The Springfield 1903

WTF:confused:?! Dude, there's a universe sized hole in your logic! Modern day Britain does not have a time portal. There's only one time portal in existence and it's in the Bayous surrounding New Orleans. The French-Canadian guy just stumbled upon it.

Cut him some slack, okay? Granted it's your story and you want it your way, but he has a point; if one exists and some random Frenchman can find it, there might be others and other people might find them, or find the original for that matter.

BTW, the bayous are fairly small (a few hundred square miles), sparsely populated, and heavily traveled; the chance of such a thing remaining hidden until the early 1900s or later is very small, unless it just recently appeared, in which case there would be some disruption in the area, which would make it more likely that others would find it as well.

Next point; now that this Cajun has found this thing, and survived finding out what it is and how it works, how is he going to use it in the manner described? He can't do this all by himself, can he? And if he brings others in, the secret will eventually get out. Sooner or later the US government will get wind of it, and they will go ape-shit over it. They'll shut his little enterprise down post-haste and he and his friends will never be seen again.

Even if he manages to disable or destroy the time portal (you haven't stated whether this is a natural phenomenon or some futuristic device) the knowledge that it is possible to travel to the past and/or future is going to create massive butterflies. Time wars, anyone?
 
well, how much ammo do you want to move? you have so and so much space, right? or is it a open connection?

but isn´t it complete asb? because if you use timemachines, why do the brits not use them, too, so they will have 2010-equipments, or even better, they move some years behind, find out what you plan, move to the date of your birth and kill you;) hope you get the point.
but this would be ASB, right?

you also could ask "what happen to the invasion of the normandy if the germans move their complete 1989-equipment to the french coast warp em to june, 5 1944 and masscre all allied troops, shoot down 3-5000 planes at the first day (just think about modern Gepard-systems and what they would do to piston engine fighters, or - another "fun" - what will the leopard2-tanks do to the poor guys that reach the beach? funny? no - but it is the same with the "we warp in the time of 1770 and equip one side with modern weapons"... :rolleyes:

Oh, granted, the OP posits time travel to the past and is therefore ASB, given our current understanding of physical laws. But he was just asking whether the 1903 Springfield would be a suitable choice for his story, not whether his premise was credible.

As for time travel to the past, I subscribe to the many-possible-universes viewpoint. Every decision creates a fork, with one possible future for each choice. His Continental Army equipped with Springfields is one future; your Allies facing Gepards and Rolands and Eurofighters, oh my, is another, and the British Army of 1776 with 2011 equipment is a third.

And if everybody has time travel the outcomes are impossible to predict, or rather there will be all possible outcomes, each in its own universe. Pick whichever one suits you; there's something for everyone. As long as it's physically possible, it exists.
 

Hendryk

Banned
Actually mate, your wrong. If you watch this video it states that Britain would have accepted the loss of Canada if the US was successful in invading Canada. Also I do have a diplomatic twist to the story;);). All I'mma gonna say is f*** the French;););)!

A French-Canadian covertly snuck into the facility holding the time portal. at midnight, several months after the mission began. He re-calibrated the portal to Paris late May 1776 and set it to return back to it's original settings after he went through, then went through. He was a passionate French Nationalist and despised America for what they did to his beloved France. (...)

The announcement of the French Declaration of War and the meeting of the main character and Washington with Howe would be the end of Novel one.

It's all ASB fun isn't it?
Just because it's ASB doesn't mean you get to wallow guilt-free in jingoistic nationalism and strawman-weaving. Quite the opposite in fact, as we're quite aware around here that many an ASB premise is a thinly disguised pretext to indulge one's political and ideological biases.

Also, I dare hope that if and when you write that book, you won't be using quite so many smileys.
 
Are you really wedded to the 1903? Because I'm seeing several problems. One, the small caliber. Two, the small case, which is designed for nitro powder. The two between them mean either you get MV so low, you'd be better off with an 1851 Rem Navy revolver, or chamber pressure so high, the rifle will blow up. It seems to me you'd be better advised to supply Spencers or Henrys, which were designed for black powder & have calibers sensible for it, plus integral 10+ round capacity, without needing mods.

Then there's the issue of production. I presume you intend to have the Rebs manufacture copies? For nitro powder, you really do need steel, & AFAIK, that wasn't widely available in 1770s America. BP rifles could use brass, which was. (Substantial numbers of Confederate weaps had brass receivers.)

