The Sun Never Sets on the American Nation

The American Revolution December 1775 through January 1777

From America at War, By LTG Andy Matane USMC Ret., Smith House Publishing, Chicago, IL, 2009

-The death that most shaped the American Revolution is not Benedict Arnold at the Battle of Oriskany. An important death no doubt, but the one that most shaped the American Revolution was the death of Major General Guy Carleton during the retreat from Montreal. If Carleton had lived he most likely would have defeated Major General Montgomery at the First Battle of Quebec[1775].

-On the night of December 31 1775, Colonial Forces under Montgomery, Arnold, Morgan, and Livingston assault Quebec City. Even though Allan Maclean of Torloisk out number American forces taking part in the battle with 600 more troops it wasn’t enough to overcome the bold leadership of Montgomery and Arnold. Between their two wings they were able to force the surrender of Maclean bagging 700 other prisoners in the First Battle of Quebec.

-The loss of Quebec was a nasty shock to the British Empire. Questions were raised in Parliament how Quebec. Lt General Charles Cornwallis would famously say, “Quebec fail to farmers with pitchforks.” This statement would turn out to ironic given later course of events.

-Following the loss of Quebec and before the new campaign season in 1776, General William Howe set his plan to bring the colonies to heel about. General Burgoyne would lead a column based out Halifax to retake Quebec and lead to the Second Battle of Quebec. Howe himself would lead the bulk of the British Army in campaign to take New York City.

-Howe wasn’t the only one making plans in the winter of 1775/6. General Washington was setting up plans for the defense of New York, after the British withdrew following the Fortification of the Dorchester Heights in Match 1776. But defense wasn’t the only thing on Washington’s mind this winter. After meeting Jonathan Eddy of the British Maritime Colonies, he detail Eddy with one of the heroes of Quebec, General Arnold to help take Fort Cumberland.

-Neither General Howe nor General Washington’s plans would work out as they had hoped. The mix outcomes of the battles of 1776 though would play a role in France entering the American Revolution on the side of the Americans of January 1777.

-The First battle of 1776 was the Battle of Fort Cumberland. Arnold used the same tactics at First Quebec to help take Fort Cumberland. Arnold and Eddy used a night attack to get into the fort before the defenders knew what was happening. By the morning of May 4 1776 the Untied Colonies flag flew from Fort Cumberland.

-Elsewhere in the Northern Theater of the war, General Burgoyne would launch his campaign for what would become the Second Battle of Quebec[1776]. This campaign in general would be marked by General Burgoyne’s slow movements and off the wall tactics of General Montgomery which kept Burgoyne on his toes.

-The Second Battle of Quebec marked the first use of practical naval mines in history. Like the American Turtle they were invented by David Bushnell. But unlike the Turtle which almost cost Mr. Bushnell his life, the mines on the St. Lawrence River would account for four damage ships including a frigate. It would have to wait till the Canadian War of the 1820s before naval mines had the power to sink a ship.

-In December of 1776 with time running short, and after one of his transports was damaged by a mine did General Burgoyne launched his third and final major push in the Second Battle of Quebec to take the city back from the Americans. It came close to working, but Burgoyne refused to commit his reserves when there was a breech in the American lines before that breech was closed by General Montgomery throwing his reserves to seal the breech. After this fail attempt to retake Quebec, Burgoyne withdrew to Halifax to rest and resupply for what would become the Third Battle of Quebec.

The American Nation, Dr. Louis Thomas, Amber Publishing House, Halifax, 2013

-With the fall of both Quebec and Fort Cumberland it prompted both Quebec and Nova Scotia to send teams to Philadelphia to see if it would be possible to work out an agreement with the other 13 colonies that were in rebellion against the British Empire.

-By the time both teams reached Philadelphia, the Declaration of Independence had already been written and signed on July 4 1776. The reactions of the new Canadian teams to the Declaration of Independence couldn’t have been more different.

-The Nova Scotia team headed by Richard John Uniacke looked at the Declaration of Independence and saw nothing wrong with it and signed it on September 4 1776, two months after the other 13 colonies had signed off on it.

-For the Quebecois Team headed by Joseph Papineau, the Father of Quebec Republic looked at the Declaration of Independence and found it to intolerable because of the parts about the Quebec Act. Papineau and the other Quebecois demanded these lines be removed from the Declaration of Independence before they would sign off on it. The Mid-Atlantic Colonies led the way in refusing to give into these demands. After three months of meetings between August and October the leaders of the new American nation and Quebec tried to work out an agreement that would allow Quebec to join the other colonies. But neither side would be able to find come ground, and at the end of October 1776, Papineau and his team left Philadelphia never to return.

