The Southern Roman Empire
- Thread starter Prefrence
- Start date
Thank you, anyway that's the best I can doA restart of this was more than i expected. Good so far.
I could not stop thinking how this Empire might go on and decided to share these thoughts.
Actually I am sure this ATL was quite plausible.
Chapter IX
The mutiny spread fast like a fire in the dry summer forest. It seemed that the Vandals were right - the Southern Roman Empire belonged to them. Soon most of the realm was out of Bonifacius' control.
The Romans (mostly Catholics) did not dare to stand up to Arian 'heretic' ferocious barbarians. The empire's soldiers of Roman origin were outnumbered, and, what the hell, new emperor Eusebius was a Roman after all, and a good general, they heard.
It appeared that the real power belonged to the new self-proclaimed Vandal king Godigisel. But he was wise enough to show some respect to 'his' emperor. And he even did his best to protect the Roman citizens of the Southern Roman Empire against his Vandals who felt like looting a little bit.
Emperor Bonifacius, who usually was so energetic seemed apathetic and lifeless. The other Roman Empires were not too hasty to react. First of all it was uncertain who the winner was. And when they saw that Bonifacius was going to loose they could not make up their mind was it good or bad.
The first to react were Visigoths - they moved to Southern Spain which was under Eusebius' control. They obviously took their chance to revenge. Eusebius had to move against them and was successful in a few skirmishes. It was good for his military prestige but Western Roman Empire felt threatened and instead of moving against Bonifacius he deepened into Hispania.
But the main mistake was made by king Godigisel, who stayed in Sicily most of the time - his soldiers caught and robbed a few Eastern Roman trade ships. And from these merchants Godigisel got a great news - Rome stayed unprotected; the few remaining forces were withdrawn from it for some reason.
He just could not resist the temptation - he gathered all his ships and was there in no time. Rome was plundered for a week and though there were few killed it was a vicious blow to Roman pride and self esteem. All the Romans got shocked - in the West, East and South.
That was the moment Bonifacius started to act. He seemed to have been waiting for something like that to happen.
He was not too forceless. He kept control over 3 000 Vandals which were his crack troops in the previous battles. These German infantry were best paid troops and they remained loyal to the Roman emperor. Actually they were like his guard and felt deeply attached to him personally. Bonifacius was charismatic and most important - brave in action, they just loved him. Maybe they felt some guilt for 'betraying' the other Vandals, but they didn't care.
Then he had 2 000 Alan horsemen, that was elite of his cavalry. They did not like the idea that some Vandal noble on the island of Sicily called himself "King of the Vandals and Alans". They did not need a king, they had their emperor, Bonifacius. That was enough. And moreover the Alans had some misunderstandings with the Vandals, they didn't trust each other too much.
There were not too many 'Roman' troops at hand at Bonifacius' camp (just a few thousand of dubious quality), but there was a hope that the other soldiers of Roman origin on the rebels' territory would leave usurper Eusebius, a puppet of the Barbarian Arian Schismatic Vandals and they would be happy to embrace their righteous emperor Bonifacius.
The mutiny spread fast like a fire in the dry summer forest. It seemed that the Vandals were right - the Southern Roman Empire belonged to them. Soon most of the realm was out of Bonifacius' control.
The Romans (mostly Catholics) did not dare to stand up to Arian 'heretic' ferocious barbarians. The empire's soldiers of Roman origin were outnumbered, and, what the hell, new emperor Eusebius was a Roman after all, and a good general, they heard.
It appeared that the real power belonged to the new self-proclaimed Vandal king Godigisel. But he was wise enough to show some respect to 'his' emperor. And he even did his best to protect the Roman citizens of the Southern Roman Empire against his Vandals who felt like looting a little bit.
Emperor Bonifacius, who usually was so energetic seemed apathetic and lifeless. The other Roman Empires were not too hasty to react. First of all it was uncertain who the winner was. And when they saw that Bonifacius was going to loose they could not make up their mind was it good or bad.
