Tbh, Louis already had control of the church in his territory thanks to the concessions given by the Pope of the last Italian war, meaning that he essentially ran the church in France while staying catholic and the nobles were in theory still with power... But it was pretty clear who held all the power and Louis just played nice with them because he didn't want to keep crushing any revolts like the Grand Cabal that happened during his infancy, so while he kept the Grands of the realm around to stop them of making trouble he also had the backing of smaller nobility and the middle class who were in many state positions who helped essentially solidify royal control without having to resort to violence and it worked... Until Louis XV messed everything up and left a mess that Louis XVI was not ready to fix.
The Spanish Heir (What if Carlos II had a son?)
- Thread starter Archduke
- Start date
I know that the kings of France held great powers in the ecclesiastical sphere thanks to the concordat of Bologna of 1516, but I was saying in general referring to him only as an example for the rest of the monarchs in Catholic countries, so as to dispel the belief that the English and Protestants had at the time that papist = absolutist while they had freedom
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Honestly, Denmark-Norway had the most absolute monarchy. They even had it codified in the Kongelov and everything
I agree with you, you given a perfect example for that's exactly what I meant
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They have come out of several campaigns against the Ottomans and with experienced commanders (even if they aren't from Austria itself) so they're definitely not and it's gonna be a rude awakening for him
i think the biggest problem in the line of thinking is how L XIV is rating these armies seperatly when its reasonable and even expected for them to work together against him.
Now, suddenly bunching together a bunch of nobleman-led armies would not lead to great cooperation, but here several elector armies and the emperor's own are getting hang of working together. It might not be a quick and smooth process and probably not even done by the time they have to war against France, but the way they are being judged seperatly sounds like hes singing up for a surprise.
Ofc this relies on them not having a falling out and fracturing, aswell as defacto coming together to fight France rather than just saying they will and then fighting each by themself.
France has reason to believe that splitting off Electors is possible as they have done multiple times in the past, Brandenburg was split off from the end of the Dutch War and is now drifting back to the Austrians, Cologne has been in an off and on relationship with France, and Bavaria's elector is French-educated. So France can rate the armies separately. I think the bigger issue is that France is doing so little to separate the princes from the Emperor at the moment. France isn't stopping the princes from cooperating with the Emperor in Hungary and developing greater trust amongst themselves. If France was actively sabotaging those relationships than France's separate ratings would be perfectly fine. But by not being aggressive in its diplomacy among the Germans, France is making it less and less likely that it can split up the Empire later on.
I hope this continues! I want to see the Empire more united under the habsburg eagle!
Ramontxo
Donor
A good healthy sergeant doing his duty...I: The Habsburg Miracles
The Battle of Vienna (1683)
On September 8, 1683, the nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary arrived in Vienna. On this holy day, priests, citizens, and soldiers alike poured into the churches of Vienna or failing that, their steps, and prayed. For unlike any previous nativity, this one had been one that many expected to live to see. For two months, Vienna had been surrounded by more than 150,000 Turkish soldiers commanded by the Grand Vizier, Kara Mustafa, Pasha, himself. This mighty host had cut off Vienna entirely from the rest of the Christian world and bombarded it daily while the Ottoman trenches steadily advanced upon the city. The Austrian army and band of citizens that had been left behind by their frightened Emperor Leopold numbered less than 20,000. Their situation was desperate and even their stalwart garrison commander, Ernst Rudiger von Starhemberg, could sense that the city would not survive much longer, and once the Ottomans broke through its walls everyone knew that only a bloody execution awaited every one of them. In the grips of this terrible situation, Starhemberg and the defenders of Vienna could do nothing more than pray for deliverance from the Blessed Virgin Mary.
That same Wednesday night those prayers were answered when the daily signal rockets of Vienna were answered by five rockets from Kahlenberg Hill in the west. Those five brilliant flashes signaled that the relief that Vienna had long-awaited and desperately needed was presently on its way. However, on Thursday, the only banners that waved in the fields around Vienna were the banners of the Ottomans and the soldiers beneath those banners remained in place, not diverted to fight some other foe. Of greatest concern, the cannonades against Vienna slackened, which only ever happened when the Ottomans were preparing a direct attack on the city. That afternoon, with the western horizon still devoid of signs of Christendom, an explosion rocked the western defenses of Vienna when a mine cratered part of Lobl Bastion.
Soon after, hundreds of Ottoman soldiers charged up the slope toward Vienna's walls to wrench Lobl Bastion out of the defenders' hands. Starhemberg's expectation of this attack meant that the breach in Lobl's wall had been stuffed with Austrian soldiers. Even after close to sixty days of unending and horrific investment, the Austrians stood strong and drove back the Ottomans twice. The toll that the Austrians inflicted on their attacks was so severe that the Grand Vizier declined sending the third assault. Afterward, Starhemberg quickly organized the repairing and retrenchment of the outer defenses of Vienna. Additionally, Starhemberg backed up these fortifications with chains and barricades in the streets and homes behind the walls. Whether the signals of the day before were true precursors to a timely relief or not, Starhemberg had no intention of surrendering Austria's capital to the enemy. Death was a more palatable alternative.
