The Sun, The Stars and The Sickle: Alt-WWII and a Tripolar Postwar World

[Luminous]

Also would the US meddle with India, knowing how important it is for Britain ? Putting pressure on Britain "Don't forget to give independence to India as you promised" is one thing, but directly interfering while India is still British... Thing is, the US want to keep their friendship (or at the very least decent relations) with Britain.

As of now in the story? yes. But Indian independence is likely getting delayed again - there should be no arrest of the Indian National Congress, as by the time that should be arising as per OTL, the British will be in a much better position to handle it as per OTL. From there on, you could end up with the UK supporting the Muslim League (which isn't as strong as OTL as the aforementioned was not jailed) against the INC, and in total they end up continuing their divide and rule strategy either by supporting the minority against the Indian majority, or by supporting a larger Muslim Dominion within the larger Indian Raj, or straight out cutting their losses and supporting a greater Pakistan that would remain their ally.

Regardless, assuming the war ends ahead of schedule, with the UK and France and Japan being tied into a close alliance (the US isn't needed at the head of the alliance so much as there should be a strong Italy on the continent who is anti-Soviet. Whether or not Italy can make up for the US (they can't) they can make the appearance of the position of France et al being stronger, reducing the need for the strong alliance).

It's not going to be one big event. But combine a delayed and bloodier Indian independence on top of Suez being forced through by the Anglo-French (and ignoring censures by the US and USSR) combined with Algeria and combined with any number of other events we haven't considered in the postwar world (any China/Germany fallout, Indonesia, etc). Combine that with armed standoffs and blunders, and it could be forced in that direction, though the drifting would take years. This Cold War, as it were, may not even begin until the 60s officially, but could grow until then.

 

[skarosianlifeform]

Good idea. I was thinking of three-way Cold War right after WWII, but yes, it could start as a mostly two-way Cold War (ie. Imperials vs Soviets, US vs Soviets, with the US having decent-to-good but not that close relations with the Imperials) and then turn into a true three-way struggle with time.

What is unrealistic is the US and Imperials becoming full-blown enemies in the late 40s.

 

[Luminous]

Good idea. I was thinking of three-way Cold War right after WWII, but yes, it could start as a mostly two-way Cold War (ie. Imperials vs Soviets, US vs Soviets, with the US having decent-to-good but not that close relations with the Imperials) and then turn into a true three-way struggle with time.

What is unrealistic is the US and Imperials becoming full-blown enemies in the late 40s.

Indeed, especially after fighting on the same side. Though, if the US detonates a weapon before the UK and co, that could scare them if they aren't sharing resources and helping each other out on the super weapon. Not the way to completely provoke the reactions as the Soviets did with the US, but enough to worry the other nations on their own.

 

[TrashMan]

Quite the interesting timeline going on. Now I'm finally caught up to the lastest part of the TL. Keep up the good work!

 

[Britannia]

Britain has a very large advantage over the US in Norwegian heavy water which will be concerning to America and they have no lack in uranium with sites in the Congo and Canada, actually on that note Canada will be very interesting being a large point of contention between the Imperials and the US sphere (we need a better name for that how about Monroe sphere) I see the liberals being more pro Monroe and the Conservatives pro UK. I can’t wait to hear the heated debates in the Canadian parliament (and all the sorrys afterward)

 

[WaterproofPotatoes]

Great questions all, and thank you for your interest in my TL! I'll try to address everything I may have missed.

Probably under house arrest in Paris.

Pétain is indeed under house arrest in Paris.

Yeah, I see a TTL Monroe Doctrine that's more like the MONROE DOCTRINE - Violate it, and you WILL bleed, whether you're a Red or an Imperialist.

Did Argentina take it's OTL suicide pill of Revolution, or is it still a major economic player?

As of yet, the Infamous Decade still happened as in OTL, but the OTL 1943 coup has not happened earlier.

