Glad you appreciate my work.
If like the others you feel like sharing a detailed opinion don't hesitate, even if I don't necessarily answer I read them all. 🙂
The Sun of Rocroi TL- A better Grand Condé
- Thread starter Comte de Dordogne
- Start date
If like the others you feel like sharing a detailed opinion don't hesitate, even if I don't necessarily answer I read them all. 🙂
Not really, I like your details and the way you make things change. I did history but more about Louis XIV than the Fronde
Hello everyone, I hope you are well.
I'll keep you informed about my timeline. I started my midterms this week and I finish them on December 15th. Then I hope to have time during my vacations to provide you with a new chapter.
In addition, I have obtained various history books from a friend, including several on the reign of Louis XIV, and I plan to use them as material for my chronology.
In the meantime I encourage you if you want to continue to offer me ideas or opinions, either here or in private messages.
See you soon I hope. 🙂
I'll keep you informed about my timeline. I started my midterms this week and I finish them on December 15th. Then I hope to have time during my vacations to provide you with a new chapter.
In addition, I have obtained various history books from a friend, including several on the reign of Louis XIV, and I plan to use them as material for my chronology.
In the meantime I encourage you if you want to continue to offer me ideas or opinions, either here or in private messages.
See you soon I hope. 🙂
France with the southern Netherlands is going to be an even bigger giant than it already is isn’t it? I can already imagine France enjoying greater success in annexing more of the HRE.
The Netherlands are going to be pro-French right? Considering how the French intervention basically helped them gain independence?
As for Spain I imagine they’ll be less focused on Europe thanks to the loss of all of the Netherlands right? I know they have a few more territories but I don’t think they’re as valuable anymore.
The Netherlands are going to be pro-French right? Considering how the French intervention basically helped them gain independence?
As for Spain I imagine they’ll be less focused on Europe thanks to the loss of all of the Netherlands right? I know they have a few more territories but I don’t think they’re as valuable anymore.
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And besides the pure geography (more is not always better as Nappy had chance to find out 😉), this would make a lot of sense economically:
Belgium had a well-developed manufacturing which would fit into Colbert’s attempt to build-up the French industries (of course, over-regulation and Louis had been major negative factors but hopefully @Comte de Dordogne will deal with these “trifles” 😎). OTOH, the Netherlands had been heavily in trading, not a production, so they’d go together well if, again, not the leadership’s personalities on both sides. Louis was, justifiably, feared but de Witt’s remedy was to turn fear into a reality instead of trying to get closer to France because both had a”natural enemy”, Britain So in OTL the Provinces found themselves fighting both France and Nritain and then allying with Britain against France at the cost of their trade interests: quite predictably, as a senior member of the partnership, Britain was looking for its own interests and by the end of WoSS the Netherlands had been on a verge of a bankruptcy and by the end of the GNW they lost their positions in trade with Sweden and Russia to Britain (by that time they were so out of money that they could not even raise a squadron of 10 warships to escort the merchant convoys on the Baltic).
So, yes, at the point were this TL a stopped there is a reasonable hope for the better future for these countries.
Spain still have big possessions in Italy but is not going to be distracted by an extra front which it can’t defend.
Now, as far as the territorial extensions are involved, author already created the vassal states on the French Northern border (Luxembourg ruled by Wallenstein dynasty and, IIRC, something else) and, with the Hapsburgs out of Belgium, paranoia about the “Hapsburg encirclement” and the borders on the Rhine may (or may not) be gone depending on author’s intention. Personally, I’m waiting for his next geopolitical move. 🤪
Even without Habsburg encirclement the French are still going to be motivated to expand just cause. Even when Spain was ruled by the Bourbons Louis XV was still determined to expand. I can definitely see France getting almost all of the Rhineland from the HRE and maybe a few Italian states.
That's possible but the point remains that within this TL scenario (friendly Netherlands, French Belgium, vassal Luxemburg) the "north-western theater" is gone while in OTL it was amounting to a big share of fighting and resources (Vauban's defensive belt was very expensive and considerable percentage of the French army was used to garrison it)
Even, if push eventually comes to shove, the British intervention on land becomes much more difficult because the Netherlands are not going to provide a base and there would be a need to find a suitable ally somewhere to the North of the Provinces making the whole schema much more difficult, especially if the Brits would have to face both the Dutch and French navies.
If Louis XIV doesn't do anything, indeed getting the Netherlands will be a big bonus for France. Moreover the war with Spain and the Holy Empire ending it leaves the civilian population suffering less from the war and better to flourish.
As far as the annexation of land in the Holy Empire is concerned, France must be careful. Luxembourg is already a pro-French buffer and to make an enemy of it would be dangerous.
OTL the French also helped the independence of the United Provinces, but fear of French ambitions (and misunderstanding) made enemies of them. Here with a common border the Dutch can also be more paranoid. But with the survival of the Stathouderat and a French marriage it seems to balance out.
