The Sons of Semiramis - A house of Folkung Kalmar Union

[Atterdag]

Who stands to inherit from Queen Anne at this point?
Whomever is king?

The lands a Queen was given were only for her, so they would revert to the state on her death. As far as I understand both the King and the highest nobles were supposed to chip in for the lands.

As Anne is quite industrious she’s probably bought more lands for herself, or redeemed those she already hold. In that case they could be inherited as normal.

 

[Jürgen]

Honestly, it is quite good that Jon´s son was elected. It means that if they loose he can be killed. Same for Christian as the regent.

In general Danish kings didn't kill their relatives, and killing a child king popped used as puppet by foreign powers makes little sense for Olaf, especailly as the boys claim is so weak and his father's "reign" is seen as a disaster by pretty much everyone. It makes more sense for Olaf to butcher much of the Jutish nobility who doesn't change side fast enough, confiscate Schleswig (and make Sten Sture stadholder of Schleswig to get him out of Sweden), make Jon's children his (Olaf's) wards and give them some less important land somewhere they're not a threat (and don't give them land in Norway or Finland).

 

[Jürgen]

I don't think that he'd manage to do it. For me, the biggest mistake of Christian is that he allowed Olaf the Child (forgive me, I won't use Scandinavian version of that name) to be hailed as a king of Denmark. Supporters of Jon Sigurdsson didn't give a shit about hereditary claim (if they did, they won't support Jon over Olaf, under hereditary monarchy, Jon's claim is literally indefensible against Olaf the King's), so Christian could press to elect himself and with adult King, chances of winning the war would be higher.
Matilda of Pinneberg would escape to Schleswig with her son the moment things would start to go slightly wrong for them.

Thye benefit of Christian get from being regent is that it also make it possible to make a claim to be regent over Oluf Child's Schleswigian possessions and the whole Lord (Herre) of Jutland give him a good position for enlarging his power. But yes he would likely have been better off simply letting the Jutish nobility crown him king and simply declare himself regent for Oluf Child in Schleswig, I expect that he simply decided to play it safe, and that ended up a mistake.

 

[Gabingston]

I may have said this before, but I'm excited to see the Kalmar Union's colonial empire, assuming it survives the current crisis intact.

 

[Zygmunt Stary]

Thye benefit of Christian get from being regent is that it also make it possible to make a claim to be regent over Oluf Child's Schleswigian possessions and the whole Lord (Herre) of Jutland give him a good position for enlarging his power. But yes he would likely have been better off simply letting the Jutish nobility crown him king and simply declare himself regent for Oluf Child in Schleswig, I expect that he simply decided to play it safe, and that ended up a mistake.

Well, TTL's Christian is Eric of Pomerania's sororal nephew, so he inherited whatever claim Eric pursued over orginal Olaf (too lazy to check actual numbering, meant that one who existed OTL) so in some way, his claim is stronger than Olaf the Child's. But yes, I suppose that Christian was simply too cautious and that was his mistake.

 

[Atterdag]

Well, TTL's Christian is Eric of Pomerania's sororal nephew, so he inherited whatever claim Eric pursued over orginal Olaf

The union royal line. Basically, Bogislaw’s claim rested on accepting that his uncle Albert should’ve been elected King of Denmark over Olaf Arv, because he was the son of the eldest daughter of Valdemar Atterdag. Christian’s claim is thus that his uncle’s uncle was rightful King.

 

[Zygmunt Stary]

The union royal line. Basically, Bogislaw’s claim rested on accepting that his uncle Albert should’ve been elected King of Denmark over Olaf Arv, because he was the son of the eldest daughter of Valdemar Atterdag. Christian’s claim is thus that his uncle’s uncle was rightful King.

Thanks for clarification, so Christian made a huge mistake by not pursuing that claim

 

[Alkmaion]

In general Danish kings didn't kill their relatives, and killing a child king popped used as puppet by foreign powers makes little sense for Olaf, especailly as the boys claim is so weak and his father's "reign" is seen as a disaster by pretty much everyone. .

I don´t see the problem. Olaf is NOT the Danish king...

 

[King of Danes]

I can’t remember if this has been discussed earlier, but how long do you plan on the house of Kalmar/Folkung/Bjälbo/Margrethe lasting? Will it last until the current day?

 

[Atterdag]

I can’t remember if this has been discussed earlier, but how long do you plan on the house of Kalmar/Folkung/Bjälbo/Margrethe lasting? Will it last until the current day?

Haven’t planned anything particular, I don’t even know if I’ll take it all the way to current day (though I would like to). A dynasty surviving that long would be rare of course, but not inconceivable.

