The Soviet Navy versus the [decimated] Imperial Japanese Navy


The Red Fleet's Intervention in the Sino-Japanese and Pacific Wars.

[Point of divergence is a Soviet victory at Warsaw in 1920 and a communist Germany. The timeline could be moved to the Writer's Forum if necessary. Other scenario could be an Allied-Soviet victory over Nazi Germany in 1944 at latest and a worse campaign for Japan after Germany's surrender, but slightly better beforehand.]
[For the WW2 option, here's the rough introduction to this scenario.]
17 September 1939: Planes from HMS Courageous sink U 29 before the submarine has an opportunity to sink the carrier.
April 1940: The German Navy is defeated decisively at Norway, losing 2 battleships, 2 heavy cruisers, 3 light cruisers and 10 destroyers. The British lose 2 battlecruisers, a battleship, 4 cruisers [including an air attack] and 10 destroyers sunk.
June 1940: HMS Glorious isn't sunk because of butterflies.
July 1940: The British attack on Mers El Kebir is butterflied away. Vichy French colonies would fall over the period of 1940-1941.
August: HMS Courageous is used to transport planes and stays in Force H. November: HMS Courageous and Illustrious sink 3 Italian battleships atTaranto. A successful Taranto enables Operation White to succeed.
December: Butterflies make Operation Compass slightly more successful.
January 1941: HMS Courageous prevents the damage inflicted on HMS Illustrious and HMS Eagle is sent to the South Atlantic earlier. HMS Formidable stays with Home Fleet .
March 1941: HMS Illustrious contributes more to the Italian debacle at Cape Matapan by sinking Vittorio Veneto. Afterwards, the carrier leaves the Mediterranean. In Yugoslavia, the coup of 26 March is butterflied by German threats, prolonging the Greek Campaign and enabling an evacuation of Greece.
May 1941: HMS Courageous provides air cover for cruisers off Crete. The Royal Navy losses off Crete are avoided or reduced. Meanwhile, butterflies result in the invasion of Crete failing or cancelled. [More battleships sunk reduces sea attack worries and extra planes reassure Freyberg that the Royal Navy in the Mediterranean reach Crete safely and shoot down paratroopers, perhaps diverting planes.]
June 1941: Meanwhile, back in the North Atlantic, HMS Hood, Prince of Wales, carriers Victorious and Formidable and cruisers and destroyers escorting encounter Bismarck, Tirpitz, Prinz Eugen and Graf Zeppelin. Battle of the Denmark Straits goes as in reality except for the carriers. [Major changes during the spring of 1940 would force the Germans to complete Graf Zeppelin and place Tirpitz in operation earlier.] In the battle, the Hood and Prince Of Wales are sunk, but Bismarck is damaged and Graf Zeppelin is sunk, although costing the British some planes from the air groups. The Bismarck is later crippled by HMS Ark Royal's Swordfish planes and sunk. [HMS King George V is sunk by aircraft.]
July: Hitler, angered by the loss of the navy, orders it to remain in port, the Baltic or go to the scrapyard. He had enough of wasting steel on the navy and wasting troops in the Mediterranean, which distracted him from the main goal of his ideology, Operation Barbarossa. Operation Barbarossa goes more or less as in reality. The Royal Navy launches a massive raid on the Italian Navy that sinks its remaining major ships for the loss of a carrier, 2 battleships [and another torpedoed], 7 cruisers and 18 destroyers; but the Italian surface fleet has been neutralised for good.
October 1941: Another anti-shipping raid costs the Royal Navy 1 battleship, 2 cruisers and 5 destroyers; but effectively isolates the Africa Corps, which would be forced to surrender in early 1942.
Winter 1941-1942: The Soviet winter offensive does slightly better and the Germans lose an army's worth of casualties. In 1942, isolated northern pockets fall because of butterflies.
Summer 1942: Although the German southern offensive does slightly better, it eventually stalls at Stalingrad. After Operation Uranus, the German 6th and 4th Panzer Armies break out in December 1942 and destroy themselves in the open.
November 1942: The Allies invade Sicily instead of North Africa and Italy surrenders by February 1943.
January 1943: The German Army Group South is cut off after Rostov falls and surrenders by March 1943. Leningrad is relieved by the spring of the year and the Germans retreat to Estonia while the Germans retreat to the Dneiper for want of troops.

July 1943: With the dwindling German strength in the east, there is no Kursk offensive. The Soviets defeat several German counterattacks and capture Kiev, pushing Germany out of the Ukraine by November.

December 1943: The Soviet invasion of Romania knocks the latter out of the war and pursues the Germans into Greece, Bulgaria and Yugoslavia. By April 1944, the Germans are out of the Balkans for good. The Germans retreat to avoid overextension of the front line, losing troops in the process.

May 1944: The Allies launch the Normandy landings while the Soviets destroy Army Group Centre in Operation Bagration and trap Army Group North, forcing its surrender in August. The Germans lose the 7th and 15th Armies at the same period while the Allied offensive in Italy reaches Austria.

September 1944: The Allies launch the final offensive into Germany and reach the Elbe by October. The Soviets' final offensive reaches Berlin by late November and WW2 ends on 8 December 1944.

[Is this chain of events suitable for the title?]
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
The Soviet fleet was virtually non-existent.

They had two Gangut class BB (1st Gen dreadnought, 26K tons, range under 5,000 km) that were effectively coastal defense ships and the Lend Lease Royal Sovereign along with a few cruisers and destroyers, almost all of them in the Baltic or Black Sea, and none of them having even 1/3 the range needed to even get to the Pacific. The Soviets had NO fleet train, none. Not one oiler listed in Jane's .

One-on-one the IJN of August 1, 1945 would almost certainly crush them. The IJN had the Nagato, which was an over-match for Royal Sovereign and would have eaten up the Ganguts for a light snack, 3 light cruisers and 30 destroyers, with Type 93 torpedoes still fully functional and battle ready. They even had a carrier force, of sorts, available in the Kumano Maru (an IJA aircraft transport that could launch up to 30 aircraft, although was not capable of landing them) and the Hosho (which had been converted to an aviation training ship with limited facilities). Considering the AAA suite on the Soviet ships even the older B5N and D3A, many of which were still in inventory to be used as Kamikazes would have been lethal even in the conventional role.
 
Could the Americans destroy more of the Imperial Japanese Navy in 1942-1944 and WW2 end in Europe earlier? And, is there any way to get more Soviet reparations and transfers [2 British battleships, one American, 1 German and one Italian]?
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
Could the Americans destroy more of the Imperial Japanese Navy in 1942-1944 and WW2 end in Europe earlier?

Against an actually functional modern navy the RN & USN had wiped out the IJN. What was left wasn't a threat to any force with a fully functional fleet carrier and up to date escorts. The issue is that the Soviets didn't have a modern fleet, they barely had a WW I squadron with a few modern additions.

I didn't even mention subs, but the Japanese had enough remaining I-boats to be a major threat to any force lacking proper air cover (the Indianapolis stands as a stark reminder of that fact).
 
Top