The Star-Spangled Expanded Universe of "What Madness Is This?"

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Napoleon53, Dec 13, 2018.

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  1. Time Enough Nightmare angel of the Tea Rooms

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    It works, it makes sense that comics would develop earlier in a place like the RU, easier to deliver propaganda to children and teens beside films. Rather humorous as well. Also Stanley Kirby is pretty fun, he's also quite handsome in that photo. Good section.

    I could suspect they would be African American heroes soon, a John Henry meets Falcon type maybe written by a Langston Hughes type. Also I wonder who would be the equivalent of South American comics, maybe China or the Dutch Empire.
     
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  2. Sunstone77 Well-Known Member

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    I considered including a Falcon-esqe character called The Eagle but the post was also getting quite long and it's hard finding images of early heroes of colour. I'm thinking of including a black industrialist as the Madnessverse Iron Man/Steel equivalent should I ever do a part 2
     
  3. Time Enough Nightmare angel of the Tea Rooms

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    In terms of early images of African American heroes I did find a Cowboy hero called Lobo, who seems interesting (I could see Westerns being popular, Pinnacle Men conquering the plains against Europan Californians, Mexicans and Native Americans etc.) and a Black Detective called Ace Harlem who was probably the first African American hero in this case a Detective, he also belonged to a comic drawn and written entirely by African American creators.

    Hope that's some help (it's not exactly what you thought but it could be a start).
     
  4. traveller76 Member

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    I was searching for a title for a woman's magazine in the Union and came across this list of Roman Goddesses. After reading the comics article I am suddenly thinking of Sailor Moon, RU Style. Imagine this lineup.

    1. Juno, Queen of Goddesses
    2. Minerva, Goddess of Wisdom
    3. Flora, Goddess of Flowers and Spring
    4. Vesta, Virgin Goddess of Family, Home, and Hearth
    5. Venus, Goddess of Love, Desire, Sex, and Prosperity
    6. Ceres, Goddess of Agriculture and Motherly Relationships
    7. Diana, Goddess of the Hunt and the Moon
    8. Salacia, Goddess of Salt Water
    9. Luna, the Embodiment of the Moon
    10. Fortuna, the Goddess of Fortune
     
  5. Murica1776 Building an American Tomorrow

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    Something I've wanted to do for awhile

    Hark the Sound of Christian Men's Voices: The Story of the Presbyterian Church of Carolina




    Presbie.jpg
    The official logo of the Presbyterian Church of Carolina. The current slogan is Pro Deo et Confoederationis (For God and Confederation)
    The Confederation of the Carolinas is home to many Christian Protestant denominations, everyone from Episcopalians to Fundamentalists. However, the nation has always been dominated by the Presbyterian Church, and there is yet to be a non-Presbyterian elected to any kind of state or Confederal office in Carolina. Presbyterianism has shaped Carolinian culture, and vice versa. With the rise of Fundamentalism in British controlled Northern Ireland and Scotland, Carolina is now home to the largest concentration of Presbyterians in the world, and the people who run the nation intend to keep it that way. No overview of the Carolinas can be complete until the Presbyterian Church in the nation is fully studied and understood.

    Presbyterianism first arrived in Carolina with the wave of Ulster Scot (then known as Scotch-Irish) settlement in the Carolinas from 1710-1775. Thousands of these hardy people settled the frontiers, both to find prosperity and to escape the domination of the Anglican planter elite. They brought with them their hard-nosed dispositions, their tribalism, and most importantly to this story, their fiery and democratic Presbyterian faith. The Presbyterian faith has its origins in Scotland, being founded by the devout Calvinist John Knox in 1560, when he published several instrumental works including the First Book of Discipline, which dictated doctrine and founded the Presbyterian form of church governance, where a board of elders is elected by the congregation. Aside from some minor modern adaptations, this book is still the bedrock upon which Cokie Presbyterianism rests. When the American Revolution broke out, Carolinian Presbyterians overwhelmingly sided with the Patriots. They both legitimately believed in the cause of Liberty and wanted a chance to undermine the Tory Anglican planter elite, and earn a place at the table of Carolinian politics. As the Old Republic deteriorated, so too did the grip of the Anglican planters, which culminated in the rise of backwoods strongman and devout Presbyterian Andrew Jackson as Chancellor of the Confederation in 1801, as the United States fell apart. Jackson was so beloved by the population that he could dictate almost anything, including the cultural and religious future of the nation. Seeing the writing on the wall, the planters swallowed their pride and converted en masse to the Presbyterian Church in the early years of the Confederation, as calls erupted to bar Anglicans from office. Jackson never barred any denomination from office but the message was clear: Carolina was Presbyterian land, and other denominations just lived on it.