Now the French and the Dutch seem to have left to help each other. For how long?
Spain, by no longer having the Netherlands and avoiding the disastrous reign of OTL Carlos II, is doing much better. But they still have a vast and still fragile Empire. Portugal can still be restless, the colonial empire remains very large and the Spanish possessions in Italy can still attract covetousness.
I couldn't agree with you more. After finishing my tour of Europe I will talk about colonial empires and come back with a chapter on the reign of Louis XIV. It will be very different from OTL.
OTL under Louis XV there was still the "ghost of encirclement", the Southern Netherlands being still under the control of Vienna (but this is opposed to Louis XV giving them back these lands after having obtained them).
ITTL there are no more enemies at the northern border of France, it is even the latter that can pass for an enemy to its neighbors.
Afterwards, if Louis XIV has the "brilliant idea" to attack Holland or Luxembourg, the conflicts in the north could resume at the border.
As for an expansion in the HRE why not, but again Louis XIV must avoid "offending" his German allies as he did OTL.
Italy can be interesting but if it's against Spain they'll be focused on it (as pointed out by @alexmilman)
The absence of a front in the northwest will free up many French resources that can be dispersed elsewhere. Vauban will be "bored" without the many fortresses he built.
Even if England is in a much less pleasant situation than OTL, it will still try to intervene on the continent.
Also I’m surprised how France taking the Spanish Netherlands in one fell swoop got the war to start. Why didn’t France’s allies or the Catholic side’s enemies tried to exploit this and seize more land with Spain crippled even more?
Also could Louis XIV create a dynastic union with Luxembourg or no?
Also could Louis XIV create a dynastic union with Luxembourg or no?
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For several reasons:
-By obtaining the Netherlands so easily, the Imperial camp became afraid, by taking too long to ask for Peace the risk for them was that France would take much more.
-Nor did France seek to take more land and agree to negotiate so as not to alienate its allies by masquerading as an over-powerful war machine. Moreover, compared to the OTL, the Protestant camp with the survival of Gustave Adolphe sought earlier to end the war.
That's how we end up with a Franche-Comté that remains Spanish.
If by Dynastic Union you mean a marriage between the House of Bourbon and the House of Wallenstein, yes it could happen even though Wallenstein is a house with little prestige and ancestry.
If by Dynastic Union you mean a personal union between France and Luxembourg then don't expect it to happen. Or in a very long time and in a totally different context.
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If a model of economic cooperation is working than it can last “forever”, especially taking into an account that with any realistic change of the Dutch government the provinces and even the individual cities had plenty of a latitude in implementing their individual policies (*)
Regarding Vauban, even if the fortresses program is minimized, there are still plenty things which he can do, for example improving the French roads (IIRC, most of them had been terrible all the way to Nappy). Taking into an account that in any major war France needed to use the internal communication lines for troops movements this is quite strategic task (with an appropriate reference to the Romans). And the “roads” means bridges as well. Then there is always an open area of improvements in his siegecraft theory.
Besides purely military things, Vauban in OTL proposed a serious reform of the existing taxation system so alt-Louis could react differently and put him in charge of its implementation.
Then there are canals to be built (Phillip of Orleans built one and it turned to be quite profitable), ports to improve and defend, etc. Look at Munnich: he was also a military engineer and quite energetic one but most of his engineering activities were canals and ports.
England is going to try to interfere on the continent, especially if it ends up with a Herman dynasty, but this becomes more difficult:
1. For a land war against Spain it can make a pact with Portugal but this is useless against France unless Spain turns into a disputed war zone (WoSS).
2. It may find an ally in Germany with a coastline but this means that the troops are to be carried by a longer route and with an increasing danger of being attacked by a combined French-Dutch naval force.
3. It may try landing on a hostile territory as was done more than once during the Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars. Needless to say that all these attempts (including landings in the Netherlands during the War of Second Coalition and Walchern Campaign of 1809) failed.
On the Mediterranean Britain is lacking the naval bases all the way to the WoSS and with a Franco-Dutch alliance expeditions of that type would involve a high risk.
Which mostly leaves the colonies and in this area a lot would depend upon your model of the Franco-Dutch operations including existence or absence of a massive migration into North America, ability to impede the British access to India and existence or absence of a more aggressive French colonial policy there, etc. IMO, in this area Spain may be interested in forgetting the past and looking for a mutual defense pact with the French and Dutch (at the cost of some trade concessions). After all, England at that time is not yet a naval and economic superpower and could be stopped.
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(*) For example, during the GNW Amsterdam for years ignored directives regarding neutrality issued by the government in Hague and kept supplying Russia with the weapons plus it served as a recruitment base for the military and civic specialists willing to serve in Russia. This was causing diplomatic problems with Sweden but the merchants of Amsterdam did not care and the government could do nothing because they were in their right. Even with the stadholder model most if these rights would survive (at least for quite a while) and if everybody is happy than there would be a pressure to continue along the same lines.
