The Succession Crisis (UK, 1901)

What if all sons of Queen Victoria died young? In this scenario her heir would be her oldest daughter and then her children. So Empress Frederick, so she was known after her husband's death in 1888, would become Queen Victoria II and after her death her son Emperor William II would become King William V uniting the United Kingdom and the German Empire under one crown. That would surely create a succession crisis in the UK, because no one in the UK would want a personal union between the United Kingdom and the German Empire.
 
Victoria l'empress didn't marry Frederick until the late 1850s. Victoria, Queen, had her last son in the early 1850s. If, by that point male succession is looking unlikely, and the possibility of it falling on Victoria l'empress is real, her marriage simply won't go ahead.

You could avoid this by waiting until she's married then killing off the sons of course. Highly unlikely, but not impossible. In which case Parliament and the royal family can see what's coming as plainly as anyone else, and has decades to resolve this. I'd guess they'd settle it either on one of Victoria l'empress' sisters, or if the problem arises later on, one of Victoria l'empress' younger sons would be sent over to Britain and educated as a British prince in preperation for becoming King.
 
When you say die young, you really need to be more specific.


Obviously if all of Victoria’s sons die before 1857, then Princess Victoria is not going to become engaged to the son of the Prussian Crown Prince. She will marry a minor German prince who will move to England and it is probable her sister Alice marries the future King of Prussia instead.


The Prince of Wales married in 1863 and his first child was born in 1865, therefore there is a relatively short period for all of Victoria’s sons to die before a grandchild via her son is born.

Assuming that all 4 of Victoria’s sons die in 1861 of the typhoid that killed the Prince Consort (quite possible, look at Portugal), and then the already married Crown Princess Frederick of Prussia becomes heiress presumptive to the British throne. It would require an Act of Parliament to deprive the Prussian Crown Princess of her rights; it is unlikely in my view that Queen Victoria would support such an Act. I suspect the Prussian government would also oppose it unless some very major concession was made perhaps some British imperial territory i.e. Canada, Australia etc. Either way Britain is going to be in hock to Prussia.

It changes British and global history, for a start it is perhaps unlikely that the German Empire will ever be created, the Prussians will welcome any union as they will perceive it as Prussia taking over Britain by the backdoor. Prussia may decide to focus its attention away from conflict with Denmark, Austria, France and Russia to bring about creation of the German Empire and instead focus on improving relations with Britain to prepare for what they perceive as Prussian absorption of the British empire.

It is important to stress at this stage that anti German feeling is not strong in Britain, Prussia is Britain's natural ally on the continent, that is why the marriage of Fritz and Vicky is popular and has effectivly been agreed by their respective parents since Vicky was born.

Assuming Crown Princess Frederick is transformed into heiress presumptive to the British throne by the tragic deaths of her brothers and father in December 1861, under such circumstances Bismarck’s power is considerably reduced in the years that follow, if he even achieves power at all.

He managed to reduce Frederick and Victoria to mere ciphers in Prussian politics but if Victoria is heiress to Britain, she becomes hugely more important to the Prussians, alienating her is not going to benefit Prussia and is not going to benefit Bismarck.


Frederick and Victoria’s aim to liberalise Prussia which was prevented by Bismarck comes to pass and a union of Britain and Prussia proves to be a hugely successful union, it establishes greater peace in Europe as it allies the continent’s strongest army with the world’s strongest navy. There is the possibility of a great war between Britain/Prussia and France and Russia and the French and Russians are roundly defeated. France becomes a vassal state with the British controlling France’s maritime endeavours and Prussia manning its boards and Prussia extends into European Russia.
 
When you say die young, you really need to be more specific.

Obviously if all of Victoria’s sons die before 1857, then Princess Victoria is not going to become engaged to the son of the Prussian Crown Prince. She will marry a minor German prince who will move to England and it is probable her sister Alice marries the future King of Prussia instead.
They have to die after 1858 but before they would have married IOTL.
 
Assuming that they died in 1859, I think the most obvious solution to the situation would be that Victoria and Albert would try and conceive again.
Her most recent pregnancy was in 1857, after Princess Beatrice was born she was apparently told that she should not have any more children, to which the Queen is alleged to have enquired whether it meant she could not have any more “fun”.
I think if all her sons died between 1858 and 1861, I think Victoria might feel compelled to ignore her doctor's advice and have more “fun”, for England’s sake. With 4 sons and 5 daughters, it seems to me there was every chance Victoria could have produced a further son in 1860 or 1861.
Obviously after 1861 it becomes an impossiblity and I revert back to my original position that Vicky becomes heiress to the throne.
 