-Some had thought of the Quebecois Team leaving Philadelphia to be the birth of the Republic of Quebec. But I disagree. At the time it was by no means guaranteed that the Americans would hold Quebec through another siege, because they almost lost the Second Battle of Quebec. But what this walk did give birth to is the hate and mistrust between what would become the United States of America and the Republic of Quebec and help led to the three wars the US would fight with her over the next 60 years.
 
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Yesssss an alt-American Revolution that has Quebec charting its own course, as opposed to being shoehorned as the 14th colony. I am still highly skeptical that the WASP gentry of the Founding Fathers would be cool letting Catholic Frenchies into their new club.

"République du Québec" sounds ahistorical, though. This is a bit before the era of "Republic of." I suppose Quebec Republic would be fine, though.

And is this Joseph Papineau a fictional person, rather than the historical figures bearing his name who existed in the 19th century?
 
Yesssss an alt-American Revolution that has Quebec charting its own course, as opposed to being shoehorned as the 14th colony. I am still highly skeptical that the WASP gentry of the Founding Fathers would be cool letting Catholic Frenchies into their new club.

"République du Québec" sounds ahistorical, though. This is a bit before the era of "Republic of." I suppose Quebec Republic would be fine, though.

And is this Joseph Papineau a fictional person, rather than the historical figures bearing his name who existed in the 19th century?
Well I decided that they would allowed it to get on to good terms with France. I figure they would never removed the parts about Quebec Act in the Declaration of Independence, which in turn would cause Quebec to walk away from the new United States.

As to the name of the Republic of Quebec, I can't read or write in French. For something like that I'm not that big of fan of using Google Translate.

Finally Joseph Papineau is the historical person of the early 19th century. He would been young being about 24 at the time, but I was up against the wall in finding someone older to lead the Quebec Team. If someone has someone better for that role, I'm all ears.
 
I thought I would get more feed back on an alt-American Revolution in which Quebec Falls, but doesn't join the colonies.
 
What if the revolutionaries in the Spanish colonies also advocated joining the US after it proves its multiculturalism after Quebec and Florida?
 
I want to see more. There is the very minor historical precedent of the Vermont Republic existing separately from the United States. In this timeline we have the very much larger, further, and culturally different Quebec existing as well. It should make the dynamics of the U.S. different, to have the Pope's hat hanging out up there.
 
The American Revolution January 1777-January 1779
From America at War, By LTG Andy Matane USMC Ret., Smith House Publishing, Chicago, IL, 2009

-With the news coming in to France about the British fortunes in the New World, the French decided to cash in on the misfortunate of the British. This would be one of the few bright spots in the year of 1777 for the American nation.

-General Howe in New York City in the winter of 1776/7 was working on his plans for the war for the campaign season of 1777. He decided on a three prong attack. Once again he would lead the bulk of the army in a campaign against Philadelphia. Burgoyne would lead a larger force against General Montgomery in Quebec. Finally making use of their Iroquois allies under Chief Joseph Brant, would launch a column that would raise hell in the American rear and hopefully draw American troops from the defense of both Philadelphia and Quebec.

-General Washington’s plans was totally defensive in nature for the campaign season of 1777. The New York Campaign taught Washington a number of painful lessons. The first was his army couldn’t fight in opening field battles like the standard was at the time in Europe. He took steps to right this issue with Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben who started training the Continental Army after Washington’s victories Trenton and Princeton.

-The work of von Steuben at Morristown in the winter of 1776/7 cannot be understated in its important to the American victory in this war. Even though losses at the Brandywine and Germantown made some question the value of von Steuben at the time, one needed to understand that it takes time to become an able fighting man or woman. Von Steuben was working with nothing and in the span of two years help laid the ground work for the greatest army the world has ever seen. It was only when the Washington set up camp in Valley Forge for the winter of 1777/8 did the work of von Steuben really start to show itself.

-The first of the three prongs of General Howe’s plan led to the Battle of Oriskany. Following the victory at Fort Cumberland, General Arnold was posted to command Fort Stanwix. This was due to disagreements with Philip Schuyler, Horatio Gates, and others on the conduct of the war and other issues. This was to get Arnold out of the limelight and to sideline him. But this posting, through his last would affect the war in general.

-The Battle of Oriskany started by mistake as General Arnold was leading a scouting party to look for signs of the Iroquois who were allied with the British. This scouting party number only 80 men including Arnold himself when it ran into the 800 men under Chief Joseph Brant. This chance meeting would spark the Battle of Oriskany.

-General Arnold was killed early in the battle with the Iroquois. General of the Militia in the area Nicholas Herkimer would report after the battle that Arnold’s last words were, “Kill those sons of bitches.” But it should be noted that Herkimer wasn’t a member of the scouting party and no one was able to confirm this, so it must be taken with a grain of salt.

