The Sound of Music?

POD: 1816-7, Robert Stirling's engine is fitted into a workable automobile (by another name...), & subsequently buses. Naturally, highways develop. How does improved mobility impact the evolution of music in the U.S.? I picture early creation of jazz (under another name?) & honky-tonk (in roadhouses which follows from highways). Other ideas? And who are the 19th Century stars?
 
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I can't see how you would have an earlier creation of jazz, I suspect jazz may not happen in your TL--In OTL, jazz emerged in New Orleans after the introduction of "Jim Crow" segregation to Louisiana. Before that there were various degrees of blackness, "creoles" did not consider themselves the equal of blacks with little or no white ancestry, but their superiors. But after the coming of "Jim Crow" laws, all these groups were more-or-less merged together, which meant that their musical styles were merged together creating jazz.

I would also guess that these roadhouses would play something quite different from "honky-tonk" music, and I doubt they would even be called honky-tonks. Although some of the characteristics of "honky-tonk" music do come from the fact that the pianos were not well cared for, those characteristics might just develop into this whatever-this-music-is-called.

But kudos for thinking about how a different technology might lead to differences in popular music!

Don't overlook the effect of cars, buses, highways on the "westward expansion". On of the things that was going on in OTL is that there was a race to claim territory for slavery or for being free. Better transportation it seems to me would just exacerbate this, maybe leading to an earlier Civil War.
 
Thanks. My thought was, the cultural & musical intermixing of minstrel/black, German/Polish, & early Country/Western (I can never keep straight which were the "tumblin' tumbleweeds" & which were the "she done me wrong":mad: :p) lead to what we call rag, jazz, & blues. They wouldn't sound exactly the same, or be called exactly the same, but they'd be equivalent. I do wonder if R&R even develops; it seems to me, some specific threads have to come together for that. I also thought, ITTL, there'd be stronger Latin/Caribbean/calypso influence that might replace R&R, or beat it to the punch, in effect.

I haven't forgotten the effect on westward expansion. I'm also using stirling-powered airships, so it'd be fast. And between airships & cars, I thought there'd be a) an early "FBI", to deal with interstate escapes/crimes leading to b) much more frontier law & order (more like Canada than the U.S.) & c) no Indian Wars.

I have some doubts about introducing railways. As it stands, railways develop a bit late, because highways & airports dominate from 1830 or so, & only into the 1930s TTL do railways begin to take long-distance freight/travel away from highways, as cheaper, more efficient, &/or faster, as trains get fast (125mph+). (By the 1970s TTL, they're maglevs doing near Mach 1.)

Oh, and the CW: given machinery, I'd expect it not to happen at all...which leads to the survival of slavery in law, but more/less not in practise, except in isolated circumstances. Slavecatching still survives into the 1910s, but it's rare, & demand is low.
 
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So I guess your idea is that the plantations become automated, and slaveowners realize that machinery is more efficient than slaves?

What happens to the slaves? What do the slaveowners do with their "property"?

Why no Indian Wars?

Remember that the invention that is necessary for Rock & Roll is the electric guitar. The electric guitar allowed the guitar to actually be heard in a band, before this the guitar just sort of blended into the background.

KEVP
 
POD: 1816-7, Robert Stirling's engine is fitted into a workable automobile (by another name...), & subsequently buses. Naturally, highways develop. How does improved mobility impact the evolution of music in the U.S.? I picture early creation of jazz (under another name?) & honky-tonk (in roadhouses which follows from highways). Other ideas? And who are the 19th Century stars?

An interesting POD, but how exactly would the adoption of the Stirling engine in self-propelled carriages hasten the advent of the motor car? To my knowledge, in the early years the Stirling engine's main advantage to steam was safety. I understand that the problems in using it for travelling purposes would be the same as with steam, namely a poor power-to-weight ratio and the advanced skills and materials needed for successful miniaturization. Could you or someone else in the know tell me if a Stirling engine could, by the 1830s-40s, plausibly become more light and powerful and as portable as, say, a steam engine with Walter Hancock's tubular boiler? If not, I guess railways would likely win the contest pretty much in the same fashion as they did OTL.

One have to also consider the need to develop many new features for the vehicle like a workable transmission, suspension, steering and wheels strong enough. All these proved to be great obstacles to the early pioneers of steam road locomotion.
 
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So I guess your idea is that the plantations become automated, and slaveowners realize that machinery is more efficient than slaves?
What happens to the slaves? What do the slaveowners do with their "property"?

That's the idea. My thought is, most slaves are sold off further west, or simply freed, because they're simply uneconomic anymore. Machines don't need to be housed, or fed, or kept healthy, or chased... Think of the South in the '30s & '40s.

Follow that with black migration into Chicago, St Lou, L.A., Detroit, NYC, & elsewhere, & you get the diffusion of musical styles I was relying on to see the creation of jazz &c.

Why no Indian Wars?

First, fast transportation means fast settlement. Second, it means law enforcement is essential, & able to rapidly follow settlers & keep them in line. My model is Canada & RCMP, where much the same happened (more slowly, admitted).

Remember that the invention that is necessary for Rock & Roll is the electric guitar. The electric guitar allowed the guitar to actually be heard in a band, before this the guitar just sort of blended into the background.

I'm thinking of R&R as a musical style, not as a performance art as such, a blend of blues & country.

An interesting POD, but how exactly would the adoption of the Stirling engine in self-propelled carriages hasten the advent of the motor car? To my knowledge, in the early years the Stirling engine's main advantage to steam was safety. I understand that the problems in using it for travelling purposes would be the same as with steam, namely a poor power-to-weight ratio and the advanced skills and materials needed for successful miniaturization. Could you or someone else in the know tell me if a Stirling engine could, by the 1830s-40s, plausibly become more light and powerful and as portable as, say, a steam engine with Walter Hancock's tubular boiler? If not, I guess railways would likely win the contest pretty much in the same fashion as they did OTL.

Hmm... Maybe not as practical as I hoped.:( I was thinking in terms of lower complexities, temperatures, & pressures of Stirling against steam. Also, I had in mind (IIRC, my notes not in front of me) Trevithick's work on high-pressure steam being applicable. And, just for the h*ll of it, I was throwing in Stephenson [sp?] & Oliver Evans & their experiments on roadgoing steam vehicles. I also think U.S. demand for machinery, & mobility due to geography, effects development of highways & railways. Probably Britain has more rail early, given better iron mining, where U.S. goes more for highways & cars, with Stirling wagons (like this or perhaps this, rather than this). I don't expect performance to be high early on, any more than early cars were. Also, I presumed about 10yrs' more-advanced steam before the first Stirling-powered car (based on other developments TTL), putting the Evans/Stephenson/Trevithick projects equal to about 1827 OTL. Maybe a bit of handwaving, too.:D (Do I need it?:eek:)
 
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