The best way to assure that Vicky will become Queen of the United Kigdom is, that her brothers die after 1861, so that Queen Victoria does not try to conceive more children, and before they would have married IOTL.
A Timeline of Heirs to the Crown of the United Kigdom:
1841-1864 Albert Edward (killed in a hunting mishap)
1864-1868 Alfred (assassinated by Irish national Henry James O'Farrell)
1868-1870 Arthur William (killed in the Red River Rebellion)
1870-1901 Victoria (becomes Queen Victoria II in 1901 but dies months later)

Leopold Georg had haemophilia so it is quite possible that he died very young.
 
Unrealistic...

My theory is the four sons of Victoria have to die together (i.e. the typhoid that killed their father spreads through the Royal Family) for it to be even reasonably realistic.

If Albert Edward dies in 1864, he will have already been married to Alix of Denmark for one year. She could be pregnant.

Upon his death and Alix not being pregnant, Alfred becomes heir, he did not marry until 1874, however such a delay would not have been permitted had his brother not died. He would have been rushed down the aisle ASAP. Assuming he too dies before he can produce a child....

The third son Arthur is wrapped in cotton wool so tightly he isn't allowed out of his mother's apartments, he's certainly not going to be allowed anywhere near Canada. He's going to be married off and ordered to breed like a maniac.
 
Obviously after 1861 it becomes an impossiblity and I revert back to my original position that Vicky becomes heiress to the throne.
Not necessarily, as Victoria could marry again. Despite her love for Albert, this was still the time when marriage was about politics.

However the consequences for European politics would be quite severe. Even though Britain is a constitutional monarchy already, it would be seen as a union of Britain and Prussia, two of the strongest powers of Europe, and thereby disrupting the carefully maintained balance of powers. And two of them fought Prussia OTL, and France did because they didn't want a distant relative of the King on a comparatively minor throne! :eek:

So I guess, Europe will see a war sooner or later with Britain and Prussia on one side and France, Austria and Russia on the other. The interesting question is, who would win this war, and whom would the minor powers side with?

Barbarossa, this is an exceptionally interesting POD!
 
And two of them fought Prussia OTL, and France did because they didn't want a distant relative of the King on a comparatively minor throne!
That's not entirely true. France started the war because they thought that they have been insulted by the Prussian king.
Barbarossa, this is an exceptionally interesting POD!
Thank you!

This PoD will always lead to a war between UK and Prussia on one side and France and Russia on the other. France fears that Prussia gets to strong and Russia would have similiar fears.

Is a German unification possible? I really do not know.
 
Not necessarily, as Victoria could marry again. Despite her love for Albert, this was still the time when marriage was about politics.

However the consequences for European politics would be quite severe. Even though Britain is a constitutional monarchy already, it would be seen as a union of Britain and Prussia, two of the strongest powers of Europe, and thereby disrupting the carefully maintained balance of powers. And two of them fought Prussia OTL, and France did because they didn't want a distant relative of the King on a comparatively minor throne! :eek:

So I guess, Europe will see a war sooner or later with Britain and Prussia on one side and France, Austria and Russia on the other. The interesting question is, who would win this war, and whom would the minor powers side with?

Barbarossa, this is an exceptionally interesting POD!

Really you think Victoria would have remarried? If you consider even the most basic biography of Queen Victoria, her life certainly for the whole of the remainder of the 1860s was effectively tied to her wanting to die and join Albert. Policy or not, many of Victoria’s politicians actively schemed against her in the 1860s in the hope she would abdicate as some even became convinced that she was suffering the kind of madness experienced by her grandfather King George III.
Hypothetically speaking, even if it were possible, her remarrying would have not necessarily resulted in children. She was 40 in 1858, therefore she 43 when Albert died. Allowing the minimum of 2 years before it would have been socially acceptable for Victoria to even considering remarriage, she is 45!
That said I do not accept for even one second there was any chance of Victoria remarrying after Albert died. It’s one of the few certainties in history. She spent the 40 years after his name worshipping his memory absolutely.
I agree it’s a fascinating what if scenario if Vicky was heiress, I don’t see how it could not result in a UK-Prussian dominance of Europe, however I don’t think we should see that as a bad thing. Britain was the more democratic of the great powers and it could have a positive influence on the dictatorship empires of Russian and Napoleon III’s France. I think we would have seen a more liberal Prussia, which was the exact aim of the marriage of Vicky and Fritz.
I don’t see the Austrians siding with the French and the Russians, at the end of the day the Russians and Austrians are always going to be in conflict over the Balkans, it is in Austria’s interest to allow the British-Prussian Empire to destroy France, effectively sideling Russia in Europe and allowing Austria to have free rein in the Balkans.
The combination of Europe’s best army together with the world’s best navy will mean the British-Prussian Empire will reach heights that even the British Empire could not reach.
 