The first to react were Visigoths - they moved to Southern Spain which was under Eusebius' control. They obviously took their chance to revenge. Eusebius had to move against them and was successful in a few skirmishes. It was good for his military prestige but Western Roman Empire felt threatened and instead of moving against Bonifacius he deepened into Hispania.
But the main mistake was made by king Godigisel, who stayed in Sicily most of the time - his soldiers caught and robbed a few Eastern Roman trade ships. And from these merchants Godigisel got a great news - Rome stayed unprotected; the few remaining forces were withdrawn from it for some reason.
He just could not resist the temptation - he gathered all his ships and was there in no time. Rome was plundered for a week and though there were few killed it was a vicious blow to Roman pride and self esteem. All the Romans got shocked - in the West, East and South.
That was the moment Bonifacius started to act. He seemed to have been waiting for something like that to happen.
He was not too forceless. He kept control over 3 000 Vandals which were his crack troops in the previous battles. These German infantry were best paid troops and they remained loyal to the Roman emperor. Actually they were like his guard and felt deeply attached to him personally. Bonifacius was charismatic and most important - brave in action, they just loved him. Maybe they felt some guilt for 'betraying' the other Vandals, but they didn't care.
Then he had 2 000 Alan horsemen, that was elite of his cavalry. They did not like the idea that some Vandal noble on the island of Sicily called himself "King of the Vandals and Alans". They did not need a king, they had their emperor, Bonifacius. That was enough. And moreover the Alans had some misunderstandings with the Vandals, they didn't trust each other too much.
There were not too many 'Roman' troops at hand at Bonifacius' camp (just a few thousand of dubious quality), but there was a hope that the other soldiers of Roman origin on the rebels' territory would leave usurper Eusebius, a puppet of the Barbarian Arian Schismatic Vandals and they would be happy to embrace their righteous emperor Bonifacius.
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So thanks for reviving a perfectly good timeline, Russian.
I have to ask though, do you feel all this sudden drama--Eusebius's uprising (honestly I forget if you are carrying that forward from the already established timeline) but also Bonifacius moving the capital away from Carthage--emerged naturally from events as they were shaping up, or did it just seem like time to stir something up?
I'd have to go back and read the past few pages to see whether it would all seem to make sense, in retrospect. As I recalled, Bonifacius was doing well because he was able to patch together diverse peoples without them cutting loose like this.
It's all very well that now he might be able to prevail against the rebel Vandals. But by losing them in the first place, he's left a lot weaker. So are his Imperial rivals--well, the Eastern Emperor seems to be sitting pretty at the moment. I'd worry about him swooping down on one or the other of his rivals to the west; even if he decides to take back select parts of the NW Empire first, that would leave him stronger. Presumably he'll take control of Rome if Bonifacius can't get there first, and that will make Bonifacius look weaker.
So it's a mess, and I'm wondering why you felt it was inevitable at this juncture for him to suffer this dramatic setback.
And it makes the timing of his moving the capital look poor, and that highlights the question in my mind, why move it at all? Carthage is an ancient and honorable seat of power.
Does his move south of the Atlas Mountains signify that he's developing a strong bond with the native desert people there? That could make up for a lot of other damage, if he can induce them into being Imperial loyalists.
But however much I do think South Rome should develop desert power, I also think they should keep a firm grip on the fertile lands north of the mountains, and on sea power, and regain as much control in Iberia as they can.
Italy is not worth breaking their backs over, being torn up and contested by so many vultures, but if he can step in there easily and hold it without tying down too much of his forces, then the prestige of successfully protecting Rome will surely count for something.
It's tougher for him now though, with Vandals formerly answering to him having looted the place. He has a lot of explaining to do, to win over Romans (the kind who actually live in Rome, I mean!)
I have to ask though, do you feel all this sudden drama--Eusebius's uprising (honestly I forget if you are carrying that forward from the already established timeline) but also Bonifacius moving the capital away from Carthage--emerged naturally from events as they were shaping up, or did it just seem like time to stir something up?