    During the Cuba War, Presbyterian churches across the country practically functioned as recruitment offices and propaganda outlets. Preachers gave thundering sermons that were practically hellfire and brimstone condemnations of Virginia, and encouraged young men to "Take up the apostleship of sword and shot" as one Wilmington preacher put it. Pulpits and church exteriors were draped in flags as a show of support for Jackson's boys. When the war was lost, the Carolinian people were consumed with anguish and rage. This was reflected in the tone of the Church, which became much more focused on redeeming Carolina's "moral impurities" than it had in the past, with hard work and strict sexual moralizing practically becoming fetishes of the Presbyterian population. Another effect was a radicalizing of the Church's stance on slavery and Catholicism. Before the Cuba War, the Presbyterian Church was deafeningly silent on the issue of slavery. However, reeling from national defeat and bloody slave uprisings, the Presbyterian Church announced by unanimous vote at the General Presbytery of 1829 to canonize the so-called "Children of Ham Doctrine." This stated that "the dusky peoples of the Earth, particularly those originating from the Dark Continent of Africa, are the modern Children of Ham, forever destined to be hewers of wood and drawers of water for their white Presbyterian masters." This doctrine passed in no small part thanks to the increasing power of the planter class over the Church. Anti-Catholicism sunk in later, but by 1853 the Presbytery canonized the "Whore from Rome Doctrine" which declared that "The Catholic so-called Church and its false god-king the Pope is the Whore of Babylon based in Rome, and is the Mother of Abominations. Catholicism is the chosen doctrine of the French World Empire that desires total domination of the Protestant peoples of the world and the Irish hell hordes of the Virginian Satanic Dictatorship of Tyranny. We must smite the Whore's children whenever and wherever we can." This doctrine was an excellent foreshadowing of the Confederation-Union Pact signed a year later, and was only further ingrained by the warcrimes of General Thomas "Bloodbeard" Cleburne and his Irish soldiers during the Great American War.

    After the GAW, the Church underwent a transformation. The Great Disturbance nearly ripped the Church in two with Robert Addison of Gainesville, West Carolina leading the pro-Redshirt Presbyterian Purity Movement. With the advent of the Office of Public Virtue in 1893 and the final crackdown, the pastors in the PPM were rounded up, and their congregants were forcefully re-integrated into the Church. In the General Presbytery of 1894, the church leadership unanimously passed the "Treason Doctrine," which stated simply "Treason against the Confederation is Treason against God." In practice, any free political debate the Church once fostered was stamped out in favor of rallying behind Raleigh. In the following years, the Presbyterian Church began reflecting the influence of the Yankees on their nation, as some rather Fundamentalist style ideas took hold. In 1899, the Church formed the so-called Council of Doctrinal Research, the most formal organization created yet by the Church. Although they weren't a fully secret society, and there were no occult or totalitarian shenanigans, the CDR did behave somewhat similarly to the Council of Jehovah. They wielded outsized influence in the halls of power, set the agenda of the General Presbytery, and took the Church down a more Burr-like, jingoistic route. Of course, the biggest difference was that the members were known and celebrated as True Christian Cokies and were democratically elected by the Presbytery vs the more secretive and authoritarian AFC. In fact, many historians and political analysts believe that the democratic tradition of the Presbyterian Church preserved Cokie democracy (for Protestant whites) even as their allies deteriorated into total dictatorship.