That's not entirely true. France started the war because they thought that they have been insulted by the Prussian king.
You mean the Emser Depesche. That was more about Bismarck making the sure, the French would never accept Napoleon backing off from war at the last second. But as with any respectable war, while the actual causes for the war were deeper and more complex, going back for several years

This PoD will always lead to a war between UK and Prussia on one side and France and Russia on the other.
Yes, probably not immediately, but inevitably.

Is a German unification possible? I really do not know.
If Britain and Prussia win this war, which I think they would, they would be in a position to bring about German unification. As its unlikely that Hanover (which due to Salic law was already separate from the UK) in this scenario would have sided with Prussia's enemy, it would continue to exists, thereby leaving Prussia with a weaker internal position in Germany.

BTW, let's take a look who the monarchs of Britain-Prussia would have been (always assuming that this doesn't butterfly any different births or death dates):

1901-1941: William V & II
1941-1951: William VI & III (OTL Crown Prince Wilhelm)

Now it becomes interesting. The OTL Crown Prince's original heir, Prince Wilhelm, in 1933 married Dorothea von Salviati. Because his grandfather, the former Emperor who was still alive then, disapproved of marriage with a minor noble, he was removed from the line of succession. This could have resulted in another succession crisis, but there are several things to consider:

1. Would Prince Wilhelm (the grandson; I know it gets confusing if everyone has the same name) would have gone through with the marriage if the throne he was due to inherit still existed?
2. While the permission of the King-Emperor would have been necessary in Britain as well, unlike for Germany he can act there only on advice of the Prime Minister. What would the then prime minister of Britain have done? The case of Edward and Wallis Simpson might provide some insight, but unlike Miss Simpson Dorothea von Salviati would have been perfectly eligible as a wife of a British monarch, because Britain didn't have the same strict rules about Ebenbürtigkeit as Germany. Or could HM government have readily accepted the Chance to separate the thrones once again, because sharing a monarch with Germany would be seen as an anachronism then? Remember, a Germano-British alliance means those two countries don't fight each other in a World War, so Anti-Germanism wouldn't be very popular.

If he is not excluded from the succession, the situation becomes even more cloudy, because OTL he died during the invasion of France while serving in the Wehrmacht, which invasion would of course not happen ITL. So let's just assume he still dies at the same time because of a “alternate grandfather bullet” appearing out of nowhere.

Then we would get:
1951-2009: Queen Felicitas.

Quite a coincidence, I must say, that Britain will still have a queen reigning over more than the second half of the 20th century. Her accession would also mean the end of the personal union between Germany and the UK, as Germany followed Salic law which did not allow women to inherit. And if we further assume, that she still would have married Dinnies Karl Friedrich von der Osten (in 1958, times were changing and she was Queen already and able to decide herself, so no acceptance problem. Though I can't imaging her divorcing him as in OTL, if she was Queen and he her consort), the current British King and the line of succession would be:

since 2009: HM King Hubertus
  1. HRH Princess Friederike, The Princess Royal (sister of Hubertus)
  2. Felicitas von Reiche (niece)
  3. Victoria von Reiche (niece)
  4. Donata von Reiche (niece)
  5. HRH Princess Cecilie (sister)
  6. HI&RH Princess Christa (aunt)

A longer Union
However, if in accordance with the King-Emperors wish the Prime Minister advices him not to consent to the Marriage of his grandson with Miss von Salviati, the throne would pass to his younger brother, so that we will get:

1951-1994: Louis Ferdinand

Now we geht into the same problem again. Both the older sons of Louis Ferdinand married women considered ineligible by the old Prussian house rules. And this was in the sixties, where the marriage of Harald, then Crown Prince of Norway, with the commoner Sonja Haraldsen was very controversial. So both will probably be skipped over for succession as was their uncle Wilhelm in TTL. Therefore Louis Ferdinand is succeeded by his grandson (his son died during a military exercise), who will reign:

since 1994: George V & I Frederick

He, of course, happens to be the current head of the house of Prussia, so that means if history follows this path, the UK and Germany will stay united.
 
