The sons of Louis XIV of France

So, I've done this one before, but I thought I'd mix things up a wee bit.

So, we have:

Louis, Dauphin of France, b 1661.

Philippe of France or Henri of France born 1664

Marie Therese of France born 1667

Louis or Philippe of France born 1672

So, with this in mind what butterflies emerge from this? Is Marie Therese married off to Carlos of Spain when they're of age, is Louis XIV's second considered a potential heir when it becomes apparent that Carlos won't have children? Who could the second and third sons marry?
 
I do think if Leopold of Austria had a daughter with Margaret Theresa then perhaps Louis XIV's second son would marry her and then they'd be tied together, either that or Louis's daughter would be named Carlos heir?
 
I do think if Leopold of Austria had a daughter with Margaret Theresa then perhaps Louis XIV's second son would marry her and then they'd be tied together, either that or Louis's daughter would be named Carlos heir?

His daughter would only be named Carlos' heir in the event that Margarita Teresa's heirs died out AFAIK. The succession was Carlos II>Maria Teresa (renounced her rights)>Margarita Teresa (kept her rights on her marriage)>Margarita's children. It was only once Margarita Teresa's kids/descent died that the problems truly began and the union of France and Spain became an issue.
 
His daughter would only be named Carlos' heir in the event that Margarita Teresa's heirs died out AFAIK. The succession was Carlos II>Maria Teresa (renounced her rights)>Margarita Teresa (kept her rights on her marriage)>Margarita's children. It was only once Margarita Teresa's kids/descent died that the problems truly began and the union of France and Spain became an issue.

Hmm interesting, so would it be feasible for a marriage between Margarita Teresa's daughter and Louis's second son to happen, to prevent any issues?
 
Hmm interesting, so would it be feasible for a marriage between Margarita Teresa's daughter and Louis's second son to happen, to prevent any issues?

It could. But it might need Louis and Leopold to be on the same page with regard to the Spanish inheritance. And AFAIK, OTL they never were for a period long enough that they could pull off such a match.
 
It could. But it might need Louis and Leopold to be on the same page with regard to the Spanish inheritance. And AFAIK, OTL they never were for a period long enough that they could pull off such a match.

Very true, very true, could this see another war, or would Louis simply look for another wife for his son
 
Very true, very true, could this see another war, or would Louis simply look for another wife for his son

There were enough girls who wanted to marry the dauphin OTL - the Princess of Beira (could be an interesting choice), Anna Maria Luisa de Medici (her father stood in the way of it since he'd had a bad French marriage), Mary II (her father had this crazy idea for Mary to marry the dauphin and Anne to marry D. Carlos II - a younger son of the king of France might gain more traction - not much, since the idea of a French king of England would be unappealing), Sophie Charlotte of Hannover (OTL queen of Prussia) was offered for Louis XIV (no reason her mom, Electress Sophia, wouldn't offer her for a duc d'Anjou or de Berri), and a few other girls (can't remember who they were) made the short list IIRC. Could easily see Louis XIV taking one of them for a younger son.
 
There were enough girls who wanted to marry the dauphin OTL - the Princess of Beira (could be an interesting choice), Anna Maria Luisa de Medici (her father stood in the way of it since he'd had a bad French marriage), Mary II (her father had this crazy idea for Mary to marry the dauphin and Anne to marry D. Carlos II - a younger son of the king of France might gain more traction - not much, since the idea of a French king of England would be unappealing), Sophie Charlotte of Hannover (OTL queen of Prussia) was offered for Louis XIV (no reason her mom, Electress Sophia, wouldn't offer her for a duc d'Anjou or de Berri), and a few other girls (can't remember who they were) made the short list IIRC. Could easily see Louis XIV taking one of them for a younger son.

Oh that's quite interesting, and the Princess of Beira marrying the Duc would be something, Bourbon Portugal would give everyone a nightmare
 
Oh that's quite interesting, and the Princess of Beira marrying the Duc would be something, Bourbon Portugal would give everyone a nightmare

No, I don't think so. However, Bourbon Portugal + Bourbon Spain would probably. Besides, the Braganças were already Capetians, so replacing one branch with another might not cause such a big ripple effect as might first seem.
 
No, I don't think so. However, Bourbon Portugal + Bourbon Spain would probably. Besides, the Braganças were already Capetians, so replacing one branch with another might not cause such a big ripple effect as might first seem.

Oh this is true, they descend from the House of Ivrea Burgundy right?

I am curious as to how Louis's son would handle being King Consort, and not King in his own right.
 
Oh this is true, they descend from the House of Ivrea Burgundy right?

I am curious as to how Louis's son would handle being King Consort, and not King in his own right.

No, that's the Trastamaras - they descend in a bastard line from the house of Ivrea who were also counts of Burgundy.

The Braganças descend in a bastard line from a bastard son (Affonso I) of Joao I, King of Portugal (who was in turn a bastard son of Pedro I - a descendant of Henri, son of the Capetian duke of Burgundy. Ironically, Henri (ducal) and Raymond of (comital) Burgundy, were possibly cousins and married to half-sisters, both daughters of Alfonso VI of Spain.