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I don't know to what extent the provinces and cities of the Netherlands will continue to conduct such free economic activities. With Wilhelm II, who twisted the Republicans' necks, the "Stathouderat of the Netherlands" is much more centralized and autonomy reduced.
That's why I said Vauban will be "bored" between quotes. But compared to OTL he could be known for something else than poliorcetics (unless this time Vauban builds many fortresses in Holland and Luxembourg, although they don't face the French border).
Otherwise I do not forget Vauban's other works in the interior of the country. On the other hand, I am surprised by what you say about the roads of France. Last year in class, my history teacher explained that the royal roads were renowned throughout Europe (although maintenance problems were recurrent towards the end of the 18th century).
A Herman dynasty? German you mean?
For the time being the Stuarts have their buttocks firmly screwed on their throne of England and Scotland.
Agree with your developments. If France makes a clean sweep and keeps its allies, Great Britain is very much compromised. However, just because England's situation is precarious does not mean that she will do nothing.
As far as an alliance with France and Spain is concerned, this is likely to be complicated. Louis XIV might well be tempted to nibble a little more land among the kingdoms. Unless Louis XIV only wants to expand into the HRE (which might upset Spain's Habsburg cousins as well).
Stadtholder could make considerable changes in the area of centralization, especially when the foreign politics is involved but I'm not sure if he would be able to create a centralized state like France because opposition would be too great and (at least for quite a while) he would have neither an administrative apparatus nor the independent financial resources allowing him to eliminate semi-independence of the provinces without risking a revolution. But in your TL there is no need for anything that drastic because the general interests of a merchant class and stadtholder coincide: both are benefitting from the good relations with France.
Well, AFAIK, Nappy ordered serious improvement of the roads in France (probably because during the revolutionary times they fell into a disrepair) but in what you are saying the key words are "toward the end". According to https://www.arct.cam.ac.uk/Downloads/ichs/vol-1-791-798-conchon.pdf and https://premodeconhist.wordpress.co...tion-of-the-french-roads-in-the-18th-century/ improvement of the French roads started only in 1730s:
"During the eighteenth century the growing volume of haulage required increases in infrastructure and the widening of bridges. Many roads could only be made suitable for wheeled traffic if the narrow packhorse bridges were replaced by bridges wide enough to carry carriages and carts. There were numerous complaints from contemporary road travellers and road users about the extensive gaps, roads that were impassable for coaches, the high costs of travelling, potholes that could snap the axles of wagons and the many bridges in ruins. ... From 1738 onwards the monarchy resorted to statute labour. ...The monarchy began to classify roads according to their economic or strategic importance. Priority was given to major thoroughfares used by the postmasters and to the main highways from Paris to the frontiers and the ports. Royal instructions defined the width of different kinds of roads: the widest were three lane roads with a paved road in the middle and two dirt tracks (bermes) on either side. Unpaid duty-service was generally used in France after 1738, in order to build toll-free main roads and to keep them in good repair. This continued until the French Revolution and during this period some 24,000 kilometres of paved roads were built"
So there would be plenty of things for Vauban to do in your alt-France.
Yes, and thanks for finding: while laptop is not too ambitious, ipad always know better what I'm planning to write and sometimes I'm missing its "improvements".
Well, taking into an amazing ability of that dynasty to screw things up, it is probably a fair guess to assume that sooner rather than later their posteriors would be unscrewed. OTOH, with William married to the French Princess, the Brits would have to look for somebody else to invade and conduct alt-glorious revolution (I'm not sure what was so glorious in that coup but ...).
Of course, Britain would be doing something. My point was that it would be much more difficult for it to get directly involved in the military conflicts on the continent. "Difficult" is not the same as "impossible" but (a) it is lacking a convenient base in the friendly Netherlands and (b) it may not have a naval superiority if the French-Dutch alliance holds. Then goes financial aspect. If the Netherlands are not passing through a series of the very expensive wars in the XVII they are in a much better shape than in OTL and are not losing their markets on the Baltics and in Russia (where Archangelsk was pretty much dominated by the Dutch all the way until Peter started channeling trade into St-Petersburg) not to mention their colonies. Coordinated French-Dutch trade policy may even force Britain to abandon the Navigation Laws but even without this happening situation can develop differently from the OTL undermining some of the British wealth and resulting ability to interfere into the international affairs because their dominance in the overseas trade either does not exist or at least seriously diminished.
Of course, it is complicated but England is almost a permanent threat to the Spanish communication with the colonies either directly or through its pirates. OTOH, alt-Louis may want what from Spain? Franche-Comte? It does not look like the Spanish government cared about it too much and, with the Spanish Netherlands gone, it loses any sense strategically. Not sure how important was it for Louis but perhaps the whole thing could be negotiated (some dynastic marriage or a monetary compensation)?