Those signals had not been for naught. A relief army had been formed and was in fact on its way. For the previous two months, just a mere 20,000 Imperial soldiers had remained within touching distance of Vienna to provide the vague suggestion of relief. But over the last weeks of August, that 20,000 men had been dramatically increased to create a real army. First, came 11,000 Bavarians under the personal command of the twenty-one-year-old Elector Maximilian II Emanuel. Unlike any other contingent, even the Emperor's own soldiers, Max Emanuel and his Bavarians had not demanded some incredible subsidy upfront or alternative reward to come to the aid of Vienna. The money could wait until Austria was not in the grips of catastrophe. For now, all Max Emanuel and the Bavarians required was an opportunity to demonstrate their bravery and prove their honor by saving the beleaguered city of Vienna. Shortly after the Bavarians arrived came an army of 6,000 infantry and 2,000 cavalry from the Franconian and Swabian Circles. They had only come after weeks of careful negotiation between Emperor Leopold and the Circles, which ended with Emperor Leopold agreeing to pay them a large sum for their services. Next, came 7,000 foot and 2,000 horse of Saxony, who like the Bavarians were commanded by their ruler, Elector Johann Georg IV. While the Bavarians brought with them an impressive train of field artillery, the Saxons brought an essential set of light and mobile artillery pieces. Finally, some smaller units of Germans such as that of Julius Franz of Saxony-Lauenberg added to the army.
The last piece of this army was 24,000 Polish footmen and hussars led by King Jan III Sobieski. This eastern army outdid the contribution of any single Imperial prince, even exceeding the army of Emperor Leopold himself. And this number was not even all of it. Some days behind the Poles lagged thousands of the Lithuanian subjects of King Jan III. Bringing this considerable army away from the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and then all the way to the Danube had left the Commonwealth itself practically defenseless. In fact, the only defense that King Jan III could offer was a stern warning and a threat of devastating retaliation against the Ottoman partisan Imre Thokoly if he attacked the Commonwealth in the King's absence. However, putting his home in danger was without a doubt necessary to give Christendom a chance to save Vienna. Without the Poles, the Imperial army counted only 50,000 men whereas, with them, the Christians numbered close to 75,000 soldiers. Although this final number was just half that of the Ottomans, it was far better than being only a third.
With a King and two Imperial Electors holding commands within this great Christian army, the threat of splintered focus and disorganized tactics was high. Although Emperor Leopold was technically superior to each of them as the Holy Roman Emperor, his previous flight from Vienna had proven that the battlefield was not where his talents lay. Fortunately, the man who Emperor Leopold gave command of his soldiers to, Duke Charles V of Lorraine, proved to be the perfect individual to navigate this multinational army's complicated hierarchy. As the exiled ruler of an occupied duchy Charles of Lorraine's only vocation for the past decade had been being an Imperial general. Through this experience managing the Austrian army's diverse officer corps, Charles of Lorraine learned how to bring an army together around a singular goal through personally connecting with each and every commander of importance. Whereas others were brash and offensive or deferential and meek, Charles of Lorraine was straightforward and easy-going, which was a welcomed ideal among soldiers and commanders alike. Quickly, Charles of Lorraine gained the confidence of the Christian army's generals and bound them to the goal of rescuing Vienna above all else.
Under Charles of Lorraine's guidance, Jan Sobieski, Max Emanuel, and Johann Georg all agreed to ignore Emperor Leopold's directive that the relief army should take a longer approach through the gentle grounds to the southwest of Vienna. Instead, in their eagerness to save Vienna, the relief army determined to reach the city as quickly as possible by taking the shortest path across the rocky outcrop of the Wienerwald. With all appropriate haste, the relief army soon cut its way through the forest to Vienna's northwest and then crossed the Danube dangerously close to the Ottoman outriders. By September 8, the army had made its way to Tulln, just 22 miles from Vienna, and was readying its final approach toward Vienna. That night they sent off the signal rockets to inform Vienna of their coming and inspire just a few more days of resistance from the city.
When the relief army finally entered the Wienerwald on September 9, it was confronted by an unruly wilderness that had grown out of hand since the Habsburg Emperors had denied the forest to anyone but themselves. As a consequence, the relief army lost its cohesion as it filtered through the forest and up its steep slopes. No man found comfort as he marched or rode through the crowded woods and its sprawling undergrowth, all the while thoughts of a terrible battle hung over him. To make matters worse, a German scouting party spotted Ottomans holding part of the ridgeline in the way of the army's approach. The Ottomans, however, lacked the foresight to either fortify or sufficiently man that ridgeline. This allowed the Christians to pounce on the Ottoman position between dawn on September 11 and wrest control of the ridgeline before the Ottomans could realize their mistake. Yet this victory was not complete as several Ottomans managed to escape from the skirmish and flee back to the main camp where they made the Grand Vizier aware of the relief army's imminent approach.
Ottoman scouts had already revealed the relief army to the Grand Vizier two days prior to this attack on the ridge. However, the survivors of the attack were able to confirm the whereabouts of the relief army and its size, which verified the Ottoman belief that the relief army intended to come straight at them from the west and that no attack should be expected from the south where the patrols had still not encountered any Christian soldiers. The narrow geography of the Wienerwald meant that the best avenue for an attack was straight at the center of the Ottoman position. This position could be defended by a series of mannered ridges, hills, and villages. Although the Grand Vizier decided against enhancing the natural defenses provided by the topography with either trenches or palisades, the series of obstacles still presented a formidable challenge. The Christians would have to funnel themselves into multiple zones of fire and if the Ottomans held their ground then it would be a slaughter.
