The Sunne in Splendour: A War of the Roses Timeline

No matter what happened, even if they had the bodies at the time it would’ve been detrimental for Richard’s public image to show them to the public. He was responsible for them, so he was who people would blame.

Henry VII didn’t start pushing his claim until 1483, but he had been the Lancastrian heir in the eyes of some since 1471 when Henry VI and Edward of Westminster both died. And even so, his claim was weak given that not only did it come from his mother, but also by illegitimate descent. We can assume he realized this since he claimed the throne by right of conquest and not by his bloodline.

In any case, there were other Yorkist heirs like Edward, Earl of Warwick or John de la Pole to rally around as an alternative to Richard. Bills of attainder could be reversed (in the case of Warwick). And de la Pole was already a grown man which would mean there was no need for a regency (although it presents the issue of coming from the female rather than the male line).
The fact that dying in his care is such an undermine for his reign is the main reason I doubt he personally did or ordered it. Going by his life before he wasn't stupid or short sighted that way.
Anne being involved would be a very good reason to keep quiet. Especially if the obvious scapegoats knew she was.
 
The fact that dying in his care is such an undermine for his reign is the main reason I doubt he personally did or ordered it. Going by his life before he wasn't stupid or short sighted that way.
Anne being involved would be a very good reason to keep quiet. Especially if the obvious scapegoats knew she was.
But also the princes' living would always cause problems for him, since there would be those who'd see them as true heirs to the throne. The girls were no threat, considering there were no attempted rebellions such as there was with Perkin Warbeck and Lambert Simnel.
 
March 1473. Convent of St Vincent, England.

Jane Woodville stroked the wisps of Madeleine’s hair as she pushed, murmuring encouragements into her ear. In the tight, darkened room in the Convent of St Vincent, near the English city of Watford, the Queen was giving birth to her seventh child after having just lost her sixth.

“Hail Mary, full of grace,” the nuns that surrounded her pray. Some were assisting her and others kneeled before her bed, praying and beseeching the Lord to keep safe this woman, the consort of their most gracious King and mother fo his children, to keep safe this new heir. “The Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.”

“Am I cursed?” Madeleine chocked out. She was sprawled on all fours on the bed, supporting her weight with her elbows and her knees, her hair hanging around her field of vision like a brown curtain. She was sweaty, skin warm and her pains were blinding, deafening. White, hot pain. She could barely think beyond it. “Will all my children die?”

“No, Your Grace,” said Jane Woodville, rubbing her back soothingly. “Just one big push and you will be done.”

“I can’t,” she cried. “It’s too soon.”

“No, it’s not, Your Grace,” said Margaret Beaufort, one hand on her ankles. There were no midwives in there, only her ladies and the nuns would help her. They had assumed Kings Langley would have one present, or in the close by villages. Now, it was all in the hands of the Lord. “It’s the right time. You and the child are ready. One big push, that’s all you need.”

Her position gave some freedom to the rise and fall of her chest, allowing her to breathe more easily than she had in the previous eight and a half months. Madeleine took one deep breath and closed her eyes, a scream torn from her throat as she pushed, uncaring of who watched her or who heard her, uncaring of her status and dignity as Queen.

“Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. “ She could feel her entire body tearing into two, something as warm and slick as blood trickling down her legs. “Benedicta tu in mulieribus, et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Jesus. Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen.”

“That’s it,” said Jane Woodville, pressing a cool rag to the back of her neck. Madeleine let out a breath and then took in another one, letting her head fall forward as she continued to push. “You’re nearly there, Your Grace.”

“I can see him,” someone said. Madeleine thought it was a nun, for she did not recognize the voice. The words encouraged her and she let her eyes fall close, her body and head heavy as she took in another deep breath. When her stomach started to cramp again, she pushed with all of her strength, tightening her fists on the coarse sheets of the bed. “He’s coming, Your Grace. You can do it.”

“Please, Lord, save him. I can’t lose him too,” she thought, or said. Madeleine could feel her entire body stiffening, her head aching as she held her breath and pushed, feeling as the baby slid out of her in a mix of blood, fluids and perfect flesh.

The relief of the pain and pressure was immediate and she sagged on the bed, her legs giving out as she dropped down. Her ears were still ringing from her own screams when she heard the loud cry of healthy lungs opening up for the first to the world and tears burned her eyes.

Madeleine turned on the bed, laying her back against the stiff mattress. She was covered in a thick sheen of sweat, flushed and sore all over. She couldn’t feel her legs, her thighs were trembling, but still, she raised her eyes to Lady Richmond, who was cleaning her baby with fresh water from the basin while another nun offered her clean linen to wrap the child in.

“Is it a boy?” she asked, weakly.

It was Jane Woodville who answered her, still stroking her hair and pressing wet rags to her skin. “It’s a girl, Your Grace,” she said. “A beautiful and healthy girl.”

Madeleine didn’t hesitate to stretch forward with her arms, despite her exhaustion. Her tears slid down hotly from her cheeks and eyes, pooling beside her face on the mattress and mixing with her sweat.

“Let me hold her,” she begged. “Give her to me.” Lady Richmond placed her daughter atop her chest and Madeleine cried even harder, pressing a shaky kiss to the baby’s mucus-covered forehead. Her face was still swollen and wrinkly, her arms red and spindly, but Madeleine could see how perfect she was, how beautiful. She had Edward’s nose, wisps of golden hair covering her head and a perfect chin.