The HRE problems probably would be of a lesser importance for the Spanish Hapsburgs than an improved security of their communications with the colonies.
Now, as far as the HRE is involved, IMO (and I can be wrong) one of the main Louis' problems was that he wanted to grab things for himself in the most unpleasant way and could not be trusted on rewarding his allies. In this area Nappy was much more sensible by generously giving other people's lands to his German clients. Of course, Louis would not be able to allow "generosity" on such a scale but something along these lines would definitely improve his image and provide him with the reliable allies.
Of course, purely Napoleonic scenario of dismantling the HRE is not realistic but a stable and reasonably powerful pro-French alliance could happen.
#9 Holy Roman Empire 1643-1664
The Habsburg Empire
Part 2: The Holy Roman Empire
Part 2: The Holy Roman Empire
In the middle of the 17th century, the Holy Roman Empire was only a shadow of its former self after the Twenty-five Years' War. For a long time, the conflict remained the most devastating for the Germanic lands and the European continent. The Holy Roman Empire was ravaged by numerous battles and clashes, which in some regions resulted in the loss of half or even two thirds of the population, due to fighting, looting, atrocities and diseases. The power of the Habsburgs, which had seemed invincible and overpowering since Charles V, had slowly declined after the many struggles. Foreign interference fuelled the conflict on German lands and accentuated its fragmentation and decline. It now seemed that the great power to come was no longer the German Empire.
Despite the rather bitter defeat of Vienna, the Habsburgs were not totally annihilated and managed to save at least part of their power. When Ferdinand III ascended the imperial throne in 1637, he began to look for a way to put an end as soon as possible to the conflict that was using the power of his family and his lands. Although this search for peace was shared by the Swedish King Gustav II Adolf, both sides sought to negotiate from a position of strength, thus continuing to bog down the war.
But the Spanish defeat at Rocroi in 1643 and the subsequent debacle reshuffled the cards between the different camps. For the Imperial camp the collapse of the front in the Netherlands could only lead to the concentration of French forces towards the heart of the Holy Roman Empire and the defeat of the Habsburgs in the more or less long term. Negotiations that had already begun in Westphalia led to the end of the conflict.
The Protestant camp and France succeeded in obtaining generous concessions, namely Pomerania as well as Bremen and the land on the Weser for Sweden, the Netherlands to the French. The other members of the Protestant camp also had their gains, namely the Duchy of Kleve and the County of Marck for Brandenburg, Upper and Lower Lusatia for Saxony, the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg and the Duchy of Mecklenburg for Wallenstein and finally the Duchy of Munster for the Wittelsbachs of the Palatinate.
In spite of his numerous concessions from Vienna, Ferdinand III has also advanced his pawns and gained ground on many points. He had succeeded in winning the Hessian War with his ally Hesse-Darmstadt, a firm ally of the imperial camp. In addition, the Bavarian ally obtained the electoral title of their cousins as well as the Palatinate on the Rhine. The separation of the lands of Graubünden into the Duchy of Graubünden gave Vienna a quasi-tributary state with control over the Alps and the route to Vienna. Finally, Ferdinand III succeeded in liberating the Duchy of Lorraine from French occupation, allowing Charles IV of Lorraine to regain sovereignty over its lands [1] despite France's recognition of the annexation of the three bishoprics and the Duchy of Bar.
Ferdinand III tried in vain to keep the Empire united, but the latter had already begun a slow descent degrading the whole. With the Treaties of Westphalia, the sovereignty of the states began to be recognised within the Holy Empire, allowing them to enter into alliances with each other and with foreign countries, while being fully sovereign over their own lands.
Ferdinand III of Habsburg, Holy Roman Emperor (1637-1657).
This did not, however, prevent Ferdinand III at the same time from strengthening his own power over his lands. With the exception of certain estates in Silesia, the Bohemian crown was now firmly under imperial control, counter-reform and redistribution of the looted lands to the Protestant nobility divided between the Habsburg allies and the latter.
This lukewarm end of the Twenty-five Years' War would not, however, be the end of the Habsburg reign and the epic of the Holy Roman Empire.
1) The War against the Turks and Habsburg rule in Austria (1645-1664)
In 1643 it was not yet known whether the Peace of Westphalia would be permanent or not. Added to this was the problem of the armed forces to be demobilised. Ferdinand III found it difficult to pay his troops and many mercenaries continued to plunder the countryside despite the end of the war. Ferdinand III would find a way to solve part of the problem, at least to delay it.
Since 1644 the Polish King Wladislaw IV had been trying to propose to Austria a military campaign against the Ottoman Turks [2].
