The Story of a Party 2.0

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Utgard96, Nov 29, 2011.

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  1. Darth_Kiryan The Númenorean Sith

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    Boney III is not the man that Boney I was, under any circumstances.

    Hell, this really doesn't look good for him. Guessing now that they might assassinate him, since they are in the middle of the forest in the middle of nowhere. Perfect place as any to hide a body.

    If not, handing him over to his enemies, maybe. Don't really see him abdicating.
     
  2. thekingsguard Founder of Korsgaardianism

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    Great update - rather shocking to see Napoleon III meet such an end.
     
  3. Utgard96 basically a load of twaddle about freedom

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    No, he definitely wasn't, IOTL or ITTL - much as he liked to think he was as skilled a leader or general as his uncle, his many OTL misadventures proves him much less so. The Prussian king was probably better at both, and he had Bismarck, Moltke and Roon on his side.

    Well, I don't think Trochu would actually kill him - although they are in the middle of the forest, they're still on the road between Paris and Versailles, and if someone suspected something and went searching, it could have grave consequences. As for abdicating, I don't see him doing that of his own free will, but it's worth remembering that he ended the chapter with a gun to his temple, and people have been known to skimp a bit on their original planning when their skin is on the line.

    I think it's a great deal more interesting than what happened to him IOTL - if only because it offers the possibility of a French Dolchstoßlegende fifty years early.
     
  4. Libertad Inter-galactic Liberator

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    There are prohibitions for states to issue poll taxes for TTL. Now, I'm curious about what kind of disenfranchisement laws would the South push for TTL. Besides, there are those literacy and comprehension tests and other methods from OTL. The thing is that is there still any possibility for segregated public institutions for blacks in the Southern governments and also segregated electoral constituencies that would allow some representation for blacks that didn't exist here in OTL, sort of them having more political space than here in OTL.

    I'm also curious if there would be some effort in taking the equal part of the 'separate but equal' facilities seriously?
     
  5. Utgard96 basically a load of twaddle about freedom

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    Well, IOTL there were the literacy tests, as you say, which were often fraudulent and/or constructed to fool blacks (the downright fraudulent ones tended to include grandfather clauses that exempted whites). There were also residency requirements for registration that blacks consistently failed.

    One interesting thing that the northern Republicans might try to counteract the disfranchisement of blacks is to exclude the people who do not actually manage to register from the eligible voter count. This would severely cripple the political power of the South, as many southern states had disproportionately small voting blocs compared to their representation. In 1920, for instance, Louisiana, which had barely 45,000 registered voters, had eight representatives, as did Kansas, which had 425,000 registered voters. Alabama, with about 62,000 voters, had ten seats, and California, with 644,000 voters, had eleven. This adjustment was actually proposed IOTL by George Tinkham, who suggested that the census should apportion seats based on voting population, as opposed to general population.

    Well, I've had a long chat with fellow Civil War buff (and Southerner, which is all the more important) MacGregor (who is currently off putting a boot in the posterior for his country in Afghanistan, and whose TL Union and Liberty you all should go check out if you want more Unionist TLs), and he seems fairly sure that Jim Crow, in its unequal form, is more or less inevitable once White Democrats are in power, and indeed that a harsher occupation only makes it all the more likely that they'd crack down on black civil liberties. I've gradually turned about to this view as well, depressing as though it may be, because it seems very unlikely to me that a brutal and divisive military occupation would actually lead to peace and equality.

    It's worth remembering that civil rights legislation was passed by Congress to ensure the equal part was true; however, this law was held by the Supreme Court to be unconstitutional shortly after, and it was almost never referred to again.
     
  6. Libertad Inter-galactic Liberator

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    This requires a constitutional amendment right? TTL's USA can pass this? Of course this is your TL so I guess I'll just found out how this would happen.

    And voting population? So the Congress would make districts out of the each state electoral commission's numbers of registered voters? And every two years or four years? What would happen to the Census? It would still happen every ten years or more frequent?