-Following the chance meeting between Native American and American forces started a running battle as the Americans fell back to Fort Stanwix. Then the Iroquois tried to lay siege to Fort Stanwix soon after. But an American sharpshooter found the heart of Chief Joseph Brant soon after this started. This demoralizes the Iroquois, and the Americans there were in raged by the death of General Arnold. The Americans sense the Iroquois heart was no longer in this battle and launched a massive assault two days later to break the siege of the Fort Stanwix. It worked. This allowed the forces between Washington and Montgomery to keep open lines of communication which would prove to be important in the Third Battle of Quebec [1777/8].

-For the Third Battle of Quebec, General Burgoyne brought a far better siege train this time. Like in the Second Battle for Quebec the year before Burgoyne was willing to wait. But unlike the year before he made sure to keep his supply lines open which took up about a quarter of his total troop strength, but the Americans were not able to gain the moral building victories of the year before.

-Part way through the Third Battle of Quebec, General Montgomery sent a message to General Washington asking for reinforcements. It also stated without reinforcements he doubted he could hold Quebec till the pause of the winter months. Washington who was wheeling from his own defeats at the Brandywine and Germantown didn’t have much in the way of reinforcements to send Montgomery. But Washington also knew if Quebec fell to the British that would open the door to the foothold the Americans had in the Maritimes, and possibly even threaten upstate New York. Between a rock and a hard place Washington detached a single regiment from his army. This regiment was under the command of Colonel Anthony Wayne. Better known as Mad Anthony, a sobriquet he would more than live up to in what would be coming known as Wayne’s March.

-Wayne’s March in 1777 is still study today at WestPoint as a guide to effective combat leadership and getting to point A to B quickly. Wayne commanded his regiment as a flying column. When he and his regiment reached Quebec in January 1778 he arrived at a critical moment in the Third Battle of Quebec and was able to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

-By January 1778, General Montgomery had his back up against the wall. Supplies were running low and he was out of reserve troops. If General Burgoyne created another breech he would be unable to plug the hole this time and Quebec would had folded.

-But on January 14 1777 such a breech happen, just a Wayne and his regiment reached the Plains of Abraham. Wayne seeing the state of affairs knew time was against him. He launched a bold and would later be called foolish. But he would launch his assault straight into the British right. Just as Burgoyne had his breech, he came under pressure from Wayne on the right. Just as he was about to give his orders a sniper’s bullet would cut Burgoyne down. With no clear cut commander in the British things quickly feel apart. Montgomery would rally his troops and launch a counter attack. This would bring an end to the Third Battle of Quebec and send the British forces into a retreat.

-Third Quebec was the bloodiest battle of the American Revolution leaving Burgoyne dead and Montgomery wounded. Another 3,000 men on both sides lay dead. But it would leave Quebec in American hands for the rest of the war. But Third Quebec wouldn’t be the last time American blood was split over that city. Just in future wars Americans would be the ones attacking, not defending.

-The big surprise of the year came in March 1778, when Admiral John Paul Jones landed on and took the island of Bermuda. The British made a halfhearted attempt to retake Bermuda in August that year, but was driven back by Jones’ rag tag fleet and costal defenses. When the French reinforced Bermuda with a naval squadron in September that year it all but made sure Bermuda would stay in American hands.

-Back in Philadelphia things were not going good for Howe. The Spanish had entered the war in the winter of 1777/8. News of Third Quebec was also coming in and it was not what Howe had hoped for. With orders coming in from London to detach troops to defend Caribbean positions, Howe knew things had turned from an offensive to a defense war against the Americans. He decided to abandon Philadelphia and retreat to New York. He also ordered General Clinton, who replaced Burgoyne to defend Halifax. He didn’t think trying to take Quebec for a third time would work, even if he, he didn’t have the troops to go around. His move to retreat to New York would lead to the battle that would turn the course of the war north of the Mason-Dixon Line, Monmouth.

-The Battle of Monmouth would be one of the bloodiest battles in the whole of the American Revolution, second only to Third Quebec.

-On the morning of the 27th of June General Washington, with his supporting Generals, Greene and Lafayette launched an assault against the retreating British at Monmouth. As the Americans starting to gain ground against the British, Howe sent the elite Black Watch and Coldstream Guards regiments to stop the Americans.

-First the first time in history American soldiers launched a bayonet charge as the elite of British Army came up to stop them. It was heavy hand to hand fighting between the British and Americans for well over an hour, before the British broke off and retreated.

-The Hand to Hand fighting also took its toll on the Americans, and Washington decided not to give further chase that day. But the damage to Howe’s Army has been down. Both the Black Watch and Coldstream Guards Regiments were a shell of their former selves. Washington also took badly needed supplies from the British in their rush to retreat.

-Following their defeat at Monmouth, the British would never again take to the offensive in the Mid-Atlantic, New England, or Maritime areas.