In spite of Wladislaw IV's marriage to a Swedish princess , taking him away from the imperial camp, it seemed to be in Austria's interest to participate in the expedition. Austrian influence was already strong in Hungary. Stephen III Bethlen had been elected Prince of Transylvania while becoming an Austrian ally in the region [3]. The Prince became increasingly afraid of the Turks, who blamed him for his proximity to the Habsburgs, and he called for help from Austria. Moreover, the war of succession in Constantinople for the Ottoman throne weakened Turkish power in the Balkans [4]. Moscovia was also ready to intervene alongside Warsaw and Vienna despite the differences with Poland. The goal was for the Russians to obtain the Crimean Peninsula.
Finally, for Ferdinand III, the sending of the last mercenaries in the Holy Roman Empire to Hungary put an end to the exactions of idle soldiers.
The expedition began in early 1645, when the Habsburg army commanded by Leopold-Wilhelm of Austria left Pressburg to descend the Danube with its 37,000 men and 15,000 horsemen led by Pappenheim. A second army, that of Mathias Gallas was in Trieste and had to skirt the coast with its 26,000 men. The support of Venice was of great help to Vienna, enabling it to fight the rare Ottoman fleets daring to venture into the Adriatic.
The advance of Leopold-Wilehm of Austria succeeded in taking Pest but was stopped in Buda by the Ottoman resistance. Pappenheim joins him with the Prince of Transylvania before heading south to fight George Rakóczi, an Ottoman ally and pretender to the principality of Transylvania. Gallas, despite his victories against the few troops in Croatia, finds himself mired in Bosnia and is unable to approach Bosnasaray. After almost two months of siege, the city of Buda falls into the hands of the Austrian armies and is given over to looting.
Stephen III Bethlen, Prince of Transylvania.
In September 1645 on the news of the capture of Moldavia by the Polish armies, the Austro-Transylvanian army moved towards Wallachia and met the army of Rakóczi not far from Severin on the Danube. The Austrian cavalry worked wonders against the weak enemy army. This victory allowed the Austro-Polish to find themselves in Wallachia and to pay themselves on the inhabitant. But dissensions arose between the Austrians and the Poles. While Wladislaw IV planned to reinforce himself in Wallachia and then to take Constantinople, Pappenheim favoured the conquest of Rumelia. Disagreements between the various chiefs brought the army to a standstill in the winter of 1645. Finally in 1646 the choice was made to pursue Georges Rakóczi raising a new army in Rumelia in the Sofia region. In April 1646 the Austro-Polish forces met the forces of Rakóczi and the Ottomans in the town of Vratza. The battle saw many devastating cavalry charges between the two sides. Unfortunately in the middle of the battle, Pappenheim will die in a cavalry charge [5]. The Austrian army partly broke down after the arrival of an Ottoman relief force led by Islam Giray. The Poles withdrew in good order to Moldova, leaving Wallachia to the Turks.
The mistake made by Pappenheim and Stephen III of Transylvania was not to have waited for the Austrian army of Leopold-Wilehlm of Austria, which had remained blocked during the siege of Belgrade in the winter and then rescued Gallas in Bosnia.
Despite this failure to enter Rumelia and the destruction of a large part of the Austrian army, the battle was not a triumph for the Ottomans either. In the summer of 1646 an Ottoman delegation entered into contact with the Habsburgs and the Poles. Islam Giray, one of the Ottoman pretenders to the throne, proposed the surrender of Hungary and suzerainty over Transylvania and Moldavia in exchange for a withdrawal of the Vilayets from Bosnia, Serbia and the principality of Wallachia. Despite the willingness of Wladislaw IV to continue the war, Leopold-Wilhelm of Austria and Ferdinand III chose to end the conflict, forcing Poland to follow them. Peace between the Ottoman Empire and Austria was signed in the summer of 1646.
Engraving of the Battle of Vratza showing an Ottoman cavalry charge.
In spite of this last defeat, the Austrian victory in the war against the Turks had totally anchored Habsburg power on Hungarian soil. However, this campaign for a time kept Austria out of business in the Holy Roman Empire. Ferdinand III was unable to mobilise armies to prevent the French expedition to Lorraine in 1646. This impediment was as much due to the absent armies as to certain states supporting France and condemning the Emperor. This de facto satelliteisation of Lorraine was also accompanied by the creation of the pro-French Rhine League and the establishment of a favourable candidate in Paris and The Hague for the Duchy of Munster.
This retreat was also accompanied by a distance between Vienna and Madrid. On the death of Felipe IV, the Regent of Spain had not wanted a marriage between his family Maria Theresa and her cousin Ferdinand IV, son of Ferdinand III. For the Viennese Court the failure of the marriage was due to the French ancestry of the Spanish Regent, preferring to favour her nephew the young Louis XIV.
The 1650s were complicated years for Austria. Ferdinand III did not succeed in preventing the Magdeburg War between Saxony and Brandenburg despite his mediation. In addition, with the coffers empty, Austrian politics was limited abroad.
