The Sudeten War: History of the World after an Alternate 1938
- Thread starter Onkel Willie
- Start date
Which is the point. They had been around long enough, for Canada in 1867, and New Zealand in 1907 to move from Colony to Dominion, as local development increased.
Only later did some Dominions go the next step into full, independent Republics, while the above Dominions, stayed Dominions.
That's also the point of the OP: without said local development, colonies are dependent on their masters.
I have doubt of colonial power extending that to non European population ? It would go against the mindset of the time
Absolutely. No WWII means an intact Europe, and that means the White Man's Burden continues.
South Africa went to Dominion status in 1910. No war, I believe that trend would continue across the British Colonies in Africa, probably Egypt next, before 1920
The point is that in those cases the whites had such a big technology advantage while the original population never had a large enough population advantage to make up for it.
So the „solution“ was actually genocide and then building up a country with white people.
Luckily that was not a feasible model in India or Africa. America (the whole continent) was desaster enough.
So the „solution“ was actually genocide and then building up a country with white people.
Luckily that was not a feasible model in India or Africa. America (the whole continent) was desaster enough.
Proto-apartheid South Africa went to Dominion status. Brown people don't get the same privilege, even in the Forties.
Last edited:
eriel_ramos
Donor
It's the difference between Hawaii and Puerto Rico.
In Hawaii, White settlers from the USA physically replaced the original inhabitants, so granting the "territory" equality meant that the "right people" were in charge, and the "natives" were seen as quaint and folkloric. Typically refered to as "settler colonialism".
In Puerto Rico, there was no movement to bring Anglo settlers since the Island was overpopulated and had a developed culture. Instead, political and economic power was kept in the hands of USA expatriates, like a modern version of "plantation colonialism".
For Hawaii, read the Dominions, and for Puerto Rico read India
And even Hawaii had problems - fears on the mainland of having a senator named "Moto" almost kept it away from statehood.
Each State that made up the Dominion at that time, were responsible for setting those privileges/rights, so it starts there.
Having the UK set those, would have been seen as Imperial overreach at the time.
With no WW in this timeline, things won't shake out the same way with the Boers, Indians, Coloreds, and Blacks.
Except PR had more than one opportunity for Statehood, and never voted in favor of it.
Anyways, how do you think does this war affect Japanese foreign policy going forward, changing subjects of discussion?
That depends. While the leadership were...well, kind of insane, there was some recognition that they had to choose their moment. Hence why they waited until France went down and Britain was up to its elbows dealing with Hitler before deciding on 'Go South' as a policy.
Here...there can't be any rhetoric about how Japan 'can't miss the bus' because the bus never even left, if you see what I mean
Ultimately it depends on what @Onkel Willie decides, but it's entirely likely IMO that Japan continues the fight in China for a while, try to get enough of a victory that they can ensure a face-saving peace, and then lick their wounds for a while.That depends. While the leadership were...well, kind of insane, there was some recognition that they had to choose their moment. Hence why they waited until France went down and Britain was up to its elbows dealing with Hitler before deciding on 'Go South' as a policy.
Here...there can't be any rhetoric about how Japan 'can't miss the bus' because the bus never even left, if you see what I mean
Remember, America and a lot of places did not recognize Japan's conquests. Not just for their brutality, but as early as the 1930s, America had a doctrine of not recognizing territorial gains of aggressions.
I think it might inevitable that America cuts off Japan's oil out of sheer disgust at Japan's actions.
Just because they wanted the entire nation to fight to the death and they tried to overthrow their godking because he said "let's stop" doesn't mean they're insane
(extreme /s)
Japan still wants itself to be seen as a great power; a Sudeten war won't change that. The Go South was a gamble to make that happen. Though I would agree with both @Bookmark1995 and @theg*ddam*hoi2fan - Japan will still want an empire by force but will wait until the time is right or they feel they have no choice (oil embargo).
Realistically, I see Japan to continue investing in China because they've been given a "free hand" [Read they havent been dis-incentivised enough] there, while keeping their eyes on both the North and South options, going to jump on whichever is "more perfect".
This assumes that America ends up staying in blissful isolation, China doesn't get unexpected support for whatever reason(s), and Japan's still able to be at their OTL rate of being bogged down as they try going inland. I imagine they're going to be trying to reign in any potential incidents as the West and such are more liable to act on those after the Sudeten war, in my mind.
This assumes that America ends up staying in blissful isolation, China doesn't get unexpected support for whatever reason(s), and Japan's still able to be at their OTL rate of being bogged down as they try going inland. I imagine they're going to be trying to reign in any potential incidents as the West and such are more liable to act on those after the Sudeten war, in my mind.
Given that that a few of their leaders have essentially boiled down their options to "victory" or "non-existence on a concept of a people level..."
On one hand, I can see them being far more tempted with the "Strike North" strategy this go around, if they have some modicum of self-preservation. Especially given that now the gaze has turned to Stalin and the Soviet Union.
On the other hand, even though Japan wants itself to be seen as a great power in respect to the European powers, I'm guessing general "yellow fever" means that is just not going to happen, and if self-preservation goes by the wayside, expect it to end in the same fashion as OTL.