The South Wins the Civil War: Effects on Canada?

[Dean_the_Young]

Not that significant or easy to mine. It was this that drove US industrialisation.

You've shown that link before, but when I read it all I see is another iron producing region in the US that has the convenience to be ready to ship to processing by water. I see no claims that it was the primary provider, a majority provider, or even the largest of minority sources of iron. I see no claims in the notoriously whimsical wiki that it was even responsible for industrialization. Where's the claim that it was more than all the other iron-producing regions of the US? Where's the claim that is somehow easier to mine, rather than easier to ship? Wiki sure isn't making them.

And really, I'm going to require facts to believe some person's claim that a single source was mandatory for the industrialization for a entire country as widespread as the US. Why would the other sources have been developed if one already supplied all the needs? What would change in the economic formula that states you don't start something unless there's a market, which must have been the case if there are major iron mines developed across the country and even in the same region?

I'd be interested as to what makes you think one single source (not even entirely removed by the border change) was responsible for a nation-wide phenomenom, but it's going to take far more than a single source. Data on how much of the Iron Range's metal supplied compared to the rest of the country's output would be a start. How much it sent to the North (as opposed to how much the South sent) would also be good, but how about outside of the Lakes region? New England? The Middle cost? The south, where iron from the North was actually cheaper only because of the train tricks robber barons pulled?

Besides, moving iron north of the border doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If it really was so massive and critical as you say, there would be far too much of it to be taken solely by Canada, and then the main barrier between it being sold straight to the US is the tariff barrier, which is in itself a very negotiable thing.

 

[DuQuense]

1863
CS wins Battle of Gettysburg.
As the defeated AoP retreats towards Washington, the ANV follows.
At the battle of Rockville the AoP is only prevented from Collapse by the addition of new troops from D.C..
Lee and the ANV slip across at Whites Ferry back to Virginia

The Defeat, Retreat, Defeat, & Destruction of Rockville only 20 miles from D.C. is played up, to the point that many northerners believe the war to be all by lost.

1864
The AoP under it's new Commander -Grant- at the Battle of the Wilderness, completes the discenergration of the AoP began by the Two Defeats the previous Year.
Most of the soldiers believe they can't win, and so they don't, the subiquent Battles in 1864, seem to do no more than confirm this dismal self image.
The Papers spread this to others. and when everything comes together, with the defeat of Sherman in Northern Geogia, McCellan Wins.

1865
In McCellan's Inaugural Address he Talked about the need to carry the war to Victory.
However the Fire was there, many in the North believed the war to be all but lost, And no Major Attacks were launched in the northern theatre.
In the west the CS concentrated on regaining the Mississippi.

By August both Sides were politically exhausted, and the Cease fire negotiations began in Madrid.

1866
while the Peace treaty had declared the Mississippi a open River, The State of Louisiana, imposed major port Fees in an attempt to gain funds for rebuilding.
Northern Interests that had hoped to regain cheap shipping down the river allowing the end of the Elgin-Marcy Treaty, changed their position.
The treaty was renewed for 10 years.
Anti union with Canada Forces in Nova Scotia and new Brunswick win Elections.

1867
Northern Business interests begin funding a major rebuilding of the Erie Canal, and at the same time, An expansion of the great lakes/St Lawrence Canal systems.

New Brunswick, Nova Scotia , Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland Petition London to form the Maritime federation.
Canada [Quebec-Ontario] petition to form Dominion of Canada.

1871
British Columbia joins Canada.

1872
The expansion of St Lawrence Trade, combined whit the expansion of the Railroads has killed the Erie Rebuilding Attempt.
While New York will continue as a the major Financial and Commercial Centre. The Centre of Trade has moved north to the St Lawrence.
Montreal will compete with Chicago, [or vice versa- depending on country]

1875
the US, the MF and Canada enter negotiations to renew the Elgin-Marcy Treaty.

1876
the North America Few Tariff Act, is passed by the three legislatures,and goes into effect for 25 years.

1877
the CSA buys Baja California from The Empire of Mexico.

1885
Major Epidemic in Chicago, due to a storm mixing Sewerage and Drinking water in the Lake

1886
Chicago begins construction of the Ship and Sanitary Canal linking lake Michigan and the Mississippi River.
The Ship Canal is planned to be, 28 miles (45 kilometers) long, 202 feet (62 meters) wide, and 24 feet (7.3 meters) deep.
Construction of the Ship and Sanitary Canal Will be the largest earth-moving operation undertaken in North America up to that time.
It will also be notable for training a generation of engineers, many of whom later worked on the Nicaragua Canal, [1896] and the St Lawrence Seaway [1903]

1889
Panic of '89
The CSA in trouble over the high Tariffs with the US and Britain applies to join the NAFTA

1891
Empire of Mexico captures the last holdout of the Jarez Faction.

1896
Construction of the Nicaragua Canal begins.

1901
Cuban wins Independence.

1903
Construction of the St Lawrence Seaway begins.

Cuba approachs The MF and Mexico Approaches Canada, for sponsorship in the NAFTA.

1905
Japanese/Russian War
Japan Attacks Russian Alaska. Canada protests as a violation of the Monroe Doctrine.
Russia to prevent japan taking Alaska sells it to Canada.

1912
Labrador joins the MF.


North America at the start of the Great War

 

[Dan1988]

GGAAAHHH!!!!

WHY is it that Nunavut always shows up on pre-1999 maps? Nunavut didn't exist until 1999!

 

[PaleHorseRiding]

Because this is an ATL who knows if its even called nunavut or what would have happend with the provinces and territories

 

[Dan1988]

Because this is an ATL who knows if its even called nunavut or what would have happend with the provinces and territories

Well just remember in future that if you are doing a pre-1999 map, do not - I repeat, do not - have Nunavut show up.

 

[Lord Insane]

Well just remember in future that if you are doing a pre-1999 map, do not - I repeat, do not - have Nunavut show up.

Well, it might be possibly to create a TL where Nunavut appears earlier... but it is highly unlikely that that TL would be 'the CSA wins, the Union loses'.

 

[Grimm Reaper]

How about this addition to DuQ's timeline?

1892: In an event later justified as helping to affirm the loyalties of the Native American population Canada establishes a new territory later renamed 'Nunavut'. In reality absolutely no one has the slightest idea how this happened, who slipped it in the bill passed, why no one ever tried to reverse it, etc.

 

[Zyzzyva]

Also, why the regular-shaped other provinces? Quebec taking up all of Ungava was pretty much inevitable, but it didn't happen OTL til 1912; the ontario-manitoba border is rather happenstance, and Alberta/Saskatchewan could be any from 1 to 4 provinces.

...Unless you're not Canadaian, in which case, congratulations for including us!