Another set of obstacles and an even greater challenge for the Christian army would have to be overcome before they could even reach the Ottoman defenses. After the morning's victory, the Christians were able to occupy the ridge of Kalhenburg and look down toward Vienna. The maps had led them to believe that between that ridge and Vienna lay gentle slopes and clear ploughed fields. Instead, the rocky and uneven ground that had begrudged them in the Wienerwald continued on all the way to the edge of Vienna. The lines that separated the fields were not low wooden fences but haphazard stone walls and thick hedgerows that could not easily be traversed. These demarcations enclosed not open fields of crops but thick and twisted vines of unharvested grapes. Further complicating this approach was a set of deep ravines, small streams, and some scattered villages. Any of these alone was an impediment, but all of them together formed a veritable wall against an assault. As the Christians piloted this difficult terrain they would be easy targets for the Ottoman cannons and muskets. The cavalrymen high up on their horses would be particularly exposed as they slowly negotiated the convoluted ground. All in all, the Christians would have no hope of sending in straight lines of pikemen and musketeers or charging forth coherent blocks of horsemen. Instead, the Christians would have to advance slowly and carefully across the difficult ground and under heavy fire before throwing themselves against prepared defenses and ready defenders.
In the face of this adversity, the Christians did not cower. They had come all this way to save Vienna and they would do their damnedest to try, even with so much going against them. However, the Christians' willingness to push on was not the result of confidence or of faith. Many Christian soldiers spent that night sleepless and unable to stomach any food. Even Charles of Lorraine was nervous on the precipice of this battle. They all understood that the likelihood of their victory was low and believed that many of their souls would depart on the morrow. It would be a red day, all they could do was hope it would not be a black day too.
On Sunday, September 12, 1683, the great battle for Vienna began when hundreds of Ottoman skirmishers began climbing up the slope toward Kalhenburg and opened fire on the Christian army at around 5 am. With men dropping left and right, the Christians could not hold still and simply return fire. Instead, the Saxon infantrymen abandoned their positions and drove down the hill toward the Ottomans. The whole left flank of the Christian army joined the Saxons in this counterattack that swept away the eastern skirmishers. Although the first Ottoman attack was thrown back, the left flank of the Christian army had placed itself well ahead of the rest of the army in doing so, which left it vulnerable to an Ottoman counterattack. Charles of Lorraine took quick notice of the danger and ordered the left to slow its advance while the rest of the Christian army was ordered to catch up. Although the Saxons had dragged the rest of the army out of its strong positions along the ridge, the earlier success had inspired the men with confidence and even Charles of Lorraine could feel something. The order for a general attack was given.
As the Christians crowded around the Ottoman stronghold of Nussberg, they cried out "Ave Maria!" and the Ottomans threw back "Allah, Allah Akbar!" These screams and shouts were drowned out by the overwhelming sound of muskets firing, cannons blasting, and swords clattering. The fighting was vicious and uncertain. But at that particular spot, the Christians found themselves more numerous than the Ottomans and steadily overcame their Ottoman forest. Of great importance were the Saxon light cannons that had been successfully dragged down the slope to directly fire into the Ottoman formations. Within the Ottoman camp, the Grand Vizier was well-aware of the unfolding battle and committed his reserve to saving Nussberg and holding back the Christians. However, the Grand Vizier failed to organize a larger reinforcement from other parts of the army because he could not coordinate with the various pashas and Tatar chiefs. In contrast, even with the dreadful terrain and multinational nature of the army, Charles of Lorraine had maintained decent lines and formations.
Close to noon, Johann Georg's cavalry was unleashed on the Ottoman sipahis, which allowed the Saxon infantrymen to wrest Nussberg away from the Ottomans. Still, the Saxons had to fight the Ottomans for each and every house in that village. the continuance of this attack faltered as the Saxons once more overextended themselves in the chase. But once the Christians regrouped they renewed their attack and took the next Ottoman stronghold in front of them. At this point, Charles of Lorraine called for the army to hold to avoid another overextension. He needed to ensure that the army did not lose its cohesion and under the hot summer sun, Charles of Lorraine was worried about his soldiers suffering from exhaustion and thirst. This pause allowed the thousands of Polish cavalry to make their way down the slopes from the Wienerwald and toward the southern edge of the Ottoman position.
With the Christian army having successfully made it down the slopes and having already broken one Ottoman position, the Christians finally found themselves at the advantage. Even though the Ottoman army as a whole was larger than the Christian one, on those fields to the west of Vienna, the Christians were superior in number. And now that they had made it down the slope, those numbers could be fully deployed against the Ottomans. Both Charles of Lorraine and Jan Sobieski could feel this shift. To the northeast, Charles of Lorraine asked the German commanders if they wished to push on or whether they should delay the battle to the next day. To the south, Jan Sobieski asked his own commanders the same question. In both councils, the answer was the same: March on.
With this order shouted out, the Christians moved forward once again and pushed up to the remaining positions. In the north, the Imperial soldiers led by the Bavarians and Saxons assaulted the Ottoman formations and after an hour and a half, conquered them. All the enemies within them were slaughtered. To the south, the Poles sent a forlorn hope forth to test the Ottoman positions. Although this lonesome company was mauled by the far more numerous Ottomans, their charge still shook the Ottomans just enough for Jan Sobieski to order the entirety of his hussars and the rest of the cavalry to charge the Ottomans. When the Poles bore down on them, the Ottomans did not present themselves as the vicious conquerors of Constantinople. Instead, demoralized by the morning and afternoon's travails, the Ottomans were a disorderly mess that lacked the spirit and discipline necessary to hold against a cavalry charge. The Poles punched through the Ottomans and began to cut them to pieces. Quickly, the Ottomans lost the last of their courage and began to flee. Meanwhile, the Germans to the north continued to stomp over the Ottomans in front of them. Within the hour, the Ottoman army was broken and sent into flight.