I'd have to go back and read the past few pages to see whether it would all seem to make sense, in retrospect. As I recalled, Bonifacius was doing well because he was able to patch together diverse peoples without them cutting loose like this.
It's all very well that now he might be able to prevail against the rebel Vandals. But by losing them in the first place, he's left a lot weaker. So are his Imperial rivals--well, the Eastern Emperor seems to be sitting pretty at the moment. I'd worry about him swooping down on one or the other of his rivals to the west; even if he decides to take back select parts of the NW Empire first, that would leave him stronger. Presumably he'll take control of Rome if Bonifacius can't get there first, and that will make Bonifacius look weaker.
So it's a mess, and I'm wondering why you felt it was inevitable at this juncture for him to suffer this dramatic setback.
And it makes the timing of his moving the capital look poor, and that highlights the question in my mind, why move it at all? Carthage is an ancient and honorable seat of power.
Does his move south of the Atlas Mountains signify that he's developing a strong bond with the native desert people there? That could make up for a lot of other damage, if he can induce them into being Imperial loyalists.
But however much I do think South Rome should develop desert power, I also think they should keep a firm grip on the fertile lands north of the mountains, and on sea power, and regain as much control in Iberia as they can.
Italy is not worth breaking their backs over, being torn up and contested by so many vultures, but if he can step in there easily and hold it without tying down too much of his forces, then the prestige of successfully protecting Rome will surely count for something.
It's tougher for him now though, with Vandals formerly answering to him having looted the place. He has a lot of explaining to do, to win over Romans (the kind who actually live in Rome, I mean!)
Thanks for the feedback. I'll try to answer all your questions, but I am afraid I won't make it in one post - I am in a hurry a little bit.
I am not carrying Eusebius's uprising from the already established timeline. In Prefrence' time line everything was just fine for Southern Roman emperor Bonifacius.
He had his realm 'with sugar on top':
- all his enemies outside were defeated.
- all his generals were dog-like loyal.
- the Arian Vandals were happy to fight and die for the Catholic Southern Roman empire and let the Romans enjoy all the benefits of their victory and pleasures of the peace.
- the Vandals became Roman patriots all of a sudden and forgot that they used to have a king of their own, that they were a German tribe with strong sense of their distinct 'ethnicity'.
That was just too good to be true...
you know, at first glance it seemed that you inserted needless drama, but you are right, things had been going a bit too good for the southern roman empire.
The capital was moved before the uprising.
As I previously confessed it was not my idea. I 'stole' it from some other guy from OTL - Gregory the Patrician who declared the independence of Exarchate of Africa from the Eastern Roman Empire and proclaimed himself Emperor of Africa in the 7-th century A.D. and made Sufetula his capital to avoid effective Byzantine retaliation and to be closer to his Amazigh/Berber allies.
I reckoned he knew what he was doing.
Yes, something like that.
Actually Bonifacius didn’t expect the Vandals’ mutiny, but he needed Amazigh/Berber tribesmen to counterbalance these high-and-mighty Germans.
*one more picture of today's Sufetula:
Arrix85, thank you!
.
I mean I can believe that some defeated German tribe (beaten by Romans in a war) was settled within the Roman Empire and afterwards 'merged or dissolved'. But if the Germans are not beaten by the Empire and more than that - they feel stronger (read 'superior') than them:
- they would definitely keep their distinct 'national' identity for a very long time.
And when I read that in Prefrence's TL Bonifacius didn't like the idea of Arian Christians getting high posts in his Empire and when I did not see Vandal's names among top rank in the army I said:
- Bonifacius has it coming! (I mean rebellion.)
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So, the idea of Southern Roman Empire proposed by Prefrence in this TL was (very roughly):
- the Vandals fight and die for the Empire
- the Romans rule the Empire
And all live together like a big happy family.
That would never work. The 'nation' which is stronger will have all the power in the Empire. It's a nature of things...