    If this thing got passed though, what do you think the South can do to counteract the effects of having black voters in federal elections? Of course I think they could disenfranchise blacks in terms of state elections. Or they could enfranchise them but make a segregated system of government on the state level designed to keep the white establishment in control. The white Democratic primaries is one case I guess in terms of preventing blacks in running for public office. There would be segregated polling stations and election officials too.

    What can the South do in preventing the Republicans to court black voters?

    Is the poll taxes part of the amendment applied to the states too so state constitutions can't issue any poll taxes?


    I love Union and Liberty! :D Yeah, I'm subscribed to it for quite some time. Anyway concerning this, I would refer you to my earlier questions again.... especially on the fact that the crackdown on black civil liberties would be bigger than OTL I guess.

    Yeah. I'm familiar with this legislation. Takes for referring me to these links though. :)
     
  7. Utgard96 basically a load of twaddle about freedom

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    Here's the new update, more or less wrapping up the war. And yes, Ducrot actually said that after Sedan.


    ***

    Story of a Party - Chapter XXV
    Contre nous de la tyrannie

    "We are in the chamberpot, about to he shat upon."
    - Auguste-Alexandre Ducrot

    ***

    From "Die Wacht am Rhein: A History of German unification, 1815-1916" by Dr. Prof. Heinrich Dorfmann
    Translated into English by Roland O'Malley
    Harper & Bros. Publishing Company, New York City, 1984

    "After the coup against Napoleon III, Trochu and his allies formed a Government of National Defence, vowing to continue the fight against Prussia and its allies. By this point, all of the German states had joined Prussia in the war but one. Bavaria, despite its strategic importance (controlling the border on the Rhine's left bank as it did), remained precariously neutral, not siding with either side in the war. This situation stemmed from the strained political situation in the country, as much of the people supported unification with Prussia, whereas the King [1] supported continued independence, and the Church feared the anti-Catholic Prussians becoming dominant in a German state. The leader of the pro-unification party at court was Prince Chlodwig zu Hohenlohe-Schillingsfürst, a Hessian nobleman who had previously served as a diplomat in Prussia [2], while the pro-independence group was led by Baron Karl Ludwig von der Pfordten, the Minister-President of the country [3]. The precarious balance between these groups, as the pro-union party controlled the Landtag and the pro-independence party controlled the government, prevented Bavaria from joining either side during the early stages of the war; after Austria's surrender, joining the war against Prussia became less palatable, and Pfordten and his group kept the country out of the war.

    [​IMG]
    Maximilian II of Bavaria was adamant to keep his country out of the war.

    The Prussians didn't interfere with this situation during the summer, as they had a reliable supply line through Koblenz and Trier [4], and the Bavarians didn't seem liable to turn against them. As such, when in mid-September the Prussians were on the Marne, Bavaria was still neutral…"

    ***

    Outside Château Thierry
    French Republic (proclaimed)
    Empire of the French (recognised)
    September 13, 1871

    Paul Bäumer was marching with his company along the country road, for the fifth day in a row. This was different from the trenches of the Mosel, and Paul couldn't make up his mind whether it was better or worse. On the one side, the weather was a bit better in the autumn, and there was less fear of shelling, but on the other hand, the marching was tiresome, and there were small engagements with French stragglers all over the countryside. He was still in the same platoon as before, with Kat, Müller, Detering and all of the others. Three of the original twenty had been killed, one by French artillery and the other two in the Battle of Villers, which their company had taken a small part in. The officers seemed thrilled at the change, some remarking that "this is how war should be waged" and that trench warfare "is nothing but sitting in a hole and waiting for death", a statement Paul could agree with.

    "Frenchmen!" someone shouted from the rear. The ranks startled briefly, but when the bugle called to break ranks and engage, order was quickly restored. The company broke ranks, ran down the hill, and spotting the French in the valley, opened fire.

    ***

    "Dear Mother,

    If you're reading this, it means I am dead. I shall miss you, the family, and everyone back home for eternity, and it was for you, not for the King, definitely not for Bismarck, or even for some vague idea of German-ness, that I died. Rest assured that I died thinking of you.