But Ferdinand III succeeded in a certain policy, he was able to postpone the constitutionality questions of the Reichstag for some time. The power and scope of the Rhine League, which was close to French interests, encouraged Ferdinand III to support Hesse. Ferdinand III concluded a marriage between the daughter of George II of Hesse, Anna-Sophia, and her son Ferdinand IV.
Ferdinand IV of Habsburg, elected Emperor in 1657.
The war between Sweden and Denmark also motivated Ferdinand III to choose a Scandinavian ally. As Sweden was close to the Netherlands and France, Austria approached the Danish King Frederick III. The latter, although closer to England than to Austria, agreed to sign a few secret treaties on the protection of the states of Lower Saxony in exchange for greater freedom for Denmark in its empire lands.
The last success for Ferdinand III was to have his son recognised on the Bohemian throne as well as the throne of Hungary and Croatia. Finally, he succeeded in convincing the princes of the Empire to recognise his heir son on the throne of the Empire in exchange for the settlement of legal questions in the Reichstag [6].
When Ferdinand III died in 1657, he left his son Ferdinand IV a firm alliance with Hesse and a cordial relationship with Denmark. However, the Empire was more than divided and war seemed imminent. The 1660s saw the Holy Roman Empire once again become a bloody battlefield for the whole of Europe.
2) The south of the Holy Roman Empire after the war (1643-1664)
The twenty-five year war in the centre of the Holy Empire was cataclysmic, the passage of numerous armies destroyed the most prosperous lands and cities. By 1643 the region had been completely overturned. Spain had been completely driven out of the region, now limited to Franche-Comté. The Palatinate, a rich and prosperous electorate was in ruins like the rest of the Rhine valley and now ruled by the Wittelsbachs of Bavaria.
The biggest surprise for the region was above all that an obscure Bohemian nobleman succeeded in ascending to the throne of the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg. Albrecht Von Wallenstein owed part of his fortune to his French support during the end of the war. But he had not only won, he had also lost his lands and his castle in Bohemia to the Habsburgs. Moreover, although he was Grand Duke of Luxembourg and Duke of Mecklenburg, the first duchy was impoverished by the war and the second was destroyed.
However, the Bohemian military man showed himself to be very talented in order to turn his estates around. Although personally Catholic, he granted great religious freedom on his lands. As for the many troops still in his service, he gradually demobilised them, and the compensation he received for his Bohemian lands was partly used to finance this policy. The many demobilised soldiers in Mecklenburg were given plots of land to enable the region to repopulate. He finally completed the last vestiges of serfdom.
Peasant family in Mecklenburg (1673).
In foreign policy Wallenstein was now a vassal of the French system. In 1646, under the impetus of Cardinal Mazarin and with the support of the bishopric princes of Trier, Mainz and Cologne, they founded the Rhine League. The latter was headed by the Grand Duke of Luxembourg and protected by the King of France. The policy of the Rhine League is to defend the member states against wandering armed bands, the establishment of a permanent army financed by the member states and the prohibition of foreign powers from entering the League's lands to attack France.
This League is nothing more and nothing less than a second frontier for France, where the Emperor's power is almost nil. The bishoprics of Liège, Westphalia and Paderborn as well as the duchies of Jülich and Berg also joined the Rhine League. The first tensions for the League arose over the Duchy of Munster. The question arose whether a Calvinist prince could rule a Catholic land. Frederic-Henri had the right of seniority, but his younger brother Charles-Louis, having converted to Catholicism, turned to Vienna to ask for the Emperor's support. The League was beginning to set itself on a war footing to counter a potential Habsburg intervention. But the war against the Turks and the Franco-Dutch support and distance discouraged the Emperor from intervening. Frederick Henry therefore became full Duke of Munster, while signing treaties guaranteeing freedom of worship for Catholics and joining the Rhine League. It was during this crisis that France took the opportunity to satellite Lorraine.
In 1649, Albrecht Wallenstein died, leaving his heir Albrecht-Carl [7] to rule his dukedoms and the League.
However, Albrecht-Carl would have to face a rival threatening the League. Hesse, too, had experienced the many ravages of war, but this was regained with the end of the war unified around Hesse-Darmstadt.
George II of Hesse-Darmstadt was the great winner of the Hessian War. The conflict had started obscurely over the question of the Hessian-Marburg legacy. While Hesse-Kassel Calvinistic had sought the support of the Protestant Union, Hesse-Darmstadt had gained the support of the imperials and the Emperor despite their Lutheran religion. After many ups and downs, Hesse-Darmstadt and the imperials finally drove the young Wilhelm VI out of Hesse-Kassel and his mother Amalia-Elisabeth, leaving George II the pleasure of reigning fully over Hesse at the end of the war.
George II of Hesse Darmstadt (1605-1661).