    The buildup to, and the aftermath of, the Great Patriotic War really saw the Presbyterian Church of Carolina start to resemble a Cokiefied AFC. In the aftermath of a devastating Beutelist bombing at the First Presbyterian Church of Durham, the CDR and the General Presbytery of 1905 announced the creation of the Christian Guards. The CG were analogous to the Zealots of the AFC, although they were less brainwashed and did not have legal authority beyond Presbyterian property. However, on church grounds they had the same power as the OPV or local law enforcement and could employ lethal force. The Christian Guards killed an estimated 750 people between 1905-1911 and thousands more afterward, most of them Africans in Jacksonland. As can be imagined, a great number of these killings were not what could be termed a "justifiable use of force" by civilized standards. When war broke out, the Church once again became a propaganda loudspeaker for Raleigh, with a common refrain being that "Our boys are fighting to make the world safe for Presbyterianism." When Cokie involvement in the war ended in 1914 with the successful enlargement of Jacksonland and the annexation of East Carolina, the Church's politicization became even more blatant and apocalyptic. The General Presbytery of 1915 declared that "The incredible success of our men at arms in the far flung corners of the world is proof that we are a Chosen Nation. Our forefathers gave us Israel names, and knew themselves a chosen people, like a Vine out of Egypt. Carolina truly is God's Country." This became known as the Chosen Nation Doctrine, and pulpits, theologians, and stained glass windows from Newport News to New Charlotte declared Presbyterian Cokie greatness in a similar manner to their Fascist counterparts, although the Cokies tended to be less aggressive about it. In 1916 the Church bowed to popular beliefs and declared that "Angels, demons, and the spirits of the fallen live among us." However, the Church still maintained that attempts to contact or control these creatures was "At best folly, at worst the most sordid kind of witchcraft." Nonetheless, even the admission of the existence of such spirits led to a boom in mediums and beliefs not too dissimilar to Spiritual Marxism cropping up in many places, although the Church, the OPV, and many other Cokies teamed up to arrest or harass these heretics.

    In fact, many Presbyterian ministers were aware that they were starting to emulate parts of AFC doctrine, and the backlash to Spiritual Marxism was in part borne out of a desire to keep their religion independent of Yankee belief systems. However, the biggest rebuke of the Fundamentalists (aside from the treatment of black people) would be found in attitudes towards sex. In reaction to the revelation of HOST and Mr. Tobias's wild sex life, the General Presbytery of 1917 instituted the Doctrine of Purity, commanding that "All true Presbyterians who wish to meet their creator on Judgement Day shall remain of pure body and mind, and will not degrade themselves by engaging in sodomy, adultery, premarital relations, onanism, or other unclean and impure acts relating to the flesh." Many churches started hosting so-called Purity Balls, where fathers and daughters would dance in formal wear before kneeling in front a cross draped in white cloth and signing a sacred pledge to work together to protect the young woman's "virginal purity." On the male side of matters, the Church and the OPV produced literature and later short propaganda films on the "moral and physical dangers of onanism, aka self-pleasure." This effort would culminate with the foundation of the Pro-Purity League in 1920, which encouraged "the engagement of right-thinking Presbyterian Youth in wholesome activities to prevent a decay into debauchery and immorality among the nation's young people." This obsession with purity spread to anti-drug crusades as well, with Presbyterian mobs destroying large stocks of imported Yankee drugs as "dangerous substances which encourage madness, decadence, and societal decay." Ironically, they weren't necessarily wrong about this, although the method they used to reach this conclusion was far from rational and fueled by the fact that George Washington Carver invented cocaine while daring to be black, thus making all Yankee drugs and foodstuffs suspicious. The final major theological development in the Presbyterian Church of Carolina we shall look at was the General Presbytery of 1918's declaration that "Illuminism is Satanism, and the greatest threat to civilized life in human history. We must wage a holy war to cleanse the Earth of its stench." The Church made a wave of Cokie anti-Illuminist rage official doctrine, and Carolina would be known throughout the world for a level of anti-Illuminism that even some Yankees found disquieting, as many a Presbyterian pastor would foam at the mouth while decrying Illuminism as the ultimate evil in the universe.