Depends on his son's personality I guess. If he's someone like his mother - not really involved in politics - it might suit the Portuguese. However, if he's someone like his dad, it's gonna be difficult. But, the only way he can be king-consort is if a) Françoise of Savoie-Nemours outlives her husband or b) Pedro II's second marriage is childless (unlikely). Otherwise, the minute he remarries and the Princess of Beira is no longer heiress presumptive, the duc d'Anjou/Berri goes back to France with his wife in tow (a la @Valena's doing in The Duchess of Cumberland)
 
Possible brides for any French prince:
- Marie Louise d'Orléans (26 March 1662 – 12 February 1689) IOTL married King Charles II of Spain
- Marie Thérèse de Bourbon (1 February 1666 – 22 February 1732)
- Anna Maria Luisa [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosimo_III_de%27_Medici,_Grand_Duke_of_Tuscany']de' Medici of Tuscany[/URL] (11 August 1667 – 18 February 1743)
- Isabel Luísa, Princess of Beira (6 January 1669 – 21 October 1690)
- Maria Antonia of Austria (18 January 1669 – 24 December 1692)
- Anne Marie d'Orléans (27 August 1669 – 26 August 1728) IOTL married King Victor Amadeus II of Sardinia and had issue.
- Violante Beatrice of Bavaria (23 January 1673 – 30 May 1731)
- Marie of Lorraine (12 August 1674 – 30 October 1724)
- Élisabeth Charlotte d'Orléans (13 September 1676 – 24 December 1744)

A little out there but if Charles II/James II/George I wanted support from the French:
- Mary of England, OTL Mary II, Queen of England
- Anne of England, OTL Anne, Queen of Great Britain
- Sophia Charlotte of Hannover, OTL Queen in Prussia
 
No, that's the Trastamaras - they descend in a bastard line from the house of Ivrea who were also counts of Burgundy.

The Braganças descend in a bastard line from a bastard son (Affonso I) of Joao I, King of Portugal (who was in turn a bastard son of Pedro I - a descendant of Henri, son of the Capetian duke of Burgundy. Ironically, Henri (ducal) and Raymond of (comital) Burgundy, were possibly cousins and married to half-sisters, both daughters of Alfonso VI of Spain.

Depends on his son's personality I guess. If he's someone like his mother - not really involved in politics - it might suit the Portuguese. However, if he's someone like his dad, it's gonna be difficult. But, the only way he can be king-consort is if a) Françoise of Savoie-Nemours outlives her husband or b) Pedro II's second marriage is childless (unlikely). Otherwise, the minute he remarries and the Princess of Beira is no longer heiress presumptive, the duc d'Anjou/Berri goes back to France with his wife in tow (a la @Valena's doing in The Duchess of Cumberland)

This is very true, what would you recommend in this area then? Pedro to die before he can have more children? Or something else? If philippe was very much a military man would that be palatable to the Portuguese?

Possible brides for any French prince:
- Marie Louise d'Orléans (26 March 1662 – 12 February 1689) IOTL married King Charles II of Spain
- Marie Thérèse de Bourbon (1 February 1666 – 22 February 1732)
- Anna Maria Luisa de' Medici of Tuscany (11 August 1667 – 18 February 1743)
- Isabel Luísa, Princess of Beira (6 January 1669 – 21 October 1690)
- Maria Antonia of Austria (18 January 1669 – 24 December 1692)
- Anne Marie d'Orléans (27 August 1669 – 26 August 1728) IOTL married King Victor Amadeus II of Sardinia and had issue.
- Violante Beatrice of Bavaria (23 January 1673 – 30 May 1731)
- Marie of Lorraine (12 August 1674 – 30 October 1724)
- Élisabeth Charlotte d'Orléans (13 September 1676 – 24 December 1744)

A little out there but if Charles II/James II/George I wanted support from the French:
- Mary of England, OTL Mary II, Queen of England
- Anne of England, OTL Anne, Queen of Great Britain
- Sophia Charlotte of Hannover, OTL Queen in Prussia
I can see Marie Louise being a bride for philippe if he’s not king of Spain or involved in Portugal, or Mary of England, especially if James or Charles have sons.

For the third son, I imagine another local marriage to a cousin perhaps
 
This is very true, what would you recommend in this area then? Pedro to die before he can have more children? Or something else? If philippe was very much a military man would that be palatable to the Portuguese?


I can see Marie Louise being a bride for philippe if he’s not king of Spain or involved in Portugal, or Mary of England, especially if James or Charles have sons.

For the third son, I imagine another local marriage to a cousin perhaps

Ironically, @Valena can correct me on this, if LXIV has a daughter, she'd likely be married to Carlos II. Which would then leave Marie Louise without a husband (her sister's OTL husband is too young), so Marie Louise might end up as Queen of Portugal (second wife for Pedro II) or as wife to a surviving son of James II and Anne Hyde. She'd be unpopular in the latter country, but I guess Parliament would grit their teeth and bear it - rather a Catholic future queen with an Anglican future king than a Catholic king sort of thing.
Or Marie Louise d'Orléans winds up as duchess of Savoy while her sister becomes electress of Bavaria (which leaves Maria Antonia of Austria without a husband of round her own age - unless we marry her to Giovan' Gastone/Ferdinandino de Medici)
 
Ironically, @Valena can correct me on this, if LXIV has a daughter, she'd likely be married to Carlos II. Which would then leave Marie Louise without a husband (her sister's OTL husband is too young), so Marie Louise might end up as Queen of Portugal (second wife for Pedro II) or as wife to a surviving son of James II and Anne Hyde. She'd be unpopular in the latter country, but I guess Parliament would grit their teeth and bear it - rather a Catholic future queen with an Anglican future king than a Catholic king sort of thing.
Marie Louise ironically is the most palatable Catholic bride for London possible, being the daughter of Princess Henrietta.
And I agree, Marie Therese (or other surviving daughter of Louis XIV) would likely be earmarked for Spain since birth/infancy.
 
Marie Louise ironically is the most palatable Catholic bride for London possible, being the daughter of Princess Henrietta.
And I agree, Marie Therese (or other surviving daughter of Louis XIV) would likely be earmarked for Spain since birth/infancy.
So, Marie Louise to England, that would be quite interesting to see, as would her in Portugal
 
So what role would people want to see for Louis second son? King, royal consort, duke and war commander?
 
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