The South leads the ARW in 1833?

Premise:

The American Revolutionary War is still born in 1775, assume Bunker Hill was a rout with the colonial militia breaking in the first assault and being severely defeated with Howe following up and also inflicting a defeat on Washington.

The premise is that the Revolutionary War was a damp squib leaving the resentful American colonies under military rule for the most part.

The French still undergo some form of revolution in the 1790's which results in an ongoing Anglo-French war which stalemates by 1807.

In the meantime.........

The abolitionists in the UK still gain ground resulting in the Slave Trade Act of 1807. Deeply resented by the South in particular there are continuing actions between "American" slave ships and the British anti-slavery patrols.

By 1833 (as good a year as any) the final abolition of the Slave Trade is passed into law. For many years an unholy alliance between New England liberals and Southern plantation owners has been growing. The colonies erupt into rebellion.

What happens next?

Would the colonies gain independence and how would the slavery question be handled?

Could the British divide and conquer the disparate American factions or would the result be a compromise?
 
It would'nt happen basically.

The South was among the most Loyay parts of the United States, additionally Slavery did not become a major issue that people were willing to fight to defend until the 1840's, and that was itself the a result of the way American political culture had evolved by that point; several Southern states actually had considered abolishing slavery in the 1810-1825 period for example.
 

Dirk_Pitt

Banned
It would'nt happen basically.

The South was among the most Loyay parts of the United States, additionally Slavery did not become a major issue that people were willing to fight to defend until the 1840's, and that was itself the a result of the way American political culture had evolved by that point; several Southern states actually had considered abolishing slavery in the 1810-1825 period for example.

For example Virginia in 1831-32.

Didn't know there were others though.
 
It would'nt happen basically.

The South was among the most Loyay parts of the United States, additionally Slavery did not become a major issue that people were willing to fight to defend until the 1840's, and that was itself the a result of the way American political culture had evolved by that point; several Southern states actually had considered abolishing slavery in the 1810-1825 period for example.

Slavery wasn't an issue because the North compromised to maintain the institution in the South. Here the UK will force the South/ slave states to free the slaves. Ok the slaves lives may not be radically different based on the Carribean experience but the immediate impact on the plantation owners would be severe


If the common enemy was an abolitionist UK then the North would seek independence on the basis of liberal ideology for all whilst the South could add economic ruin (but can we keep the slaves please). Both parties would have genuine greivances but the North and UK would want the South to free the slaves whilst the North and the South would want UK out of their hair.
 
It would'nt happen basically.

The South was among the most Loyay parts of the United States, additionally Slavery did not become a major issue that people were willing to fight to defend until the 1840's, and that was itself the a result of the way American political culture had evolved by that point; several Southern states actually had considered abolishing slavery in the 1810-1825 period for example.


Slavery was a big issue in teh Revolution, actually; the southerners were terrified that Britain would abolish it, or use their slaves to crush their revolt.
 
If the common enemy was an abolitionist UK then the North would seek independence on the basis of liberal ideology for all whilst the South could add economic ruin (but can we keep the slaves please). Both parties would have genuine greivances but the North and UK would want the South to free the slaves whilst the North and the South would want UK out of their hair.

The Revolution was'nt even initially popular in the North, it was only when Britain cracked down in response and it looked like the Revolutionaries might win that they received large scale popular support; in a scenario where the Revolution was crushed the general public is not going to support another one so soon, especially for a cause they opposed or were neutral to and did'nt affect them.
 
The French still undergo some form of revolution in the 1790's which results in an ongoing Anglo-French war which stalemates by 1807.

What? The American revolutionary wars bankrupted the Kingdom of France, and that bankruptcy was the direct trigger of the French Revolution; they also caused lots of Frenchmen to return home full of ideas of republicanism from the people they had been fighting beside. How is the French Revolution going to happen, then?

For many years an unholy alliance between New England liberals and Southern plantation owners has been growing. The colonies erupt into rebellion.

How? They have virtually opposite ideological goals, and over time Northern abolitionism is only likely to grow stronger, not weaker. If the Southerners rebel explicitly because of slavery, the Northerners are likelier to fight them than join them.

Pro-representation ideology can appeal to the South. Pro-slavery ideology cannot appeal to the North, which was full of Puritans who had very low opinions of slavery. Hence, any revolution that encompasses both the North and the South cannot be based on slavery but must rather be based instead on representation.

Indeed, putting slavery on the side of American independence and abolitionism on the side of Britain is a great gift to British imperialism, since it ensures that Britain will keep the loyalty of the American North at least for as long as slavery is still a major issue.
 
I think it is more likely that New England and New York would want to stay British. They were already highly-integrated economically with England in the 1770's and in the war of 1812, some in New England talked about breaking away from the US because the war was bad for trade. So imagine a world where the Empire stayed together another 55 years.

I could see the south breaking away over Slavery, but the North remaining loyal. Britain deploys northern American regiments to put down the Southerners. The South would lose and the divide between Yankee and Dixie would be wider than ever.
 
A British Empire that retains the whole North American colonial area is going to be incredibly different from our OTL British Empire. I don't think you'll see abolition in 1833 and definitely not in the same way.
 
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