However, the Landgraviat took a dim view of the French expansion protected by the Rhine League and had not yet forgotten that its rivals in Kassel had been supported by France. However, he could not ignore the fact that his lands were bloodied by the war, so that conducting a conflict now would have little chance of succeeding favourably.
Like most German princes at the same time, George II sought to recover from the war. Although he disliked the Calvinists, he granted them the same rights as the Lutherans on the former lands of Hesse-Kassel. He also tried to be tolerant with the Catholics, more out of political calculations to get closer to the Emperor than out of open-mindedness.
This policy bore fruit, for in 1655 George II succeeded in marrying his eldest daughter Anna Sophia to Emperor Ferdinand IV, despite the girl's difficult conversion to Catholicism.
At the end of the 1650s, Hesse's prosperity despite the ravages of war seemed to be working wonders. The University of Marburg was once again one of the most prestigious in the region. George II even began to create a standing army for Hesse to both secure its politics and protect itself from the rival Rhine League. After the death of Georges II in 1661, the next goal for for his heir Ludwig VI was that, by becoming a loyal ally of Vienna, the Emperor would offer him the title of Duke.
But for the time being, tensions between Darmstadt and Luxembourg were rising more and more. The League's desire to integrate the principality of Nassau worried Hesse, which bordered on the principality. The death of Wilhelm-Frederick of Nassau-Dietz in 1664 could precipitate the conflict .
Bavaria is the last of the great southern powers of the Holy Roman Empire. Under Maximilian I of Bavaria the duchy had quickly won the electoral vote of their rival Palatinate as well as their lands. With the exception of the Rhine Palatinate, Bavaria had managed to protect its lands during the Twenty-Five Years' War [8]. During the Turkish War Maximilian I financed part of the Habsburg troops and even offered a small army. But when he died in 1651, his son Ferdinand Maria sought to distance himself from Vienna. There was a feeling of a form of encirclement with Hesse in the northwest and the Habsburgs in the east.
However, Ferdinand Maria did not seek to move closer to France, as he did not like the French expansion.
This neutrality made Bavaria the most prosperous of the post-war regions of the Empire. The development of agriculture as well as numerous manufactures made a large number of people rich. The marriage with Henriette Adelheid of Savoy also brought Baroque art to Bavaria and more generally to the Germanic world.
Marienplaz in Munich (1659).
It was also at this time that Bavaria took the road to Absolutism with the suspension of the Parliament by the elector of Bavaria. There was, however, a slight fear about the revolted Swiss peasants that could inspire the Bavarian peasants [9].
Bavaria saw a prosperous future, far from the storms of war that were beginning to gather on the continent. But could it still ignore them for a long time to come?
[1] OTL the occupation of the duchy of Lorraine lasted until 1661.
[2] The project of war against the Ottomans is OTL, the context is no longer OTL.
[3] OTL Etienne III Bethlen lost to Georges I Rakóczi, who succeeded in protecting the Hungarian Protestants under the Habsburgs of the Counter-Reformation. ITTL this does not happen.
[4] Not OTL, we will see the Ottoman Empire in a next chapter.
[5] OTL Pappenheim died in 1632 at the battle of Lützen.
[6] ITTL Ferdinand IV did not die of smallpox immediately after his coronation.
[7] OTL Albrecht-Carl was born prematurely in 1627 and died shortly afterwards. ITTL he was born at the beginning of 1628 in good health.
[8] OTL Bavaria also suffered a lot of damage, although still less in Hesse and the Palatinate.
[9] Not OTL. We will see this in the next chapter.
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Getting started: Happy New Year to you! I hope you will be pleased to receive my chapter on January 1st. Originally I should have talked about the whole of the Holy Roman Empire as well as Switzerland, but the length of the chapter makes me change my mind. Although I still intend to talk about the other events I have tried to keep the quality (if you see mistakes share it with me).
Many thanks to @Zygmunt Stary, @Jürgen and @alexmilman for sharing their ideas, opinions and remarks with me.
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Oh man oh man, the HRE is a truly picky spot, one is very friendly towards the French, Bavaria is doing it's own things, the Protestants have actually achieved some of their goals, overral it's just the Habsburgs holding it together and it's gonna take a able administration to secure what they have and regain the favor of the electors.
Anyways, happy new year to you too man and I hope it will be a great year for all of us and I eagerly await for the next chapter.
Anyways, happy new year to you too man and I hope it will be a great year for all of us and I eagerly await for the next chapter.
Very interesting. Just couple minor points:
Islam Giray could not be a pretender to the Ottoman throne and hardly would be allowed to conduct the diplomatic negotiations on Ottoman behalf: Giray means that he is a member of the Crimean ruling dynasty. 😛
Russian participation is unlikely. In 1641-1642 government of Mikhail refused to send help to the Cossacks who took Azov not to alienate the Ottomans. In 1645 the reign of Alexey only started and Tsardom was not in a position for starting a major war: in 1648 - 54 there was a major military reform and prior to that there were numerous problems to deal with. Attack on the Crimea was a thing of the remote future: so far Tsardom was building Belgorod fortified line. Moscow was still strictly on the defense but Tatar raid of 1645 was only a relative success and one of 1648 failed.