    Love
    Paul"

    ***

    From "Die Wacht am Rhein: A History of German unification, 1815-1916" by Dr. Prof. Heinrich Dorfmann
    Translated into English by Roland O'Malley
    Harper & Bros. Publishing Company, New York City, 1984

    "Following the Battle of Dormans, the Prussians stood at the gates of Paris. The French offensive, futile in its aims of checking the Prussian advance, had nevertheless succeeded in allowing the Parisians enough time to finish the fortifications at the edge of the city. In addition to the Thiers wall, the French had dug a line of trenches running from Saint-Denis in the west to Neuilly-sur-Marne in the east; the wall was defended by just about all the artillery that could be found and manned. Every able-bodied man between the ages of 16 and 30 was called upon by the Government of National Defence to take up arms for France on September 19. The construction of trenches, however, was rendered a moot effort when, on September 26, the Prussians took Saint-Cloud and Choisy, having the city surrounded by the end of the month.

    Bismarck initially demanded that the Prussian army use long-range guns to shell the city, but this was turned down by the General Staff, who feared that bombing civilians would turn foreign opinion against Prussia if it failed to end the war, or leave the French armies roaming the countryside and enable the French to restart the war effort should it succeed in ending the war for the time being. Instead, a plan drafted by Leonhard von Blumenthal, the general in command of the besieging troops, that suggested protracting the siege to create attrition in the French ranks while destroying any large army formations remaining outside the city.

    [​IMG]
    Throughout the autumn, although little took place in the way of military action, the city of Paris was starved so thoroughly by the siege that eventually, the Parisians had to eat their domestic animals, and the city zoo was massacred for food. The result were rather humorous-looking restaurant menus such as this one. [5]

    In mid-December, an irregular French army commanded by Louis Faidherbe marched through Picardy, aiming to cut off the Prussian siege. Blumenthal sent the I Army, under August Karl von Goeben, north to deal with the issue. On Christmas Day, he defeated the French at Soissons; this decisive victory, coupled with the checking of Trochu's attempt to break out at Neuilly-sur-Seine [6], made Bismarck, Roon and other high officials uproot their positions in Berlin and go to Versailles to declare the war won and crown King Wilhelm as the first German Emperor. This happened on January 12, 1872, and after over two years of fighting, Germany was finally united as a nation-state. Bismarck had been successful in his aims - with the exception of Bavaria..."

    [​IMG]
    The founding of the German Empire at Versailles, January 1872.
    ***

    [1] ITTL, Maximilian II still lives, though he's on his last legs. IOTL, he died in 1864, just as the Schleswig war was breaking out, but he died very suddenly of some kind of disease, and that kind of thing is quite susceptible to five years of butterflies in Europe.
    [2] Hohenlohe, of course, won out IOTL, and eventually became Germany's first non-Prussian chancellor.
    [3] Pfordten served as Maximilian II's Minister-President for two periods; in the first, he engineered the plan for the so-called Trias, the union of Bavaria, Baden and Württemberg against both great powers in Germany, and in the second, he sided with Austria against Prussia before getting pushed out by the pro-union party in favour of Hohenlohe. ITTL, this hasn't happened for two reasons; first, since Bavaria wasn't on any side in the war, they weren't on the losing side, and second, since there is no Welfenfond ITTL and Max II is more interventionist than Ludwig ever was, the pro-independence party is still in power.
    [4] A divergence here - IOTL, the only railway to the Saar went through the Palatinate. ITTL, a railway is built along the Mosel in the early 1860s, almost twenty years ahead of OTL.
    [5] For those of you who don't speak French, the menu includes such items as stuffed donkey's head, elephant consommé, kangaroo stew, and cat steak with a side of rats. For those of you who do, here's the full-sized image.
    [6] IOTL this breakout took place at Saint-Cloud, and led to the Prussians razing the château there. ITTL, Trochu's different planning means that the château survives, and eventually becomes a major destination for Napoleon enthusiasts.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2012
  8. Utgard96 basically a load of twaddle about freedom

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    Well, this is seeming less and less likely to happen the more I look at it. While it's a fun idea, it seems kind of hard to push through, let alone enforce, and there are quite a few problems with the plan as it stands. I think Congress, like OTL, would probably start to turn a blind eye to the Establisher rule ITTL, although the Establishers will be challenged more than the OTL Redeemers ever were.