You mean the Emser Depesche. That was more about Bismarck making the sure, the French would never accept Napoleon backing off from war at the last second. But as with any respectable war, while the actual causes for the war were deeper and more complex, going back for several years


Yes, probably not immediately, but inevitably.


If Britain and Prussia win this war, which I think they would, they would be in a position to bring about German unification. As its unlikely that Hanover (which due to Salic law was already separate from the UK) in this scenario would have sided with Prussia's enemy, it would continue to exists, thereby leaving Prussia with a weaker internal position in Germany.

BTW, let's take a look who the monarchs of Britain-Prussia would have been (always assuming that this doesn't butterfly any different births or death dates):

1901-1941: William V & II
1941-1951: William VI & III (OTL Crown Prince Wilhelm)

Now it becomes interesting. The OTL Crown Prince's original heir, Prince Wilhelm, in 1933 married Dorothea von Salviati. Because his grandfather, the former Emperor who was still alive then, disapproved of marriage with a minor noble, he was removed from the line of succession. This could have resulted in another succession crisis, but there are several things to consider:

1. Would Prince Wilhelm (the grandson; I know it gets confusing if everyone has the same name) would have gone through with the marriage if the throne he was due to inherit still existed?
2. While the permission of the King-Emperor would have been necessary in Britain as well, unlike for Germany he can act there only on advice of the Prime Minister. What would the then prime minister of Britain have done? The case of Edward and Wallis Simpson might provide some insight, but unlike Miss Simpson Dorothea von Salviati would have been perfectly eligible as a wife of a British monarch, because Britain didn't have the same strict rules about Ebenbürtigkeit as Germany. Or could HM government have readily accepted the Chance to separate the thrones once again, because sharing a monarch with Germany would be seen as an anachronism then? Remember, a Germano-British alliance means those two countries don't fight each other in a World War, so Anti-Germanism wouldn't be very popular.

If he is not excluded from the succession, the situation becomes even more cloudy, because OTL he died during the invasion of France while serving in the Wehrmacht, which invasion would of course not happen ITL. So let's just assume he still dies at the same time because of a “alternate grandfather bullet” appearing out of nowhere.

Then we would get:
1951-2009: Queen Felicitas.

Quite a coincidence, I must say, that Britain will still have a queen reigning over more than the second half of the 20th century. Her accession would also mean the end of the personal union between Germany and the UK, as Germany followed Salic law which did not allow women to inherit. And if we further assume, that she still would have married Dinnies Karl Friedrich von der Osten (in 1958, times were changing and she was Queen already and able to decide herself, so no acceptance problem. Though I can't imaging her divorcing him as in OTL, if she was Queen and he her consort), the current British King and the line of succession would be:


since 2009: HM King Hubertus
  1. HRH Princess Friederike, The Princess Royal (sister of Hubertus)
  2. Felicitas von Reiche (niece)
  3. Victoria von Reiche (niece)
  4. Donata von Reiche (niece)
  5. HRH Princess Cecilie (sister)
  6. HI&RH Princess Christa (aunt)
A longer Union
However, if in accordance with the King-Emperors wish the Prime Minister advices him not to consent to the Marriage of his grandson with Miss von Salviati, the throne would pass to his younger brother, so that we will get:

1951-1994: Louis Ferdinand

Now we geht into the same problem again. Both the older sons of Louis Ferdinand married women considered ineligible by the old Prussian house rules. And this was in the sixties, where the marriage of Harald, then Crown Prince of Norway, with the commoner Sonja Haraldsen was very controversial. So both will probably be skipped over for succession as was their uncle Wilhelm in TTL. Therefore Louis Ferdinand is succeeded by his grandson (his son died during a military exercise), who will reign:

since 1994: George V & I Frederick

He, of course, happens to be the current head of the house of Prussia, so that means if history follows this path, the UK and Germany will stay united.


