The Swiss Guard in WWII

The Swiss guard would be a minor speed bump. I'm sure they didn't have tanks or anti-tank weapons, I doubt they had machine guns, even.

The citizens of Rome (and probably the Italian army, or significant portions thereof) would be a rather bigger speed bump.

Trying to do this would be an unmitigated disaster for the Nazis. Remember about half of Germany is Catholic. Of course, being Nazis, they might still go ahead with it, but I bet the war ends earlier as the régime has to deal with far more internal dissent than iOTL.

For that matter, it would be a good excuse for Spain, Portugal and most of Latin America to jump in on the Allied side....
 
The Swiss guard is elite no doubt but at their peak they could never be considered an army to do any more than slow the Germans slightly. But arresting the Pope would be such a scandal the Nazis wouldn't dare
 
The Swiss guard is elite no doubt but at their peak they could never be considered an army to do any more than slow the Germans slightly. But arresting the Pope would be such a scandal the Nazis wouldn't dare
Oh, the Nazis dared lots of stupid things. I think it's within Hitler's insanity to demand the Pope be captured/killed. It would be amazingly counterproductive, of course. Even worse than exterminating Jews in death camps. But counterproductive and Nazi are a fairly good fit....
 
Oh, the Nazis dared lots of stupid things. I think it's within Hitler's insanity to demand the Pope be captured/killed. It would be amazingly counterproductive, of course. Even worse than exterminating Jews in death camps. But counterproductive and Nazi are a fairly good fit....

They did many stupid things but Hitler was a politician. His job was to keep the majority groups of Germany happy, and he did so more often than not by oppressing minorities, but the Catholics weren't a minority at all. And if he arrested the Pope he wouldn't be acting in accordance with how he usually did.
 
In practical terms the Pope was 'detained' he was unable to leave Vatican City without coordination with the German ambassadors staff - there was a German ambassador to the Vatican. The Germans monitored closely the radio messages from the Vatican City, they monitored everyone who went in or out & detained & interrogated those they were suspicious of. In the end the Pope was not much better off than any of the Catholic Bishops in any other occupied region.
 
In addition to the Swiss guard, at this time there where several other units guarding the pope. I think all together he had a little under 6000 troops protecting him
 
In addition to the Swiss guard, at this time there where several other units guarding the pope. I think all together he had a little under 6000 troops protecting him

And they were equiped with the little known but highly efective Rosario LMG. Capable of putting out a rate of fire of 570 Lord's Prayers per minute. And if they had 6000 troops protecting the pope just where the hell did they put them
 
And they were equiped with the little known but highly efective Rosario LMG. Capable of putting out a rate of fire of 570 Lord's Prayers per minute. And if they had 6000 troops protecting the pope just where the hell did they put them
I think most were simple local Italians in a militia who where loyal to the pope
 

Minty_Fresh

Banned
The Nazis were not stupid enough to do this. They did many many stupid things, but they would not do this. Everything they did was judged by whether or not it would be accepted by Germans. Violent anti-semitism was as German as wiener schnitzel and was arguably a more popular part of their party platform than anti-Communism among the common people.

Going after Christianity was always the toughest thing for them to internally do, and actually led to protests. DeChristianization was something that people like Bormann and Goebbels may have favored, but Hitler insisted that Germany was not ready for it and would not be for a few generations. You alienate almost all of Southern Germany and Austria by going after the Pope like that. The German Army's Prussian officer corps might not have cared, as anti-Catholic sentiment ran rampant, but it would have been a politically suicidal move.

As for OP, not long at all. Probably less than a few hours at the very most.
 
To answer the OP they will do very little. I think if it came down to it Hitler may well arrest/detain/kill the Pope if he truly wanted to. He might utilize Italian agents and then blame the Resistance.
 
Technically, the Germans couldn't arrest the Pope, since Pius XII left instructions that "If he were arrested and conducted beyond the walls of Rome, he would have been immediately considered to have given up the throne of Peter <thus> the prisoner would be Eugenio Pacelli (his baptismal name) and not the pope."
 
Had the Germans decided to "detain" the Pope, how long could the Swiss Guard stand against the Germans?


There was also the Palatine Guard (2000 members due to WW2, prior only 500), the Noble guard (armed with Pistols) and the Papal Gendarmerie (all abolished in the 1970es due to reforms). The Vatican had quite a big military force.
 
Last edited:
Top