-By the end of 1778 two more important events would happen. First was the fall of Savannah to the British. The second was the fall of Nassau to a joint American-Spanish Squadron. Both of these events would play a role in the future of the war and the peace treaty that would end it.
 
Looking Good so far.

Good job Jim, you might think about throwing Washington a few more curve balls to keep everything for breaking the Patriot's way...;) After all we would not want some August Member's of the Board decrying...Ameriwank! Ameriwank! :D
 
Good job Jim, you might think about throwing Washington a few more curve balls to keep everything for breaking the Patriot's way...;) After all we would not want some August Member's of the Board decrying...Ameriwank! Ameriwank! :D
Well look at the title, do you honestly believe this is going to be anything but an Ameriwank?

But as to screwballs the Battle of Camden is coming.
 
Good to see JPJ kicking ass again. Does he pull off a successful Whitehaven raid in this timeline? Does it become the insane equivalent of Pearl Harbor happening on the American mainland?

Here's an informative thread with links about the British colonies that didn't end up joining the U.S., but might have. It seems like other Caribbean islands might have been inclined to jump aboard, particularly if British naval assets were pulled back to defend the Home Isles in response to Whitehaven.

As for Quebec, what are the Quebecois doing all of this? The same thing they did in our history (stew sullenly while affirming a sort of neutrality), except with the Americans running the show instead of the Brits?
 
As for Quebec will show up again in the Treaty of Paris.

Edit: I plan to take it up to modern day or ITL verison of WW2. Not sure yet.
 
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For the DoI, I wonder that after a Patriot victory in Quebec, would the words describing the Quebec Act be left out in the list of grievances in order not to offend Quebec. Similar to the way that slavery was omitted from the list of grievances in order not to offend the southern colonies and to ensure that they signed the document.

Franklin would have leaned on Jefferson to omit the Quebec Act reference.

With this, the Quebec representatives would likely have signed the document.

But for argument sakes, this is a good timeline, will have to see why the Americans and the peaceful Quebecois lock horns three times is sixty years? It will also be interesting to see what you do with the United Empire Loyalists? Maybe they go to Ontario and the Maritimes like IOTL. Hopefully they do not settle in the horn of Africa and create Draka!!!!
 

katchen

Banned
If the US settles Canada, Siberia, Patagonia and Antarctica's Palmer Peninsula, the sun will never set on the American Empire. And the TL will not be an Americawank since all these areas would have relatively low populations.:D:D:D
 
If the US settles Canada, Siberia, Patagonia and Antarctica's Palmer Peninsula, the sun will never set on the American Empire. And the TL will not be an Americawank since all these areas would have relatively low populations.:D:D:D

Ah but you forget in the long run those areas have a shit ton of natural resources!!!! When the globs tempt starts heating up the yanks get more land:D
 

katchen

Banned
What everyone who isn't an American tends to forget is that Americans are easily scared off from annexing areas with large populations of non-English speakers and ESPECIALLY NON-WHITES. This would not be the case with almost empty areas such as Siberia or Canada or in the early 19th Century, Patagonia and Tierra Del Fuego. Or Antarctica. Or, I suppose, Greenland or even in the 19th Century, Iceland. Taking Mongolia and Manchuria from China while it is still unsettled might suit a US that say, had gotten Siberia around the Crimean War assuming Russia sold it to the US to keep it out of the UK's clutches. Maybe even Kazakhstan.
But the US has a history of saying no to annexing places with a settled history of non-whites IOTL. The US refused to annex the Philippines despite the Philippines having a population of only 7 million in 1900 IOTL. As the Senate refused to ratify annexation of the Dominican Republic in 7 million in the 1850s and 60s. Or Cuba in 1898. Or statehood for Puerto Rico even now IOTL. Or Mexico with only 7 million in 1848 when the white elite of Mexico wanted annexation to the US and only the white 1.4 million in Mexico would have been permitted to vote in the event of annexation anyway at that time. But John C. Calhoun fulminated against annexation of Mexico davidduke.com/john-c-calhoun-vetoes-annexation-of-mexico saying that it had too many non-whites (meaning too many non-whites who were not slaves:().
So the US would likely not have annexed Concepcion or Valdivia in Chile or all of Chile if it annexed Patagonia. Or Buenos Aires and the Republic of La Plata. Or Llaoning if the US annexed part of Manchuria or Hohehot if the US annexed part of Mongolia or Kansu or probably not Kokand, Samarkand, Balkh, Baiman or Herat in Central Asia. Then again, drawn by the mineral wealth of Afghanistan and Tibet, the US might.
 
Well as to my plans to get it were the sun never sets on the American Nation is going to be a fun one.

Also there will be changes a long the way that will make the US more open to annexation areas with non-white WASPs.
 
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