The Stubborness of Washington

In 1781 a French Fleet heading to the Americas contacts Washington. The leader of this french fleet wants to attack Cornwallis in Yorktown, Virginia, but Washington wants to hit New York city. The French commander finally subbumbs to Washington's stubborness.

Basically, If the French and Washington had attacked New York instead of Yorktown, how would the battle turn out? Would the Franko-American forces win and capture New York, or would this be a resounding failure and turn the tide of the war for the British?
 
I think New York would have been militarily far more difficult. Plus the added presence of a huge Loyalist population would have been an added difficulty. I think a POD that postulates Cornwallis getting out of Yorktown before the French fleet arrives makes the decision tougher though.
 
In 1781 a French Fleet heading to the Americas contacts Washington. The leader of this french fleet wants to attack Cornwallis in Yorktown, Virginia, but Washington wants to hit New York city. The French commander finally subbumbs to Washington's stubborness.

Basically, If the French and Washington had attacked New York instead of Yorktown, how would the battle turn out? Would the Franko-American forces win and capture New York, or would this be a resounding failure and turn the tide of the war for the British?

It would have been an abject failure. There's no chance that de Grasse is going to agree to fritter away his fleet attacking the home base of the British fleet in NA. Rochambeau and his French troops will attack with Washington, but French naval involvement is out of he question. Washington and Rochambeau will have to cross over to Manhatten above Harlem and fight their way down the island, and like as not will never make it to the city. There's no way to beseige the city since the Brits control the sea and Long Island. If this had happened, the BEST the Americans could hope for would be an ubi posseditis peace where the British would keep Manhatten and Long Island, the Carolinas, Georgia, and probably most if not all of the N. District of Massachusetts.

Interesting POD for a TL, though...
 
Loss of the Old Northwest?

Say the USA still wins the ARW, but it takes an extra year because of the failure at New York. How possible is it for the British to hold on to the Great Lakes region? Not only does this lead to the now-popular CanadaWank, but I am interested in the dynamics of a situation in which the Slave States have a guaranteed majority in the Senate until DE or MD get around to manumission, if ever.
 
Say the USA still wins the ARW, but it takes an extra year because of the failure at New York. How possible is it for the British to hold on to the Great Lakes region? Not only does this lead to the now-popular CanadaWank, but I am interested in the dynamics of a situation in which the Slave States have a guaranteed majority in the Senate until DE or MD get around to manumission, if ever.
The slave states would not necessarily get a guaranteed majority ITTL. Assuming something like the senate (with equal representation) comes about, various movements to ban slavery in west of the Appalachians might be successful.

But then again, New York seized after a year of warfare and siege could lead to a weaker Northeast, cementing Virginian / southern dominance of the new nation.
 
Absolute catastrophe and the best chance for victory is totally lost in the process.

Washington had it in mind to storm Boston in spring of 1776. Fourtunately for him, the weather wasn't accomodating (a big storm blew in) and before he could make a move on the city, the British evacuated the city.

When the CA entered the city, Washington got a good look at the defenses the British had prepared in the event of a CA assault to take the city by force. Washington refered to the defenses as "almost impregnable." and the storm that prevented his attack as a "remarkable interposition of providence."

New York would have been worse, in part, because Rochembeau and the French expeditionary force wouldn't have gone in for it, so the CA would have had to go it alone and they'd have gotten crushed. On top of it, the French probably would have withdrawn all support for the revolution and then where would that have left the U.S.? Dead in the water.
 
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