The citizens of Vienna rejoiced when Charles of Lorraine's official messenger pronounced that "Vienna was relieved". Thousands exited their homes and cried out in jubilation in the streets while others exited the city to set their eyes on their glorious saviours. Everywhere music played and tears of joy and relief painted faces. Although the army remained on alert for the rest of the night in case the Ottomans came back, all knew that no such thing would happen. By some miracle of God, an army of fewer than 75,000 men had secured a true and complete victory over an army of more than 150,000. Vienna was saved and the Ottomans were shattered [1].
While this miracle on the Danube saved Emperor Leopold from suffering the same ignominy of losing Vienna as his ancestor Emperor Frederick III, it was not the only miracle to bless the House of Habsburg on that day. More than a thousand miles away in the heart of Spain at the Royal Alcazar of Madrid, another miracle was delivered to the Habsburgs. There, after twelve hours of screaming and crying, Queen Marie Louise of Spain gave birth to the long-awaited first child of King Carlos II of Spain [2]. Better yet, she gave birth to a son who could inherit the many crowns of Spain without any dispute. Thus, Marie Louise ended nearly two decades of uncertainty over who would next possess the crown of Spain. Just as the victory over the Ottomans was celebrated by all within Vienna, the birth of a son, a crown prince, was celebrated by all within Madrid. To them, there could be no greater miracle than that which saved them from a dozen European rulers laying claim to some piece of the Spanish empire once the sickly King Carlos II's heart finally gave out. Thus, both halves of the Habsburg dynasty were saved on the fateful day of September 12, 1683.
[1] This is a retelling of the historical relief of Vienna. There is no alteration to make note of.
[2] This is the Point of Divergence, Marie Louise produces an heir. There is at least one rumored pregnancy for Marie Louise during her marriage to Carlos II. Unlike the rumored pregnancies of her successor Maria Anna of Neuburg, this rumored pregnancy was taken seriously and not believed to be completely chimerical. One reason for that difference in reactions was that although Carlos II was never conventionally healthy, he was far more relatively healthy while married to Marie Louise. During this time, the only believed issue with conception was his premature ejaculation. Later, when married to Maria Anna, Carlos II was suffering from increasing health issues including atrophy. Here, the suggestion is that Carlos II and Marie Louise manage to get lucky and overcome his premature ejaculation to produce an heir. Alternatively, you are welcome to believe that Marie Louise found another partner. Or even that this is a legitimate miracle from God. Either way, she has produced a child whom Spain will accept as the heir.
1.18: No Peace Beyond the Lines
XVIII: No Peace Beyond the Lines
Rene Robert Cavelier's expedition to the Micippi
Rene Robert Cavelier's expedition to the Micippi
A universal truth was that whether war or peace prevailed in Europe, no peace existed in the Americas and the East Indies or the high seas that carried Europeans there. This truth was codified between Spain and France in the Treaty of Cateau-Cambresis which brought their six-decade-long Italian conflict to a close. According to this treaty, lines of amity were drawn. To the east and north of these lines, peace was the new state of relations between Spain and France. Any attack on the other’s trade or territory behind these lines was an act of war. But beyond those very same lines, the same restrictions did not exist. Beyond the lines, peace was not only not required but not even expected. With travel between Europe and the Americas taking on average around two months and with official news taking even longer, knowledge was outdated the moment it reached American ports. With how long word took to reach the East Indies, the traders and captains there practically lived in a different world. European kings and statesmen could hardly expect colonial officers and commanders to wait in constant paralysis for dispatches from Europe. Colonial raids, ship seizures, and privateering were a constant back and forth that Spain and France did not have the patience to monitor nor the will to discipline. Spain and France wanted their colonial and commercial interests defended and they outlined the guidelines to do that for their colonies. However, the details of adhering to these guidelines were often left for the sons and daughters sent abroad to determine beyond the lines of amity. To Spain and France, these lines were somewhere to the south and west of the Canaries. In effect, Spain and France would have peace in Europe and the Mediterranean but nowhere else. Even though only Spain and France signed this idea into a treaty, it was a reality that existed between all seafaring European countries. Spain, France, England, Portugal, the Dutch Republic, Sweden, Denmark-Norway, and even little Brandenburg all observed that there was no peace beyond the lines. What those lines were varied between countries and years, but most commonly the lines observed were a parallel of the Tropic of Cancer and a meridian between the Azores and Canaries.
The rule of no peace beyond the lines was in full effect in the 1680s. At this time, England and Spain were fully at peace with one another and enjoyed a strong commercial relationship and general friendliness. In later 1683, the birth of Luis Carlos, a grand nephew of Charles II and later James II of England, reinforced the strength of Anglo-Spanish friendship and ultimately led to the new Anglo-Spanish alliance in 1686. At the same time, the various Spanish and English colonies were waging a series of raids against one another. In 1684, a Spanish military mission led by Juan de Alarcon attacked an English harbor of privateers, the Bahamas. Alarcon surprised the English settlement of Charles Town and captured its leader, Robert Clarke, along with 700 other prisoners and a ship. Four more ships were torched while the entire settlement was razed. What few English colonists survived ended up fleeing to Jamaica or the New English coast. The mission was a total Spanish victory which in effect rid the Bahamas of its English presence. The English did not see the same success when the Scottish Presbyterians of Stuart’s Town in the English Carolinas raided the environs of the Spanish San Agustin in La Florida. The Scots captured just twenty-two natives from the Spanish territory, but worse yet they incurred the wrath of the Spaniards. In 1686, a Spanish counterattack wiped out Stuart’s Town and would have done the same to Carolinian Charles Town. Instead, a hurricane broke the Spanish fleet and sent it limping home. Still, the Spanish had humbled English Carolina.