Britain has a very large advantage over the US in Norwegian heavy water which will be concerning to America and they have no lack in uranium with sites in the Congo and Canada, actually on that note Canada will be very interesting being a large point of contention between the Imperials and the US sphere (we need a better name for that how about Monroe sphere) I see the liberals being more pro Monroe and the Conservatives pro UK. I can’t wait to hear the heated debates in the Canadian parliament (and all the sorrys afterward)

The Liberty Bloc is the label on the package, although I quite like the Monroe reference as well!

Canada will indeed be an important "bridge" between the two blocs, and I have given some thought as to how the Conservatives are more likely to be pro-UK and the Liberals pro-USA, although with such a long border, the USA is very likely to become Canada's largest trade partner at some point.Canada may also wind up with a different flag!

As for nuclear events, I can't reveal too much yet, other than it won't be Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

 

[Rufus Shinra]

Canada will indeed be an important "bridge" between the two blocs, and I have given some thought as to how the Conservatives are more likely to be pro-UK and the Liberals pro-USA, although with such a long border, the USA is very likely to become Canada's largest trade partner at some point.Canada may also wind up with a different flag!

Montréal, city of spies. The place were the Stars and the Sun meet, trade and stab all in the same day, without breaking the smile.

 

[IndefatigableRN]

Great questions all, and thank you for your interest in my TL! I'll try to address everything I may have missed.



Pétain is indeed under house arrest in Paris.



As of yet, the Infamous Decade still happened as in OTL, but the OTL 1943 coup has not happened earlier.



The Liberty Bloc is the label on the package, although I quite like the Monroe reference as well!

Canada will indeed be an important "bridge" between the two blocs, and I have given some thought as to how the Conservatives are more likely to be pro-UK and the Liberals pro-USA, although with such a long border, the USA is very likely to become Canada's largest trade partner at some point.Canada may also wind up with a different flag!

As for nuclear events, I can't reveal too much yet, other than it won't be Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

I believe that the US was already Canada’s largest trading partner before OTL WWII and I doubt things will have changed drastically enough to have prevented that in TTL.

 

[WaterproofPotatoes]

I believe that the US was already Canada’s largest trading partner before OTL WWII and I doubt things will have changed drastically enough to have prevented that in TTL.

True on both counts, not even a stronger UK can prevent that.

 

[Britannia]

I do wonder if Canada will have the suez betrayal like IOTL that would be a real wound to Britain’s pride (though not as much as IOTL) it will probably depend on the election results

 

[WaterproofPotatoes]

I do wonder if Canada will have the suez betrayal like IOTL that would be a real wound to Britain’s pride (though not as much as IOTL) it will probably depend on the election results

Not to worry, I have something big planned for that . We'll get there eventually- I should get back to the story before giving away too much!

 

[skarosianlifeform]

Actually Suez Crisis as we knew it might not happen, and be replaced by a crisis about Iran nationalizing oil or something else. Egypt would not be too reckless with Italians at the border.

 

[Britannia]

Actually Suez Crisis as we knew it might not happen, and be replaced by a crisis about Iran nationalizing oil or something else. Egypt would not be too reckless with Italians at the border.

A war between the Saudis and the Persians could be the catalyst of the Imperial Liberty split as they are rivals in the region with Arabia with US backing and Persia with Britain who now show that would spiral out

 

[WaterproofPotatoes]

Excerpts from "The Union of China: A Star Rises in the East" I. Kwong, Random House, 2002


THE Handover of Beijing from the Empire of Japan to the Union of China provided more than just a capital to the latter, but laid the foundation for relations between the two powers.

Beijing had been under Japanese occupation for just under two years. While it had been an orderly occupation, it was an occupation nonetheless, and Beijing's residents were glad to see the city returned to Chinese hands, especially under familiar leadership.

The handover ceremony, originally scheduled for September 1st, 1941, was advanced to August 21st, to facilitate planning for the assault on Nanking. Wu Peifu and Sun Chuanfang had arrived several days in advance, received with a welcome ceremony from the Kwantung Army, with General Hideki Tojo presiding.