“She’s beautiful, Your Grace,” said Jane Woodville, placing another sheet of linen atop mother and daughter.

Madeleine nodded, trying to wipe away her tears and the snot that had escaped from her nose. She pressed another kiss to her face, observing as she slowly began to stop crying, pressing her cheek against her chest. No one said anything when she pulled down the neckline of her dress, offering the child her breast, but she could feel their gazes on her.

“The Virgin gave her to me,” said the Queen of England as her daughter slowly began to eat. It ached in a way she didn’t think possible, probably because she wasn’t used to it, but she did not care. “To dull the pain of my loss, the Virgin blessed me with a new child.”

“What shall you name her, Your Grace?” asked Jane.

Madeleine chuckled, still crying. “Is it not obvious?” she asked. “See the new daughter of your King, Jane.” Madeleine pressed a kiss to her little face. “Mary of York.”
God bless the new English princess, Mary of York!!!!


And I did notice that she's the perfect age to marry the future James IV of Scotland.
 
But also the princes' living would always cause problems for him, since there would be those who'd see them as true heirs to the throne. The girls were no threat, considering there were no attempted rebellions such as there was with Perkin Warbeck and Lambert Simnel.
It was a terrible position. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Almost like Richard SHOULDN'T have taken the throne.
 
So glad that Madeline and her newest child are healthy and well, hopefully this gives her something to distract from little George's death... Mary is a lovely name, and truly fitting in this moment.
Mary really is a beautiful name. And I wonder whether she'll be her parents' last child.
 
Mary really is a beautiful name. And I wonder whether she'll be her parents' last child.
About her having any younger siblings, we'll have to see, though it's worth to know that I had great difficulty naming the last children of Edward and Madeleine because I had already used the good names for their older siblings.

Mary is also the name of Madeleine's mother, so there is a family connection to it.
 
Mary really is a beautiful name. And I wonder whether she'll be her parents' last child.

Well Cecily Neville had her last pregnancy at 40 and Marie of Anjou's last child was born when she was 42. The child, Charles lived until he was 25.

And by this time Madeleine is 29 – she turns 30 at the end of the year. Unless something terrible happens, there's still time for a few more pregnancies.

Of course, we’ll have to wait and see what else has @pandizzy planned for the TL
 
Well Cecily Neville had her last pregnancy at 40 and Marie of Anjou's last child was born when she was 42. The child, Charles lived until he was 25.

And by this time Madeleine is 29 – she turns 30 at the end of the year. Unless something terrible happens, there's still time for a few more pregnancies.

Of course, we’ll have to wait and see what else has @pandizzy planned for the TL
Bridget of York was born when her mother was 43. There's still plenty of time for Madeleine to have more children.
 
Well Cecily Neville had her last pregnancy at 40 and Marie of Anjou's last child was born when she was 42. The child, Charles lived until he was 25.

And by this time Madeleine is 29 – she turns 30 at the end of the year. Unless something terrible happens, there's still time for a few more pregnancies.

Of course, we’ll have to wait and see what else has @pandizzy planned for the TL
I hope this isn't Madeleine's last child. I think there should be at least an Edmund in this family. Its not fair that George gets a namesake nephew, but Rutland doesn't.
 
Family Tree - Yorks
Can we have a family tree for Edward and Madeleine?
Edward IV of England (April 1442-) m. Madeleine de Valois (December 1443-)
  1. Edward of Eltham, Prince of Wales (April 1465-)
  2. Magdalene of York (March 1466-) b. Maximilian of Austria (March 1459-)
  3. Cecily of York (December 1467-) b. Charles, Count of Charolais (January 1467-)
  4. Richard, Duke of York (October 1468 -)
  5. Catherine of York (November 1469-) b. Frederick of Denmark (October 1471-)
  6. George, Duke of Bedford (February 1472-March 1473)
  7. Mary of York (March 1473-)
 
Last edited:
Edward IV of England (April 1442-) m. Madeleine de Valois (December 1443-)
  1. Edward of Eltham, Prince of Wales (April 1465-)
  2. Magdalene of York (March 1466-) b. Maximilian of Austria (March 1459-)
  3. Cecily of York (December 1467-) b. Charles, Count of Charolais (January 1467-)
  4. Richard, Duke of York (October 1468 -)
  5. Catherine of York (November 1469-) b. Frederick of Denmark (October 1471-)
  6. George, Duke of Bedford (February 1472-March 1473)
  7. Mary of York (March 1473-)
So are we gonna talk about the fact that their daughters' names either start with M or C? Or was I the only one who noticed This?
 
So are we gonna talk about the fact that their daughters' names either start with M or C? Or was I the only one who noticed This?
Lol. In my first draft, I wrote Catherine with a K instead of a C, but had to change it when I figured out the reason of her name being that, since Catherine of Alexandria is most commonly written with a C nowadays.

Also, there were many times during the brainstorming sessions where I was trying to avoid having too many daughters with names starting with M and yet, here we are.
 
Catherine of York is bethrothed to Frederick of Denmark. Does otl Hans die or what? Because if he is alive, Frederick is a low price honestly
 
But also the princes' living would always cause problems for him, since there would be those who'd see them as true heirs to the throne. The girls were no threat, considering there were no attempted rebellions such as there was with Perkin Warbeck and Lambert Simnel.
Once they were of age they could easily be accused of a rebellion attempt and executed for treason.
Heck, Perkin could even have been Richard of Shrewsbury.
 
Top