Finally, have you noticed the parallel to Guns of the South...?
 
Are you really wedded to the 1903? Because I'm seeing several problems. One, the small caliber. Two, the small case, which is designed for nitro powder. The two between them mean either you get MV so low, you'd be better off with an 1851 Rem Navy revolver, or chamber pressure so high, the rifle will blow up. It seems to me you'd be better advised to supply Spencers or Henrys, which were designed for black powder & have calibers sensible for it, plus integral 10+ round capacity, without needing mods.

Then there's the issue of production. I presume you intend to have the Rebs manufacture copies? For nitro powder, you really do need steel, & AFAIK, that wasn't widely available in 1770s America. BP rifles could use brass, which was. (Substantial numbers of Confederate weaps had brass receivers.)

Finally, have you noticed the parallel to Guns of the South...?

The parallel with Guns of the South is clear, of course. As for the 1903 Springfield, presumably he's keeping the connection open, so we'll be able to keep them supplied with ammo, spare parts, tools, and replacement weapons. If not then you are correct and we should choose some weapon which can be produced and maintained with the available technology, such as the 1859 Springfield, for which we only need a way to make percussion primers, which shouldn't be too hard.
 
Because an "independent" Canada is a historical fluke. We were far closer to gaining Canada than you think. We already had Montreal more or less solidly loyal to the cause. I think it had something to do with the fact that the people there were mostly French and didn't like being under the British yoke. I'm not exactly sure but it makes sense.
...
You're not exactly sure?! Be nice if you did a little research before spouting off. Fact is, that "Canada" at the time was overwhelmingly French and Catholic, this did not sit well with the very protestant and especially anti-catholic american rebels. While discussions were held they couldn't offer the Canadiens anything more than what they already had with their special arrangement with the British crown.

You know what's a historical fluke? A bunch of slave-owning, landlords, pissed of that their original investors wanted a return on their colonies succeeding in rebelling against one the world's two superpowers (at the time).
Its a little less of a fluke when you realize that the other superpower was actively aiding and abetting the revolution as a way to piss off their main rival.
But that's another story...
 
You're not exactly sure?! Be nice if you did a little research before spouting off. Fact is, that "Canada" at the time was overwhelmingly French and Catholic, this did not sit well with the very protestant and especially anti-catholic american rebels. While discussions were held they couldn't offer the Canadiens anything more than what they already had with their special arrangement with the British crown.

You know what's a historical fluke? A bunch of slave-owning, landlords, pissed of that their original investors wanted a return on their colonies succeeding in rebelling against one the world's two superpowers (at the time).
Its a little less of a fluke when you realize that the other superpower was actively aiding and abetting the revolution as a way to piss off their main rival.
But that's another story...

You are correct about the Canadians, of course; the fact that approximately zero Canadians joined the invading rebels bears that out. But as for the ARW being a historical fluke, true, except that all history is improbable, being composed of myriad small decisions, any of which if taken differently would produce a different outcome.

BTW, the rebels are not all slaveowning landlords; Yankee merchants, farmers, Southern backwoodsmen, etc. also participated. The same is true of the loyalists, and those who did not participate as well. That French (and Spanish and Dutch) support was vital to the rebels is a given; without it they may well have lost or secured a compromise peace at best.
 
What is the limit of modification? The ROF of this was quite high if I remember correctly.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedersen_device

The link does not give that info. But given that the sustained ROF of the M1 was roughly double that of the M1903, this device will probably have an ROF of 30 rounds per minute or so, equivalent to the M1.

The difficulty is that the Pedersen device plus M1903 is much more susceptible to damage than the M1, for roughly the same benefit. Better just to go with the M1 to begin with.
 
...presumably he's keeping the connection open, so we'll be able to keep them supplied with ammo, spare parts, tools, and replacement weapons.
Without knowing all the proposed details, it seems to me keeping a link open is asking for trouble. You increase your chances of discovery on both ends, for a start, & seriously increase the chances of spies from Uptime slipping in & screwing things up. Not to mention the obvious implications of a misplaced local turning up Uptime & making "A Sound of Thunder" look like "Timecop".:eek::eek::eek:
 
You said that the time travellers were going to stop Eli Whitney from inventing the cotton gin. What about the half dozen or so inventors who also invented cotton deseeders at the same time? Eli is only the inventor because his lawers were better than theirs, deseeding cotton was a problem that a lot of people were working on at the time. It had an inventor the same way that the steamboat, the auto, and the airplane did.
 