Thanks, and moreover, uprising is not much of a 'drama' for Roman empire(s) of that period. Nothing extraordinary. That was quite a usual thing, routine, I'd say
.That was the idea which I did not like in Prefrence's TL. When I heard him saying about the Vandals and the Romans 'merging together eventually' or the 'Vandals somehow dissolved' in the Empire - I at once thought: "I don't buy it!". That would never happen.
I mean I can believe that some defeated German tribe (beaten by Romans in a war) was settled within the Roman Empire and afterwards 'merged or dissolved'. But if the Germans are not beaten by the Empire and more than that - they feel stronger (read 'superior') than them:
- they would definitely keep their distinct 'national' identity for a very long time.
And when I read that in Prefrence's TL Bonifacius didn't like the idea of Arian Christians getting high posts in his Empire and when I did not see Vandal's names among top rank in the army I said:
- Bonifacius has it coming! (I mean rebellion.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, the idea of Southern Roman Empire proposed by Prefrence in this TL was (very roughly):
- the Vandals fight and die for the Empire
- the Romans rule the Empire
And all live together like a big happy family.
That would never work. The 'nation' which is stronger will have all the power in the Empire. It's a nature of things...
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Arrix85, thank you!
Thanks, and moreover, uprising is not much of a 'drama' for Roman empire(s) of that period. Nothing extraordinary. That was quite a usual thing, routine, I'd say
That was the idea which I did not like in Prefrence's TL. When I heard him saying about the Vandals and the Romans 'merging together eventually' or the 'Vandals somehow dissolved' in the Empire - I at once thought: "I don't buy it!". That would never happen.
I mean I can believe that some defeated German tribe (beaten by Romans in a war) was settled within the Roman Empire and afterwards 'merged or dissolved'. But if the Germans are not beaten by the Empire and more than that - they feel stronger (read 'superior') than them:
- they would definitely keep their distinct 'national' identity for a very long time.
And when I read that in Prefrence's TL Bonifacius didn't like the idea of Arian Christians getting high posts in his Empire and when I did not see Vandal's names among top rank in the army I said:
- Bonifacius has it coming! (I mean rebellion.)
Yes, I daresay you are going for realism here that was probably lacking. Nothing like this happened OTL, probably for very good reasons, so a rather ASB disregard for probability was happening.
The devil is in the details; the original author can tell me a particular leader is a paragon of astuteness and a leader men rally round--certainly such leaders have existed in history, why not this guy? Well, it all depends on just what he does. I was probably skimming for stuff I thought was interesting, like the notion of a Roman-based society moving into dominating the Sahara, and nodding off at casual mentions and not doing all the math.
I do think Vandals or the like might be positively integrated--I would not say "no way, I'll never buy it!" But you are dead right, if Bonifacius was going to do that he'd better be creating mixed bodies at all levels of power, and yet trying to do that would have its own hazards. The previous author had to show us the fire Bonifacius was playing with and show us examples of his skill in doing so without getting burned; it would not do to say "and they all got along just fine" without showing how likely conflicts got resolved.
And simple probability is on the side of Bonifacius failing, and the notion of a Southern Roman Empire vanishing from history like so many other chimeras. It's very tricky to show realistic problems arising, and show our hero failing to anticipate them, and then have him succeed after such epic failure. But history has examples of that kind of thing too, so it can be done.
One question would be, what has Bonifacius learned? He could learn many contradictory things from these episodes--only a few possibilities can lead to success though.
So I look forward to seeing how the Southern Empire survives and where it goes. And maybe it won't be Bonifacius who saves it?
Chapter 10
The story of suppressing 'the Great Revolt' is renowned. But my intention here is not to describe all the happenings day by day.
I will not give you the detailed map of the battle near the town of Chullu were the fate of Africa hung on a hair and only the suicidal cavalry charge of the Allans headed personally by Emperor Bonifacius saved the day. Here Bonifacius lost his eye and his leg was stabbed with a spear, the wound which never fully recovered and he severely suffered from it till the end of his days.