The military ceremony was widely attended by dignitaries from the various Allied powers- MacArthur from the USA, immediately after a meeting with General Count Terauchi in Tsingtao; Lord Mountbatten from the UK, and a larger Japanese complement- Tojo was also accompanied by Field Marshal Prince Morimasa Nashimoto and General Shunroku Hata. Unbeknownst to Tojo, Hata was set to replace him as commanding officer of the Kwantung Army.

The stress the war was putting upon the general officers of the IJA was readily evident- General Iwane Matsui, who assisted in brokering the peace treaty had fallen ill with pneumonia and was unable to attend. Prince Nashimoto attended in his stead; a visit from Prince Asaka, now high priest of the Ise Shrine, was deemed inexpedient due to his bad reputation as an ineffective commander of the Kwantung Army.

The months prior to the handover ceremony were no less stressful for Tojo, who had to balance not only the responsibilities of command, but also coordinating operations with Manchukuo and Mengjiang, as well as diverting units to defend the coast. Tojo could not disguise the effects the stress of command had taken on his health. His increasingly gaunt physique did not fill out the new Type 1 uniform that had been sent from Japan, and a bad cough that he could not rid himself of. Tojo's condition, although a cause for concern, did not prevent his participation.


The ceremony, commencing at 10 AM, was held outside the gates of Tianenmen, upon which the new flag of the Union of China was unveiled*.

In view of the dignitaries, Wu, in his role as Commander-in-Chief of the Union Army, a function of his office as President; and Tojo reviewed IJA and Union Army troops. Upon conclusion, Wu formally relieved Tojo, and the Japanese troops marched down Zhongshan Road to music provided by an IJA band.

The civilian celebrations were decidedly more boisterous, including night after night of fireworks. While the occupation was largely peaceful and orderly, Beijing's population nonetheless chafed under the harsh Japanese regulations, which extended down to hefty fines for spitting in the street, and constant surveilance by the kempeitai for any inkling of conspiracy or sabotage.

Wu's Union of China proved popular in Beijing; not only was it local rule, Wu promised expanded workers' rights in addition to protection against Southern warlords.

The road, however, would be a long one, and the journey had just begun.

---

@Luminous in yet another exhibition of tremendous skill, has created a flag for the Union of China, to be revealed soon!

 

[Luminous]

@Luminous in yet another exhibition of tremendous skill, has created a flag for the Union of China, to be revealed soon!

Or, when I get off work. But nah, I'm just banging rocks together here.

But here you go: the Beiyang star centered upon the sun of the three-legged crow eclipsed by the bright rays of said star, with the sun's one ray the way towards immortality through purity

 

[Britannia]

Now that looks lovely

 

[Winged-One]

That's definitely a flag I can get behind.

Looks like a flag if it was designed in the 21st Century though lol

 

[Luminous]

That's definitely a flag I can get behind.

Looks like a flag if it was designed in the 21st Century though lol

Well, I did consider at first to combine the Beiyang Star with the Five Nations under one banner. The results were... messy, so I quickly got rid of those and moved on to... about a dozen different iterations before I ended with that. Though, on a very superficial sense, it reminds me a bit of the Blood Stained Banner, so we might get some uncomfortable comments from the US

 

[dakkafex]

That's definitely a flag I can get behind.

Looks like a flag if it was designed in the 21st Century though lol

Yeah, it's very clean and logo-y, like a Japanese prefectural flag (which, given the UoC and Japan's relationship, might be intentional on the part of the artist). I don't mean that as a slight, not at all, but it's not quite as messy as I was expecting from a group trying to wrangle a lot of different factions together. I will quibble with the vertical grey band on the fly end, though, as I'm not sure how distinguishable that would be at a distance, but the rest of the flag is distinctive enough that that minor detail shouldn't make any difference.

 

[Md139115]

Am I the only one who sees it and thinks “Pittsburgh Steelers?”