Spain’s defense of its colonies against the English stood as evidence of Spanish resiliency abroad. In Europe, Spain was barely holding on to its empire and was losing piece after piece in each war. But in the Americas, even though the weakness of the Peninsula had led to some setbacks, the colonies remained intact for the most part. Certainly, Jamaica, the Caymans, and western Hispaniola had been lost. However, the core of the Spanish empire, Nuevo Espana remained stout. The only loss it had suffered was a native revolt that stole away Santa Fe de Nuevo Mexico. As dramatic and surprising as that loss was, the Spanish officials in the City of Mexico remained confident that in due time Nuevo Mexico would return to the fold of the empire. The resiliency of the Spanish in the Americas was symbolized by their view of the king. In Europe, Carlos II was rightly regarded as a sickly and morbid figure of scattered intellect. Although still a God-given king, Carlos II was fully reliant on his mother, Mariana, and his wife, Marie Louise, to truly rule. He was a doomed man and Spain’s only hope was that his son, Luis Carlos, was more healthy. Across the Atlantic in the Americas, there was minimal discussion of Carlos II’s issues. No official dispatch would ever speak of the king in such a manner and the stories carried by foreign traders were disregarded as unfounded insults. In the Americas, Carlos II was nothing less than the Spanish king and his administrators and colonists defended his colonies fiercely.
Just like the English, the French failed to recognize the stalwart mentality of Spanish America. Instead, Louis XIV viewed Spanish America as having the same weakness, ineptitude, and feebleness as its European mother. For this reason, when a Norman noble, Sieur Rene Robert Cavelier de La Salle, suggested creating a new French colony between Nuevo Espana and La Florida, Louis XIV listened. Rene Robert proposed establishing “Louisiana” around a great river that he had explored upon his last expedition to the Americas. The river traveled all the way from the great lakes of French Canada to the Gulf of Mexico. Through the river, this new colony would be connected to the Canadian towns of Quebec and Montreal but also the colony would gain access to the middle of the great plains of northern America. However, the prospect that excited Rene Robert and Louis XIV most was Rene Robert’s suggestion that the colony could become a launching point for an invasion of the rich Spanish silver mines of Nueva Vizcaya. When Rene Robert first proposed this plan, it was late 1683 and Spain had just declared war on France. Louis XIV was eager to punish the Spanish for their insolence and also wanted to capture the treasures of the Americas for his France. Still, with the pressures and costs of war bearing upon France, Louis XIV did not authorize Rene Robert’s expedition until April 1684. By then the war in Europe had already been decided and in many ways was headed toward peace. But Spanish intransigence gave Louis XIV just cause to support Rene Robert’s defiance of Spanish claims and threat against Spanish colonies. Besides, there was no peace beyond the lines.
Rene Robert left the port of La Rochelle in late July 1684, while France and Spain were still fully at war. In total, Rene Robert’s expedition counted four ships and 300 individuals ranging from sailors and soldiers to craftsmen, labourers, missionaries, and merchants. Only a few women and children accompanied the expedition, Rene Robert expected his men to find their wives among the locals. Even without women aboard, Rene Robert’s ships were dangerously overloaded. The flagship, a warship from Louis XIV’s navy, Le Joly, had twice its capacity while the supply ketch Le Saint-Francois was filled to the brim with extra materials and constantly lagged behind as a result. From the start, this expedition went poorly. Due to the war, Rene Robert had kept the destination of the expedition entirely to himself. Not even his captains were aware of where they were sailing until they were well into their voyage. In this manner, Rene Robert hoped to avoid alerting the Spanish and having his expedition intercepted during the war. His captains did not appreciate the military relevancy of Rene Robert’s secrecy and instead felt insulted. The poor relationship that Rene Robert formed with his captains meant that when he fell ill due to the overcrowding on the Le Joly that the ship’s captain, Sieur Tanneguy Le Gallois de Beaujeu, took the expedition to Petit-Goave rather than Port-de-Paix in Saint-Domingue. The decision meant even more time at sea, which caused even more members of the expedition to fall ill. Worse yet, Le Gallois failed to communicate this change of course to their supply ship, Le Saint-Francois. Instead, Le Saint-Francois was lost, and with it so were its supplies. Further members of the expedition fell ill at Petit-Goave and some individuals deserted the expedition to wait for the next ship home or join the colony of Saint-Domingue. Once Rene Robert recovered he recruited more settlers from Petit-Goave and retook command of the expedition.