    In the end the Presbyterian Church of Carolina is both a window into the Cokie soul and a reflection of it. The Church, like the nation, is pugnaciously jingoistic, obsessed with the bodily purity of its daughters, violently racist, and belligerently anti-Catholic and anti-Illuminist. The Church will continue to dominate Carolina as long as Carolina exists, this much is certain.

    [​IMG]
    Members of the First Presbyterian Church of Chester, South Carolina, rally in 1917 to support the troops in Europe

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    Three Christian Guards in uniform near the Holy Presbyterian Church of Raleigh (1903)

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    "Matrons" of the Girl's Wing of the Pro-Purity League on parade in Raleigh (1919)
     
  6. 245 Well-Known Member

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    I was actually expecting baptist to be the crazy church of Carolina, not presbyterian, nice work.
     
  7. Murica1776 Building an American Tomorrow

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    The Baptists arose after the Presbyterians, and the Prebyterian Church has always been prominent in the Carolinas. IOTL, Charlotte, NC, and the 150 mile radius around it is still the largest concentration of Presbyterians in the Western Hemisphere today. Both Polk and Jackson were Presbyterians too. ITTL, it made sense for them to stay in charge.
     
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  8. Murica1776 Building an American Tomorrow

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    So, what are some Cokie inspired stories y'all wanna see? I'm personally thinking about covering non-AFC immigration to Carolina, but I don't know quite how to tackle it. Any additional story ideas are appreciated!
     
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  9. Time Enough Nightmare angel of the Tea Rooms

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    I'm thinking you show how English and Scottish moved to the Carolina in the aftermath of the Great War fuelled by a lack of jobs and bigotry towards Black immigrants that Britain invited in the aftermath (I imagine that Britain is a bit more liberal in how they deal with people of African descent since they don't have African colonies).

    Maybe also the exploits of Carolinians around the globe, fighting Illumanists in China, creating plantations and more.
     
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  10. Sunstone77 Well-Known Member

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    For non-AFC immigration to Carolina, there’s a couple of routes. Maybe you can have someone who’d be considered an undesirable or of questionable ethnic heritage escaping to CoCa for relative freedom. There’s also RU man gets a job in the south and the culture shock arising therefrom. Or you can have German family who gets split, with half going to the RU and half to Carolina and the difference between the two experiences.

    As for topics I’d like to see, I’m always a sucker for pop culture posts. We know a fair bit about what’s filling the airwaves and movie theatres in the RU, so maybe a showcase of Carolina’s homegrown competition might be an idea. Maybe Bermuda or Faryonderland (whatever Hispaniola was renamed to) as the Cokie rival to Kissimmee? Would be interesting if despite being as F-ed up as the RU, in Carolina, you can still speak your mind a little easier.

    Also, cokie equivalents of the Goodyear Enterprises and RU megacorps?
     
  11. Murica1776 Building an American Tomorrow

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    Thanks for the ideas! Here are the ideas I've derived from y'all's suggestions:

    • I think immigration will be dealt with in two parts. One part will be an official document/chart of sorts from the government regarding the number of immigrants coming in, where they came from, where they're coming in, as well as their religion, sex, etc. The other part can be a story of an immigrant family. One thing I'm really considering is a Northern Irish family just because it seems most logical. I imagine that plenty of them would want to flee in case of Irish invasion, and Carolina is the only other really Presbyterian place on Earth aside from Scotland, and they're falling to Fundamentalism.
    • The story of Abbadon Earnhardt and his men, who are hired by the Dutch to maintain order in their Southeast Asian territories during a period of native unrest. Maybe they also head to Germany or elsewhere to fight Loomies.
    • A look at a Union man who moves South and gets some nasty culture shock.
    • The rise of Forrestville, East Carolina as the center of the new movie industry in Carolina.
    • A look at some more Cokie corporations.
     
  12. Sunstone77 Well-Known Member

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    I'm interested in fleshing out Ireland a bit more but not sure where to start and also feeling a little intimidated by all Time Enoughs's great work so far
     
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  13. Ameroboto Deep State Bad Hombre

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    @Murica1776 I have an idea in regards to Carolina's immigration. Have some white Infees escape to the Carolinas and their colonies with totally brand new identities right around the time Cleansing Month starts thanks to forged documents, courtesy of some Normanists in high places. One of those refugees are a man and his family here:
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Time Enough Nightmare angel of the Tea Rooms

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    Don't be, I would be interested in what you come with. I won't be writing anything soon (been writing my own stuff as you can see in my sig) so go ahead and do it.