 

[King of Danes]

Haven’t planned anything particular, I don’t even know if I’ll take it all the way to current day (though I would like to). A dynasty surviving that long would be rare of course, but not inconceivable.

It can happen! The Savoys and Wittelsbachs, for example, have stuck around until present day. Through various branches of course. It would be cool if you could take it all the way until today, but I'll be happy for it to just continue for as long as it makes sense for you

 

[isabella]

It can happen! The Savoys and Wittelsbachs, for example, have stuck around until present day. Through various branches of course. It would be cool if you could take it all the way until today, but I'll be happy for it to just continue for as long as it makes sense for you

The French royal line also, if you keep count who their various branches are all related in the male line. Modern Habsburgs are from a branch originated from the last heiress of the House but their male line (Lorraine) can be traced at least since the year 1000 (as that is the birth year of their first ancestor to be Duke of Lorraine)

 

[Ulv01]

The imperial house of Japan have been the same from the 600 hundreds BC.

 

[Saya Aensland]

The imperial house of Japan have been the same from the 600 hundreds BC.

Of course, that can be attributed to the polygamy: if your wife won't give you a male heir, one of your 5 concubines will. Having concubines also assures you have lots of half-brothers and male cousins around if the Emperor kicks the bucket without siring a son.

Notice that once the imperial house switched to monogamy it only took them a few generations to get to the very brink of extinction.

 

[Alkmaion]

Of course, that can be attributed to the polygamy: if your wife won't give you a male heir, one of your 5 concubines will. Having concubines also assures you have lots of half-brothers and male cousins around if the Emperor kicks the bucket without siring a son.

Notice that once the imperial house switched to monogamy it only took them a few generations to get to the very brink of extinction.

You shouldn´t believe everything they tell. Keitai(507-31) is believed to be the founder of a new dynasty...

 

[King of Danes]

You shouldn´t believe everything they tell. Keitai(507-31) is believed to be the founder of a new dynasty...

Still, if his dynasty has lasted since then, it would still be older than the major European dynasties mentioned earlier

 

[Cocytus737]

You shouldn´t believe everything they tell. Keitai(507-31) is believed to be the founder of a new dynasty...

Keitai still descended from the original Yamato dynasty, so at most it's just like Plantagenet and York/Lancaster situation. And in the end, the Imperial House of Japan is still known by the name Yamato before and after Keitai, so it's not like it's a 100% new dynasty.

 

[Avalon]

Keitai still descended from the original Yamato dynasty, so at most it's just like Plantagenet and York/Lancaster situation. And in the end, the Imperial House of Japan is still known by the name Yamato before and after Keitai, so it's not like it's a 100% new dynasty.

TBH in terms of dynasties, the Capetians were similarly long-lived. In reality, it's often a naming thing and how branches differentiate themselves. In some cultures branches would differentiate themselves after a generation apart in others they'd never do so and so one would be seen as a new ruling house while the other would not if it succeeded to power.

 

[Sean urbik]

hm, it would suck for the league if say... the danish nobles all of a sudden... revolted as a response certain events...

 

[Atterdag]

Hey everyone, as you no doubt have noticed the TL hasn’t been updated in a long while. I don’t want to end the TL, but I don’t really feel like continuing it in this way and format either. In short, I’m considering a reboot.

Why a reboot? First of all I’ve felt increasingly limited by my choice of a chronological format. Cramming everything that happens in the span of a few years into each part made me constantly choose between writing very broad and losing focus, or writing very focused (usually in the “main characters”) and losing the broader picture. I’d like to switch to focus more on a certain aspect of the TL in each part and be more free to jump back and forth in time without breaking from the established format.

Secondly, I’m starting to feel that the TL is becoming increasingly disconnected from history and more about my own made up characters. While I suppose this is inevitable when the PoD more or less is creating a whole new royal line, it’s accentuated by my choice of making the actions characters one of the characters the main focus of the TL. While I still want to keep the characters important, I’d also like to do more stuff about economic, social and diplomatic trends.

Finally, I’ve started to lose track of what the overarching current of events even is going to be anymore. I had the first 10-15 parts or so pretty much planned before I even started posting, but after that I started improvising a lot more stuff, some of which I think really worked, some of which I really want to redo, some of which I want to cut entirely.

In short, there probably won’t be more updates in this thread. I am going back to the drawing board, and I’m going to stay there for a while. I’ll try to get in touch with some of the wonderful people who commented and came with suggestions for the timeline, to figure out what I’ll do differently the next time. And when when I feel ready, I will be back. The sons of Semiramis will return!