When the French set sail again, problems continued to plague them. As they tried to sneak across the Gulf of Mexico, they got lost in the open waters that were unfamiliar to the French sailors. Eventually, the French found land but it did not match the description of the great delta that Rene Robert had promised would be the home of their colony. Instead, the French struggled along the coast searching and searching for the mouth of Rene Robert’s great river. Ultimately, they reached a bay that Rene Robert unconfidently claimed to be an inlet linked to the great river. Almost immediately after the expedition landed, some of its members were captured by the native inhabitants of the bay. Rene Robert went after the natives to recover the individuals, but in his absence, one of his three remaining ships, L'Aimable, ran aground. This ship ran aground after having abstained from using a pilot that Rene Robert had offered. The ship grazed the sandbar at first but then pressed on anyways, which was contrary to typical sailing. Naturally, Rene Robert concluded that the captain had run the ship aground deliberately and accused of doing just as much. When a storm prevented the French from recovering any of the ship’s supplies, Rene Robert’s accusations only grew in severity. By this point, both the captain of L’Aimable and Le Joly could not stand Rene Robert for a moment longer. Instead, Tanneguy Le Gallois laid out that despite Rene Robert’s commission as Governor of Louisiana, Le Gallois as an officer of the French navy had no obligation to him. His orders had been to transport Rene Robert, nothing more. Instead, Le Gallois claimed that with the war against Spain, his obligation was to return his warship to France. Taking Le Joly and many defectors with him, Le Gallois abandoned Rene Robert and headed home. When he got back to France, Le Gallois gave a dismal report of Rene Robert’s leadership and of his colony’s likelihood of success. Even though Le Gallois did not stay to see it, his prediction proved accurate. Even from the safety of their camp, the French colonists were constantly attacked by the natives. Without supplies and without knowledge of the land, the French struggled to develop a source of food. Malnourishment became a constant among the colonists. Finally, in early 1686, the pilot of Rene Robert’s last ship, La Belle, run it aground in a fit of drunkenness. Without any escape by sea, Rene Robert began to explore inland, where he hoped to find more fertile soil for Louisiana.
Despite the lengths Rene Robert went to in an effort to keep the ultimate destination and goal of his expedition secret, the Spanish still found out about it. Surprisingly, the Spanish learned nothing of the expedition when they captured members of it. Le Saint-Francois, Rene Robert’s lost supply ship, had in fact been captured by the Spanish. When questioned by the Spanish the captain and the crew all decided to remain loyal to their king and country and avoid any mention of Rene Robert’s expedition. Instead, they told a story of traveling to Saint-Domingue to resupply the emerging town of Petit-Goave. Given the fact that Le Saint-Francois was captured off the coast of Saint-Domingue, the Spanish had no reason to disbelieve the story. The Spanish also found themselves too distracted looting the supply boat’s rich wares to pursue the typical, inquisitorial interrogation of captured foes. In fact, the Spanish captain’s greed meant that the French crew was sold back to freedom at Tortuga rather than brought back to Havana for the port officials to interview. This episode was pivotal in preventing Rene Robert’s plans from being discovered before he reached the coast of the mainland [1]. While Spanish greed prevented the discovery of Rene Robert’s fleet in 1684, French greed revealed it in 1685. In the summer of 1685, Michel de Grammont and the corsairs of Petit-Goave launched their summer raids by first pursuing Gaspar de Palacios, the best pilot-major in the West Indies. Palacios being the excellent seaman he was eluded the corsairs and alerted the Spanish viceroy of Nuevo Espana, Conde de Paredes, to the pirate presence. Still, the corsairs were able to occupy and sack the town of Campeche. Rather than leave their ill-gotten goods, Grammont decided to stay so that he could demand payment for returning Campeche to the Spaniards. In doing so, Grammont gave the Spanish time to put together an effective response. Led by Andres Ochoa de Zarate the Spanish returned to Campeche and chased the corsairs out, capturing many of them in the process. Among those captured was a Frenchman with a loose tongue.
Ochoa made it clear to the captured corsairs that the punishment for piracy was death and that if any of them wanted to avoid that fate then they better give Ochoa something worth keeping them alive. One young Frenchman piped up and offered the story of a French colony on the northern coast of the Gulf of Mexico. This story instantly alarmed Ochoa who recalled the legacy of Diego de Penalosa, a former Spanish governor who had deserted first to the court of England and then to France. At both courts, he had suggested that a colony be established at Quivira and Teguayo, in other words somewhere between Nuevo Espana and La Florida. From there, someone could threaten the exposed northern periphery of Nuevo Espana. Even though Penalosa was rejected by both Charles II of England and Louis XIV of France, his proposals served as reminders of the critical vulnerability of Nuevo Espana from the north. The northern frontier was underdeveloped and lacked both the population and soldiers to effectively control the vast expanse it contained. Native tribes were already causing havoc among the Spanish colonies. In fact, the Pueblo tribes of Nuevo Mexico had thrown out their Spanish oppressors and left northern Nuevo Espana without any buffer at all. The precious silver mines of the region were exposed and the Spanish knew that. So for Denis to claim that France had placed a colony to the northeast of Nuevo Espana was deeply worrying.
At Vera Cruz, Denis was subjected to a rigorous interrogation during which he explained that in 1684 he had left France on Le Joly as part of a four-ship expedition. One of those ships went missing during the journey but the other three reached Petit-Goave where Denis deserted. But by the time he left, he learned that the expedition’s goal was to reach the “Micippi”, which had previously been explored by a Frenchman after traveling its length of five hundred leagues from New France to the open waters of the Gulf of Mexico. Even though Denis did not continue on with the expedition, he met some people who deserted with Le Gallois on their return. From them, he learned that the expedition had reached the coast and built a fort. From there, the expedition would ultimately capture the Spanish mines to the west. Other prisoners supported Denis’s story with stories of their own [2]. From these interviews, Palacios surmised that the French had found the “Rio del Espiritu Santo” that Hernando de Soto had crossed nearly a century and a half ago. The mouth of this river was supposed to be the Bay of Espiritu Santo, the finest harbor on the northern coast of the Gulf. Crucially, this bay was supposed to be 120 leagues from Apalache in La Florida, 160 from Tampico, and 190 from Vera Cruz. Thus not only would the French colony threaten the Spanish silver mines, but it would jeopardize the security of the entire Gulf of Mexico for the Spanish fleets. Even if the Spanish only had the word of pirates the possible danger of a French colony in the Gulf of Mexico was too great to ignore. Swift and strong action was necessary to remedy this threat.