    Although of course everyone's favourite Irishman Mr Collins should make an appearance.
     
  15. Murica1776 Building an American Tomorrow

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    Jun 22, 2016
    A Report on Immigration to the Carolinas in 1925:

    Compiled by the Office of Public Virtue at the Request of the Honorable Chancellor Gamble

    This year has witnessed a steady stream of immigration from Northern Europe, with many announcing their intent to settle in East Carolina or the Colonies. This is desirable for us, as these areas are currently dangerously lacking in White Protestants in comparison to the population of native persons. If we are to preserve our way of life against these dangerous heathens, we must ensure the success of these immigrants. There has been an uptick in persons of American origin attempting to immigrate to the Carolinas to take advantage of the numerous opportunities to be found in our nation. In compliance with Executive Directive #78, the OPV has ensured that American immigration does not exceed 2,500 persons a year. The Americans are fine allies in the fight against heathenry, but the introduction of large numbers of American Fundamentalists poses a threat to the established order. Also in compliance with Executive Directive #78, illegal immigrants of Protestant origin have been fined and sent back to their home country (usually the RU) free of charge. Philadelphia has been wonderful in cooperating with us in this matter, as they view every immigrant as a lost taxpayer. This year has also seen a record breaking number of attempts by immigrants of Papist origin to enter Carolina. Apparently, many believe that religion is immaterial to our nation's concerns as long as they are white. We have disavowed them of this notion. The OPV strongly recommends more thorough language screenings and tighter border controls to prevent Papists from illegally entering Carolina. Below you will find a detailed report demonstrating the number of immigrants received, their religion, sex, national origin, and various other useful facts. Hark the Sound.

    Total Number of Legal Immigrants: 415,000
    Total Number of Illegal Immigrants: 100,000

    Breakdown of Legal Immigrants by Country of Origin: Brittanic Union: 200,000
    Republic of Germania: 70,000
    Empire of Germania (Finland): 42,000
    Australia: 33,500
    Refugees from East Germania: 30,000
    Sweden: 23,000
    Norway: 20,000
    Kingdom of the Netherlands: 14,000
    Republican Union of America: 2,500


    Breakdown of Illegal Immigrants by Country of Origin: Republican Union of America: 97,265
    Brittanic Union: 1,225
    Kingdom of Ireland: 1,000
    Mittleafrika: 510


    Breakdown of Legal Immigrants by Religion: 48.2% Presbyterian
    30.8% Lutheran
    Reformed German Calvinist: 13.4%
    Dutch Reformed: 3.4%
    Anglican: 3%
    Fundamentalist: 0.5%
    Other Protestant: 0.7%

    Breakdown of Illegal Immigrants by Religion: 61.265% Catholic
    37% American Fundamentalist
    1.225% Presbyterian
    0.5% Lutheran

    Breakdown of Legal Immigrants by Age: 20% Under 18
    35% 18-30
    15% 30-40
    10% 40-50
    10% 50-60
    10% 60 or older

    Breakdown of Illegal Immigrants by Age: 35% Under 18
    40% 18-30
    15% 30-40
    Approx 1% 40-50
    4% 50-60
    5% 60 or older

    Breakdown of Legal Immigrants by Sex: 55% Male
    45% Female

    Breakdown of Illegal Immigrants by Sex: 50% Male
    50% Female

    Policy Recommendations for the Chancellor:

    • We must make it easier for Presbyterians to immigrate here legally. As the international situation remains tense, our brothers and sisters in faith in Northern Ireland are under extreme threat. This is reflected in the growth in illegal immigration from Britain from a small handful of people to other 1,000 in a year. The OPV advises preferential treatment at ports of entry to facilitate the immigration of these hopeful Protestant folks.
    • OPV border agents need to receive additional training in dealing with Papists at the border. Reports indicate that some Virtuemen go soft on these illegals and let em in, and we don't catch all of them. Thanks to these namby pamby wimps, we have hundreds, perhaps thousands of Papists living amongst us, and the Office isn't optimistic about our chances of catching them, especially if they have forged documents. This also angers our Northern neighbors, which is never good.
    • Increased AFC illegal immigration is a massive threat to Carolinian sovereignty. We need to crackdown on these sons of bitches, hard. Steele is a wild card because he says, "If you Leave America, Do You Love Her?" but at the same time takes his whole "Defender of the Faith" title very seriously. The OPV recommends throwing illegal AFCers and Yankee Catholics into labor camps in East Carolina for a couple of years before branding and deporting them. That oughta straighten em out. Clear it with Philly in advance though, last thing we need is a bunch of pissed off Yankees raring for a fight.
    • We need to be prepared for larger waves of Lutheran immigration out of East Germania. Those Satanic Illuminists are only getting worse, and refugees are pouring into Cokie embassies wherever they can find them. Also important will be the devlopment of measures to separate the Germanic Protestants from the Polack Papists. Last thing we need are Little Warsaws opening up all over the damn place.
    • Immigration from Scotland should be encouraged. The Fundies are racheting up their campaign of conversion in the place, and we don't know how long the Presbyterians there will be able to resist a Yankee funded campaign of cultural and religious erasure. Every Presbyterian lost to the Fundies is an erosion of the faith. We must fight back as best we can while not offending our American allies.
     
  16. Murica1776 Building an American Tomorrow

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    The report I just finished typing up doesn't explicitly say that white Infees escape scot free, but it's implied. I could def see the Reagans being among those who make it. The report says 100,000 illegal immigrants made it into Carolina, but those are the ones they caught. Plus, who knows if those legal AFCers are all actually Betters ;)
     
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  17. Ameroboto Deep State Bad Hombre

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    Fixed for you ;) Who knows? Maybe little Ronnie becomes Chancellor of the Carolinas?
     
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  18. Murica1776 Building an American Tomorrow

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    That's a definite and hilarious possibility. I also developed another idea based on that report.

    As it's basically flat out stated, the Cokies are engaging in hardcore demographic engineering to preserve the Presbyterian faith in the face of the Fundie onslaught. Gamble, I imagine, is a devoted Presbyterian even if he is an unwitting Yankee puppet. Who knows, maybe he has even begun to secretly despise his puppetmasters! So, what if Gamble launches Operation: Knox's Ark, an effort to preserve Presbyterianism. The operation could consist of overt propaganda and missionary operations, and maybe, just maybe, the odd covert attack on Yankee missionaries in Britain. It would be small enough to escape notice, but large enough to have some effect, even if on just a precious couple of thousand people.​
     
  19. Ameroboto Deep State Bad Hombre

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    I can see TTL's version of Ronnie's father secretly hiding his and his sons' Irish ancestry under a false Scottish-Gaelic pretense, as it's the closest thing for an Irishman and his family to pose as Betters. Not to mention brownie points earned since CoCaro and Scotland are best buds.

    Jack Regan's neighbor: Regan? Sounds a bit Irish to me.
    Jack Regan: No, no, it's a Scottish-Gaelic name! Totally not Irish at all!
    Jack Regan's neighbor: Huh, I see. Well, welcome to the neighborhood, my Scottish brother! Remember, Hark The Sound! *waves goodbye as he leaves*
    Jack Regan: Yeah, Hark The Sound. *neighbor is gone from sight* Phew, that was a close one.
     
  20. Murica1776 Building an American Tomorrow

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    Jun 22, 2016
    Alrighty folks, I think I'm gonna work on Operation: Knox's Ark and an immigrant story next. I also have most of Abaddon Earnhardt's story planned out and it's gonna be a coked out monstrosity. Picture jingoistic, purity obsessed Cokie Colonel Kurtz meeting Yankee Harley Quinn after founding his own mercenary outfit and being absolutely gruesome in Dutch territory before going AWOL and being taken out by a joint Dutch-Cokie taskforce. After those are done, I'm going to cover the rise of Cokie movies and some differences in pop culture between them and the Union. From there, we'll see.
     
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