Would German Unification be in the interests of a British-Prussian union though?
One of the positive aspects between a British-Prussian union is they are societies with much in common, Protestant, largely ethnically homogenous, moving towards constitutional democracy and monarchism. I am not convinced that Britain would want to be tied to a united Germany. I think that it is far better that Germany be effectively split into two countries, the Northern part coming under the influence of Prussia, with the Southern Catholic part coming under the influence of Bavaria or Austria.
One form of further expansion of the British-Prussian empire would be to have Queen Victoria’s great grandson the Prince Wilhelm (born in 1882), heir of the last Kaiser marry Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands, thereby adding the Netherlands to the union, therefore there is a union across Northern Europe of Great Britain, The Netherlands and Prussia.
I agree that Britain didn't have the same strict rules about Ebenbürtigkeit as Germany but in reality it is the Prussian Royal Family that effectively has the upper hand in this situation. It wasn’t until 1917 that George V formally decided that his children could marry outside of the traditional European royal circles; this was due to the war effectively reducing the candidates. Without such a war, it seems to me unlikely there would have been this concession; it is still quite common amongst the former reigning royal families of Germany to marry members of other former royal families. For example Prince George Friedrich, the current head of the House of Prussia is set to marry Princess Sophie of Isenberg later this year.
 
I think that it is possible that Prussia will adopt the British succession law, especially if they want to continue the union or if it has already become a real union.

I agree that ITTL there will be two Germanies:
- The protestant German Empire consiting of most of the states of the North German Confederation and ruled by the King of Prussia as German Emperor.
- The catholic German Confederation consiting of all other German states and ruled by the Emperor of Austria.

France may still be an Empire ruled by the House Bonaparte.
Poland, Ukraine, Belarus, Finland and the Baltic states were created as buffer states after Russia lost the war.

The idea of the Netherlands joining the union through marriage is also very interesting.

The War started in 1902 and ended in a complete defeat of the Franco-Russian-Italian Alliance four years later. Italy joined France and Russia in the War, hoping to gain some Austrian provinces. Austria joined the British-Prussian Union hoping to remove Russia's influence in the Balkans.
 
Guys

Some interesting ideas here. However if such a union did occur and led to war then I'm not as confident as other that it would be an Anglo-Prussian victory, presuming of course that there is a clear winner. Don't forget:

a) Prussia was still seen very much as the weakest of the great powers, lacking the population of it's rivals and was still mainly agricultural at the time. It's power depended largely on a good educational system - which could be a huge bonus for Britain if it prompted similar reforms in Britain - and a over-large, for it's size, army. If Prussia does take a more liberal path because of it's new link with Britain and the army isn't as important politically it probably won't get as much investment.

b) Austria might have differences with Russia in the Balkans but prior to 1866 it has much greater ones with Prussia in Germany. Furthermore, albeit inadvertently, it is the prospective royal union of Britain and Prussia that threatens to change drastically the balance of power. Therefore, while Hanover could well be an exception, I would think it quite possible that Austria and the smaller German powers would be on the Franco-Russian side in a conflict.

Don't forget also that at the time Britain's closest great power ally was actually France.;)

The other factor is that by this time Britain has prior experiense of union with a German monarchy, under the Hanoverians, and the Parliament has gained yet further power. Also, with nationalism strong in Prussia I can see them being unwilling to being hitched to the richer and more populous Britain. As such I could see both governments taking steps to render the union little more than one of monarchs with the Parliaments gaining greater power compared to them.

This could be a bonus because it might weaken militarism in Prussia and prompt earlier political and social reform in Britain. Hence both powers and Europe in general might benefit greatly.

Another factor is that with Britain's move to free trade over the last decade they have radically different, not to say opposing economic policies so their definitely not going to be aligned and could well be another source of difference between the two parliaments.

As such I think a war is somewhat less likely than other people are suggesting simply because the union is likely to be fairly superficial.

Steve
 
Technically this goes in Pre 1900 because that is the POD, unless there is some mass death of male British Royals and their offspring in 1900.

I could imagine Victoria having fewer sons than in OTL and all of them somehow managing to die before producing legitimate heirs.

There would indeed have to be some living male heirs at the time of Victoria junior's Marrriage.

I am guessing that there woudl be a special Act of Pariament to change the rules.

Willy the stupid would not cope with being both an Autocrat in one place and a Constitutional monarch in another
 
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