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The Habsburgs during this entire chapter:
Still I'm impressed at how they were able to make the best out of a very crappy situation they're in.
I'm intrigued by your future plans for Bavaria though.
This was a great chapter @Comte de Dordogne
The Empire is very divided. Even though Vienna had more power over its lands (like OTL) and had conquered Hungary much earlier, the Habsburgs found themselves having to give up land to continue to rule (legal issues were granted by Ferdinand III in exchange for the election of his son).
Otherwise the HRE is much more polarised, France is certainly much more appreciated in the Rhine League but Hesse is firmly against them and Bavaria distant.
Even if I didn't really enjoy the Pandemic and the confinement it at least allowed me to get into this chronology which is really close to my heart.
I'm starting classes again next week, hopefully I can continue to find time for you.
Yes, Islam Giray is indeed a Giray of the Crimean Khanate. But on the other hand I was not mistaken when I speak of his actions during the Austro-Turkish war.
Without spoiling you too much, let's say that quite serious things happened in Constantinople.
I did not talk about Russia in more detail during my chapter. But indeed they remained a little shy.
There have also been changes in Russia and I will talk about this in the chapter that I will devote to it when the time comes.
I like the joke!
But if you want to be accurate it's more of a give-and-take. Where Vienna moves forward, it loses elsewhere or has to give in to be able to continue. For the moment they have managed to balance their win-loss balance but not sure they will succeed all the time in this balancing act.
The twenty-five years war (compared to the thirty years war) made the big states gain more but made the smaller ones lose. Although France absorbed the Netherlands, Austria, like the Ottoman Empire, drove its opponents out of the country, had a strong ally in Hesse and Bavaria, and remained friendly and suffered less from the Ottoman War.
Bavaria ended up as a better state than OTL (thanks to the imperials having better repelled enemy invasions and an earlier end to the conflict). Politically Bavaria is much less close to France than OTL. The fault lies in a stronger French expansion in the HRE and a Bavarian presence in the Rhine Palatinate. Moreover Mazarin ITTL did not try to jeopardise the Habsburg imperial election by proposing Ferdinand Maria to the throne.
So Bavaria is going its own way, but one day it will have to choose sides, at the risk of not being helped by anyone in a crisis.
Here is the question which I forgot to ask earlier:
You have Hesse as practically the equal military opponent of the "Rhine League" (Trier, Mainz, Cologne, Luxemburg, Mecklenburg, Munster) backed up by France, Sweden, Brandenburg, Saxony and the Netherlands. How much in the terms of the military resources Hesse could realistically posses and how bold could it become knowing that the Hapsburg help is not something it can rely upon?
In OTL Hesse-Darmstadt was mostly using a general mess to gain territory from Hesse-Cassel (which took side that was losing at that time) but otherwise it does not look that it possessed anything that could be defined as a serious military power (most of the relevant fighting had been done by the imperial forces). The same goes for Hesse-Cassel which was able to achieve some success only when backed up by the French and/or Swedish troops. So even the unified Hesse does not look as a potential candidate to the big military powers or even an independent regional player unless the League is left completely on its own, which is rather unlikely in your TL (it is being a "second border" for France and more or less guarantor of the security for the Swedish possessions in the region). Firm pro-imperial position is simply going to make it the most obvious target in the next anti-Hapsburg war.
As for a precise number I would have had difficulty in providing you with it, I do not have the demographic data of Hesse to be able to tell you its population and number of troops.
Moreover, the Hessian War, which turned in favour of Darmstadt as early as the mid-1630s, prevented a lot of destruction (and thus allowed for a better recovery).
If I had to compare the militarisation of Hesse with the militarisation of Prussia under Frederick William (in all proportion and success, of course), a state with a much larger army than before.
On the other hand, as far as political audacity is concerned, it lacks it for the moment. The fault lies with military allies of weight. Apart from the Prince Bishop of Würzburg, the Margraviate of Württemberg and the States of Baden, nobody is really close to Hesse... At least in the south of the Holy Roman Empire.
As far as the northern states of the Holy Roman Empire are concerned, there will also be changes, I would come back to the "Magdeburg War" at that time.
What do you mean by "General Mess"?
Otherwise, as I said earlier, Hesse is unified, has avoided certain destruction and has leaders who are exhilarated by their victory and have a certain political will to become a significant power.
Not to the point of defeating the Rhine League, but enough to stand up to it violently.
But yes, militarism will not be enough for Hesse to win. And indeed, being pro-Habsburg could be a problem for Hesse if it succeeds in France and the Rhine.
(It seemed to me that Hesse-Kassel was renowned for its mercenaries. Am I mistaken?)