Dirk_Pitt

Banned
@ hairysamarian: No Justin Beiber dude(he's Canadian)... much worse. Course I reckon Canadians are ashamed of him too...:rolleyes: At least Shatner is a good actor Makes hating Canada much easier as an American doesn't it:D? You guys can have Michael Moore back by the way...


Okay I'm sorry for one thing: I gave you the plot of the novel piecemeal. Let's start over shall we? Just for your own peace of mind. Yes I care:eek:!

Okay the "Time travel" is a bit inaccurate. Consider Quantum Theory: The idea of multiple universes of every possibility. In this I'm assuming that there is a parallel universe based in the year 1775. But there's one difference between this universe and our character's universe(which is identical to our universe except practical physics is much more advanced which explains how our protaganist can travel to other universes but I digress this is quite immaterial so just ignore it). The Ottoman Empire doesn't exist! It's replaced with a resurgent Byzantine Empire. For your info it encompasses the Balkans, Anatolia, the Lavant, Egypt, North Africa, and Italy. You can explain the resurgence anyway you want. The history of the Byzantine resurgence won't be mentioned. I'll leave it to the readers' imagination. The Byzantines will get in friendly terms with the Americans and be a secondary ally in the war with the French, supplying some money and military advisors, though obviously not needed they're accepted for diplomatic reasons: It's nice to have an ally in the Med. They'll harass the French there. I might have a Lafayete-like character arise from the Byzantines to replace the young French noble. It should be noted the the Byzantine Empire is in a much better situation than the Ottoman Empire of our timeline: There's little natural hostility from Europe, they're still considered the protector of Europe. The Byzantine Government is a Constitutional Monarchy in the British vein. That's the only difference between our universes prior to our arrival. It should be noted that I am out of my element outside of US History.

Differences stemming from our arrival: Of course Canada will fall, that's a given. The Yorktown-like victory will be at Halifax(Where General Howe retreated(or maybe advanced to the rear:rolleyes:) after the Siege of Boston)(July 23 1776). France, due to that damn French-Canadian, declares war on America(June 28 though the message doesn't arrive in America until July 22). Spain declares war on the US(June 30 1776). Britain accepts American Independence in the Treaty of Constantinople and signs an "alliance" of sorts with the US(sorta like the situation between the western Allies and the Soviets during WW2, the enemy of my enemy is my "friend". "Let's deal with the damned French first." Americans say. The British say something much more dignified but the sentiment is the same)(Dec '76). That's the end of the first section of the book. Actually the negotiations are covered in the next section. The first section ends just after the main character's meeting with General Howe as he collects his thoughts.
The next section shows the negotiations taking place in Constantinople between British and American diplomats and moderated by the Byzantines and Russians. The main character is there to represent his group. Several weeks later(sped up by the fact that the main character had a copy of our timeline's Treaty of Paris+ the cession of Canada and Florida to the US it was generally agreed to with some modification). The day after it was signed British and Byzantines(who were more ethusiastic understandably then the British) agreed to and alliance to deal with the Franco-Spanish Alliance.
As our main character arrives back in America he receives disturbing news that the French landed 10K men in South Carolina and was causing trouble down there. Not only that but the Spanish launched an expedition from New Orleans into what would become the State of Mississippi. Not only that but they were taking a leaf out of the Swamp Fox's book and avoiding all direct contact with the enemy! Someone tipped them off... The French Canadian, but they don't know it yet...
To counter these moves our main character dispatches an expedition to the south to link up with the force still in Florida and moves west to deal with the Spanish and secure New Orleans. Then the main character and Washington lead the main force into South Carolina. Regardless of initial success it takes 4 years to clear all the French forces. There's very high casuality rates. It's akin to Vietnam!
Well by 1780 King Louis XVI has had enough and the French people never wanted to go to war against America in the first place. This will sow the seeds for later problems in France. Soon peace is declared. Spain cedes Louisianna to the US.


The book will go on until 1815 by the way.


I'm going to create a new thread in the ASB section.
 
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