the French West Indies do not offer anything which the British West Indies can't offer, so expect things to stay the same.

Similarly with the obsolescent US merchant tonnage that historically glutted British repair yards and halted heavy warship production for a crucual 6 months might be averted or ameliaorated with access to French colonial ports. Since Britain has more breathing space and we can assume a less costly Battle of Britain (The Luftwaffe takes heavier losses over France ITTL and starts later right?), there might not be the panic reaction that prompted the UK to runs its industry into the ground and therefore there might be a greater investment in modernisation and some of the promising industrial and military projects might not be cancelled or stalled as per OTL.

P.S. What happened in Operation Gullotine with the Italian fleet, didn't the French have some dive bombers serving on the Bearn?

The UK will not run its industry to the ground at least not as much as OTL. Research and technology is indeed an area where efforts will be pooled very early on especially in cryptography, radar, aeronautics and the biggie nuclear knowledge. I intend this common research effort to yield more results than OTL and ideally for such results to lay the ground for the post-war "Franco-British Miracle". A jet age starting in the early 1950s instead of the late 1950s is a strong desire of mine I must say.

Since you seems to know a fair bit in this subject, I would be grateful for any sources you may have, especially books and articles as I might be able to get them though the University of Bath library.

Atlantic Friend said:
The industry, now - that's the real problem. You have little industry in 1940 Algeria, and little infrastructure to support it. Which also means a much smaller trained workforce as well. In this respect, France would be dependent on Britain - but its engineers and scientists would also be a welcome addition to Britain's research effort. It could be one of the first practical aspects of the unions, pooling research/production resources.

If France fights on from Northern Algeria, chances are the rest of the colonies follow suit - even if Germany set up a puppet regime in Metropolitan France. So France wouldn't have much in terms of industry, but it could contribute to its Allies' production by shipping ores, rubber, etc.

Thence the reason why I mentionned in chapter 4 the evacuation of technical and scientific personnel to Britain instead of Algeria as in FFO. In FFO, steelworks and ordnance factories are built in Algeria coming online during late 1942 and 1943. Nothing of the sort will happen here as it simply does not make sense. Efforts will nevertheless be made to increase the agricultural output of French Northern Africa and to improve the transport infrastructure. A Casablanca-Cairo railway is on the cards in order to release shipping to other duties, but it won't come online until late 1942 at best.

I am a fan of your Crossfire TL by the way, I started to read it on the paradox forum when it first started. It seems appropriate for Colonel La Rocque to play a role in this TL too, as he is the kind of politician which would have gained preeminence in this scenario. Any suggestions? Do you think that he would have stayed in France or moved over to Algeria?
 
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