From Nuevo Mexico, Palacios tried to organize two different expeditions to discover the veracity of Denis’s claims and the whereabouts of the possible French colony. One was supposed to travel from Tampico east along the shore while another would go to Havana and then La Florida before scourging the coast from the opposite end. However, a lack of good pilots meant that only one sailing expedition, the Havana could be afforded. From the west, a land expedition would be organized. After a number of delays, the maritime expedition of Juan Enriquez Barroto and Antonio Romero left Havana at the beginning of 1686. Barroto and Romero stopped at Apalache before continuing to the Apalachicola River. At Apalachiocola, the natives offered no knowledge of other white men but suggested that the bay the Spanish sought lay 40 leagues to the west. When the Spanish reached 40 leagues to the west, they found no sign of the French, but they did find an enchanting bay, Panzacola, with deep waters and beautiful white sand. But this could not be the Bay of Espiritu Santo if there were no French to be found. Also, this bay was closer than Spanish estimates, so the Spanish went west still further. Once again the Spanish found a bay, Mabila. This bay was shallower and less desirable than Panzacola, but once again lacked the French. So again the Spanish went west and again they found no French. They did sight a river but it was crowded by objects, maybe trees or mud. The delta seemed so closed off that one Spaniard, Juan Jordan de Reina, deemed it “Rio de la Palizada”, the river of the palisade. Having searched hundreds of miles of coastline and having seen no evidence of the French or of the Bay of Espiritu Santo, the Spanish returned to Havana. Despite the failure to find the French, no censure was given to the expedition’s leaders.
While Barroto and Romero explored the coast, Martin de Echagarai, a pilot-major, and captain from Apalache, arrived at San Augustin with a fleet fresh from Spain in February 1686. The year before, Echagarai had gone to Spain because he had recognized the exposed state of Nuevo Espana and believed that the Bay of Espiritu Santo would be the natural center for any French colony on the Gulf. Echagarai’s theories were listened to carefully by the Spanish statesmen and he was granted an asiento to explore the Gulf coast for the Bay of Espiritu Santo. However, the poor financial state of Spain after the War of Reunions left the government with little money to fund Echagarai. Instead, Echagarai was expected to rely on private financiers to support his expedition. Fortunately, even after the defeat in the War of Reunions, many Spaniards still clung to the hope of a resurgence that Luis Carlos’s birth seemed to offer. Among the hopefuls, Echagarai found the money that he needed to organize his expedition [3]. Recruiting, provisions, and the standard delays meant that Echagarai did not reach La Florida until March 1686. At San Augustin, the Spanish governor, Juan Marquez Cabrera, filled Echagarai on all the latest American news. Cabrera was excited to know that his prediction about French plans was correct, but before he could go on to look for the Bay of Espiritu Santo he knew that he had to find Barroto and Romero.
In March, Echagarai reached Vera Cruz and did so not long after Barroto and Romero had returned from their expedition. With the asiento that he bore, Echagarai’s interests and those of the Spanish Americans aligned perfectly. Echagarai’s asiento called for the discovery of the Bay of Espiritu Santo ahead of a possible French threat. Meanwhile, Conde de Paredes understood that his term as viceroy of Nuevo Espana was due to end in November 1686. Paredes’s term had been marred by a pirate sacking of Veracruz, by the episode of El Tapado, the sack of Campeche, and now a French intrusion in the Gulf of Mexico. Even though Paredes was not seeking nor expecting an extension of his term as viceroy, he did not want to end on yet another sour note. Paredes was determined to at least discover the location of the French before he was replaced. As a consequence, Paredes supplemented Echagarai’s expedition with more ships and men [4]. From Barroto and Romero, Echagarai learned that the French had not been found along the eastern Gulf coast and that the western Gulf coast would require smaller, special oar boats to navigate. Two piraguas were quickly built under Paredes's direction and added to Echagarai’s fleet. Each piragua was powered by forty oars and a few sails, defended by six cannon, and crewed by sixty-five men. Captains Martin de Rivas and Antonio de Iriarte and pilots Barroto and Romero were assigned to these two ships. Echagarai’s existing fleet of two ships was fully resupplied and given a complement of soldiers in case the French should be discovered. The plan was for the fleet to travel east from Tampico with the piraguas hugging the coast and checking each inlet for evidence of the French. All the while Echagarai would sail parallel to them in deeper waters to provide support and carry supplies.
In mid-May of 1686, Echagarai’s expedition set sail and began its careful search of the coast. Good weather blessed their expedition and soon they began to see the evidence they were looking for. On June 17, they saw the wreckage of L’Aimable. Although the storm that wrecked the ship after it ran aground had stripped it of its colors and other distinct markings, the Spanish still believed it to be a French ship. Spanish ships outside of Barroto and Romero’s expedition and now Echagarai’s expedition had barely traversed these waters in the last century. Traveling from Vera Cruz to Havana to Apalache had always been the better route. A week later, the La Belle was found still bearing the coat of arms of France and the fleur-de-lis. This was unmistakable evidence of a French presence and once Echagarai was informed of it, he ordered boats prepared so that the soldiers could land and investigate the wreckage. Smartly, Echagarai took the two French wrecks as warnings against bringing his main ships too close to the coast. But the piraguas and a collection of rowboats approached the wreckage. As they did so, a camp appeared and a scanty group of thin Frenchmen emerged. The French bravely opened fire on the far more numerous Spaniards, but a volley from each of the piraguas silenced the French gunfire. Soon after the Spaniards landed the French agreed to surrender so long as their lives were spared and the Spanish provided them with food, for they had so little. All in all, just four Frenchmen and one Spaniard had died in the exchange. Another twenty-six Frenchmen were captured.