There were bitter setbacks when 8 000 Bonifacius’s infantry (mainly fresh conscripts of Roman origin) flew from the field of battle. Only superiority of Bonifacius in cavalry prevented the total annihilation of the Romans, now it was 6 000 Berber horsemen who stopped the deadly attack of the Vandals of king Godigisel and let the Romans retreat to their fortified camp. The next day emperor Bonifacius revived the good old Roman tradition of decimation – one tenth of the Romans were brutally executed in front of the army. Caesar (Bonifacius) put his Vandal guard among the Romans, he himself joined them on foot and solemnly swore that no matter what he would never draw back from this field of battle and they might leave their emperor to the enemy. The hot African sun roasted the second day of battle. In the evening the enemy exhausted to death slowly gave ground.
I will mention only the crucial events and the things which are important to understand the further development of the Southern Roman Empire. The Vandals with the centre in Sicily were like a loose cannon in the Mediterranean, robbing all the ships and plundering coastal regions. At the moment they presented more danger than Bonifacius. So the Southern Roman emperor allied with the Eastern Roman empire – he returned them Lybia Superior and Lybia Inferior, which they had to fight back themselves from the hands of rebels. The forces of the Western Roman Empire headed by Aetius looking for retribution landed in Sicily and though they were not too successful they distracted the Vandals from Africa. The Visigoths finally drove usurper Eusebius out of Hispania.
The first success of Bonifacius was when he took Carthage. The head of the garrison there was an old respected Vandal noble Visimar. Bonifacius offered him the crown of the ‘king of the Vandals’ and the old man could not resist it – he joined Emperor Bonifacius. One of the doubtful and risky measures of Bonifacius was conscription of 10 000 young Romans to his army. Fresh inexperienced soldiers were just a burden and even his closest counselors disapproved it. But in the end of this war these boys even managed to earn some fame to everyone’s surprise. Maybe it was because Caesar gave them his best warriors as officers and ‘seargents’ and he carefully preserved them.
Now it is a common knowledge that this war was won due to Bonifacius’s allies – tribal horsemen from the South - Amazigh/Berbers. Bonifacius being a widower married a daughter of the most influential Berber king. That was a great honor to the Berber. The allied Berber forces reached 8 000 in number sometimes.
The story of suppressing 'the Great Revolt' is renowned. But my intention here is not to describe all the happenings day by day.
I will not give you the detailed map of the battle near the town of Chullu were the fate of Africa hung on a hair and only the suicidal cavalry charge of the Allans headed personally by Emperor Bonifacius saved the day. Here Bonifacius lost his eye and his leg was stabbed with a spear, the wound which never fully recovered and he severely suffered from it till the end of his days.
There were bitter setbacks when 8 000 Bonifacius’s infantry (mainly fresh conscripts of Roman origin) flew from the field of battle. Only superiority of Bonifacius in cavalry prevented the total annihilation of the Romans, now it was 6 000 Berber horsemen who stopped the deadly attack of the Vandals of king Godigisel and let the Romans retreat to their fortified camp. The next day emperor Bonifacius revived the good old Roman tradition of decimation – one tenth of the Romans were brutally executed in front of the army. Caesar (Bonifacius) put his Vandal guard among the Romans, he himself joined them on foot and solemnly swore that no matter what he would never draw back from this field of battle and they might leave their emperor to the enemy. The hot African sun roasted the second day of battle. In the evening the enemy exhausted to death slowly gave ground.
I will mention only the crucial events and the things which are important to understand the further development of the Southern Roman Empire. The Vandals with the centre in Sicily were like a loose cannon in the Mediterranean, robbing all the ships and plundering coastal regions. At the moment they presented more danger than Bonifacius. So the Southern Roman emperor allied with the Eastern Roman empire – he returned them Lybia Superior and Lybia Inferior, which they had to fight back themselves from the hands of rebels. The forces of the Western Roman Empire headed by Aetius looking for retribution landed in Sicily and though they were not too successful they distracted the Vandals from Africa. The Visigoths finally drove usurper Eusebius out of Hispania.