    An interesting idea is to have them do like they did in South Africa during Apartheid, and segregate the state government itself by having one separate chamber in the legislature reserved for whites and one for blacks, with the white one being significantly larger and a bill needing to pass with only a majority out of the combined vote (and not get separate majorities in both houses). That is if, which I somewhat doubt, the Establishers would yield that to the blacks, and if, which I simply don't believe could happen, Congress would stand for such a system of government to exist within their country.

    It would actually be fairly easy to remove blacks from political power in the South, by means of fraudulent literacy tests and/or residency requirements; this worked IOTL, and the ban on poll taxes is only going to make it slightly more difficult to come up with another obvious method.

    Not much. There were organisations like the Readjusters of OTL who attempted to create a new South that would be at least slightly less nasty to anyone darker than a manilla envelope, and I could picture such organisations forming part of the Unionist party structure in the South (as that party will become rather heavily associated with the New South Creed of TTL). These groups' existence would likely weaken the Republican position as the main alternative to the Establisher-dominated Democrats.

    Yes. Look up chapter XII, "Amending Past Wrongs", for further info.

    It wasn't really directed at you specifically, more generally the readership.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2012
  9. Utgard96 basically a load of twaddle about freedom

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    40,000 views!

    I was going to wait with this, but what the heck. Not like I've got any reason to hold it off.

    Once the TL reaches the infamous date (why it's infamous, you will know when we get there) of February 28, 1882, there will be a brief intermission in the main storyline, during which I plan to do like Jared did with DoD and post the…

    Story of a Party - Where Are They Now?
    Year 1882 Edition

    as well as an update covering the situation around the world. I'm now accepting requests for both of these. Do you want to hear from your hometown, or perhaps you know some historical figure who might be up to something ITTL? If so, mention it in the thread, and I'll do my best to mention it in the update.
     
  10. Ephraim Ben Raphael Super Writer Extraordinaire

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    Love the All Quiet on the Western Front referance.
     
  11. thekingsguard Founder of Korsgaardianism

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    I wonder what shall be so infamous about said date? (rubs chin)
     
  12. Utgard96 basically a load of twaddle about freedom

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    I thought it fitted in fairly well.

    You'll get no clues from me.
     
  13. thekingsguard Founder of Korsgaardianism

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    Eh, it was worth a shot :D Can't wait to find out!
     
  14. Utgard96 basically a load of twaddle about freedom

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    Patience, grasshopper. We've still got twelve years to cover (eight in Europe, but with one exception, that's not where the date is regarded as infamous).
     
  15. thekingsguard Founder of Korsgaardianism

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    Hoi Sensei - I look forward to reading about every one of them.
     
  16. Utgard96 basically a load of twaddle about freedom

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    What do you know? Today's the thread's first anniversary. I never thought it'd get this far, and I'd like to thank everyone who's been reading, whether active commenters or lurkers, and hope you'll stay along for another year of our grand "SoaP opera" (if you would call it that).

    EDIT: Also, anyone have any requests for the "Where are they now?" update?
     
  17. Iserlohn Amateur Cartographer

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    Well, I'll post a few suggestions tomorrow, my mind this evening is a bit blank. Stupid Civ5 with my current game with the Aztecs and my Mayan (and ValLettan) allies fighting against Nappy...

    Also: Wonderfully stupid pun :D I'm still looking forward for more!
     
  18. Utgard96 basically a load of twaddle about freedom

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    My next update is basically ready; would you mind proofreading it, BTW? It's about the things we discussed earlier...
     
  19. Iserlohn Amateur Cartographer

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    Well, I can, however you might only get feedback tomorrow evening (because I have a seminar tomorrow, so I'll only be home at 6 PM CET, so I'd probably only be able to give feedback that evening).
     
  20. Utgard96 basically a load of twaddle about freedom

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    That's alright. I'll send it over.
     
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