The hungry Frenchmen gladly traded knowledge for food and informed the Spanish that around seventy other Frenchmen remained alive including the expedition’s leader Rene Robert. Currently, the expedition was establishing a new camp with better water and more food around 15 leagues inland. The Frenchmen also informed their captors that many of the other colonists would be returning soon to unload the rest of the supplies from La Belle and also to salvage the guns from L’Aimable. With this knowledge, the Spanish took most of the Frenchmen aboard their ships while taking their places guarding La Belle and also watching L’Aimable. When a group of Frenchmen returned for the supplies, they were ambushed by the Spanish and instantly surrendered. After more than a year on the hot and humid northern coast of the Gulf, the Frenchmen were eager to escape even if doing so required collaborating with the Spanis. The new captives gave up the specific location of the new camp, Fort Saint-Louis. Echagarai could not imagine any better luck and decided to land most of his crew to eliminate the French colony. Guided by the captives, the Spanish snuck up to Fort Saint-Louis and surrounded it. Even surrounded, Rene Robert was too stubborn to surrender, but all Echagarai had to do was begin to fire upon the unfinished fort with his cannons. The colonists quickly mutinied. They were exhausted and they wanted to leave. Rene Robert was knocked unconscious and the colony surrendered. Thus, the French attempt to colonize part of the Gulf of Mexico ended in an undramatic but total failure [5]. Yet even though the Spanish shut down the French colony, Echagarai recognized that this bay was not the Espiritu Santo that he sought. The great river and its bay still eluded both Spain and France.
[1] In OTL, Le Saint-Francois was in fact captured by the Spanish and no knowledge of La Salle's colony was gained. There seems to be a possibility that an official report of the capture was never written and sent to Spain. This makes it very unlikely that the ship's crew was ever taken back to Havana for the typical interviews. Instead, the Spaniards who captured them must have off-loaded them at some point beforehand. This theory would also explain why the crew managed to avoid revealing the colony. For every member of the crew would lie about La Salle's colony when few of them even liked La Salle is just implausible. But if the crew was released before the ship was returned to a Spanish colonial port then none of them would have ever got thoroughly interviewed. So I've developed this story to explain why Spain does not learn anything about La Salle from the capture of Le Saint-Francois.
[2] Considering multiple pirates supported Denis's story in OTL, I think that many of the corsairs were well aware of La Salle's expedition. La Salle did in fact stop at the corsair base of Petit-Goave where he both recruited men from and lost men to the corsairs. Denis would have been one of many deserters among the corsairs. Meanwhile, the corsairs probably learned the colony's most recent fate from corsairs who deserted La Salle's colony with Beaujeu on Le Joly. Later on when further corsairs were captured in Florida, they also revealed La Salle's colony. As a result, I think that the Spanish finding out about La Salle's expedition from captured corsairs is a certainty. For simplicity, I held to the OTL story provided by Denis, but I think even if Denis was not captured, the Spanish still would have learned about La Salle.
[3] In OTL, Echagarai's expedition never launched because he could not find the money. In TTL, I think that the existence of Luis Carlos and the excitement surrounding that will lead to Echagarai finding the funding he needs to explore the Gulf Coast. This can be considered a direct butterfly of the initial POD.
[4] In OTL, Paredes was energetic in his response to the rumors of La Salle, but in March 1686, when an official dispatch brought word of Echagarai's asiento (which was never fulfilled in OTL), Paredes canceled further maritime expeditions. He did not want to be seen interfering with Echagarai's asiento to explore the region. In TTL. Instead, Paredes sent out men to discover the status of Echagarai and ultimately learned that Echagarai had never come to the Americas. This series of events lost valuable time in the search for La Salle, which did not resume by sea until the arrival of the new viceroy. In TTL, Echagarai's expedition does get its funding and come to the Americas. Once Echagarai realizes that someone might have already done his job, he goes to meet them. Echagarai finds Barroto and Romero at Vera Cruz but also learns that they still have found neither the Bay nor the French. Naturally, Echagarai, an eager explorer, decides to team up with Paredes to complete his asiento and win royal favor in doing so.
[5] In OTL, the Spanish did find the two wrecks but did so a year too late. The issue was that further searches had been delayed by Echagarai's asiento until the arrival of a new viceroy who bore new orders from the king. In TTL, Echagarai actually finding funding for his expedition means that there is no delay in the search. Instead, Echagarai arrives in the Americas and joins the search for La Salle. As a result, the Spanish arrive at Matagorda Bay in the middle of 1686 rather than at the beginning of 1687. This earlier arrival means that the French are still on the coast where they can be discovered when the Spanish arrive.
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Man the French are just taking Ls lately huh? Can't even settle a proper colony in the mouth of the Mississippi.
But I do look forward to seeing how Spain will deal with that area and if they can use it as a point of contention to eventually take the fight to the natives in northern New Spain
But I do look forward to seeing how Spain will deal with that area and if they can use it as a point of contention to eventually take the fight to the natives in northern New Spain
Well, someone has to discover the mouth from the outside first, because thus far Europeans only know how to find the mouth from within the river.
A colonial coast guard already exists, what Spain needs is a permanent colony of its own.
Thanks, I want y’all to learn along the way. But also, right now is a lot of build up. I’m estimating 4-5 more chapters before things ramp up significantly in terms of intensity. Already we see France getting anxious, the rest of Europe getting aggravated, and the Germans wanting to push more and more into the Ottoman Empire.