The first success of Bonifacius was when he took Carthage. The head of the garrison there was an old respected Vandal noble Visimar. Bonifacius offered him the crown of the ‘king of the Vandals’ and the old man could not resist it – he joined Emperor Bonifacius. One of the doubtful and risky measures of Bonifacius was conscription of 10 000 young Romans to his army. Fresh inexperienced soldiers were just a burden and even his closest counselors disapproved it. But in the end of this war these boys even managed to earn some fame to everyone’s surprise. Maybe it was because Caesar gave them his best warriors as officers and ‘seargents’ and he carefully preserved them.
Now it is a common knowledge that this war was won due to Bonifacius’s allies – tribal horsemen from the South - Amazigh/Berbers. Bonifacius being a widower married a daughter of the most influential Berber king. That was a great honor to the Berber. The allied Berber forces reached 8 000 in number sometimes.
Yes, first he restored Limes Tripolitana and then conquered the Garamantes.
The Garamantes already had been partially conquered by Septimius Severus for some time.
Seems Bonifacius managed to use the berbers well, lets hope he manages to keep them satisfied and loyal.
That's a map from our TL.
The art depicting chariots and supposed routes through Sahara - these are the population before the Berbers.
The surviving remnant from them are the Garamantes. They were supposed to perish in 6 cent. AD but Bonifacius saved them in this ATL.
The Garamantes had surprisingly developed agriculture using underground irrigation system and slave labor in oasises. It was an established trade route through Sahara which the Southern Roman Empire controlled now in this ATL. They got gold, slaves, ivory, ostrich feathers some precious stones and the like from sub-Saharan Africa and could spread Christianity further South.
The art depicting chariots and supposed routes through Sahara - these are the population before the Berbers.
The surviving remnant from them are the Garamantes. They were supposed to perish in 6 cent. AD but Bonifacius saved them in this ATL.
The Garamantes had surprisingly developed agriculture using underground irrigation system and slave labor in oasises. It was an established trade route through Sahara which the Southern Roman Empire controlled now in this ATL. They got gold, slaves, ivory, ostrich feathers some precious stones and the like from sub-Saharan Africa and could spread Christianity further South.
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Interesting continuation. So anyone think Rome will expand to all of Africa? Or be able to stop the Umayyids?
That is something from OTL:
The Roman Empire already expanded South to Desertum Africanum in this direction.
Septimius Severus defeated the Garamantean Empire in 2 cent. A.D.,
but then the Romans were not too much interested in keeping it.
By the way during this war the Romans had the advantage over the people of Sahara
- they successfully used camels (dromedaries) in an African war for the first time.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
There were hundreds of fortified farms (centenarium) on the desert border especially in Limes Tripolitana
where the Roman soldiers very successfully combined military border service and oasis agriculture.
Some of the centenaria were three-storied buildings with stone walls two meters wide.
These are the remnants of OTL Roman military fortified farms:
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
So, in OTL the Romans had everything to make their move to Sahara.
And what is more important - to hold it.
They were able to build a lot of fortified farms and to make them even better
using advanced Garamantean technique of desert land cultivation (underground irrigation).
There was no Garamantean empire any more, but these people remembered
being incorporated in a single state which might help.
The Roman Empire already expanded South to Desertum Africanum in this direction.
Septimius Severus defeated the Garamantean Empire in 2 cent. A.D.,
but then the Romans were not too much interested in keeping it.
By the way during this war the Romans had the advantage over the people of Sahara
- they successfully used camels (dromedaries) in an African war for the first time.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
There were hundreds of fortified farms (centenarium) on the desert border especially in Limes Tripolitana
where the Roman soldiers very successfully combined military border service and oasis agriculture.
Some of the centenaria were three-storied buildings with stone walls two meters wide.
These are the remnants of OTL Roman military fortified farms:
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
So, in OTL the Romans had everything to make their move to Sahara.
And what is more important - to hold it.
They were able to build a lot of fortified farms and to make them even better
using advanced Garamantean technique of desert land cultivation (underground irrigation).
There was no Garamantean empire any more, but these people remembered
being incorporated in a single state which might help.
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