The Sons of Inti Shall Not Perish

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Yanez de Gomera

Gian said:
I'd love to see how less riches in Spain's coffers would lead to an economically weaker Spain, and thus a tendency for more areas to go Protestant (ie Bohemia, France) in the long-run?
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Yeah I am interested too in the effects of reduced availability of silver from Potosì on the European economic developement.

This TL shows great promise and I like the writing style, so keep up the good work! My only quibble is that the epidemics could maybe have a worse effect on such a centralised society as the Incaic one.
 
BootOnFace

BootOnFace

A Spanish economy not inundated with Peruvian silver might actually be more healthy by the end of the 17th century. The government might actually be forced to develop the domestic economy instead of just raking in colony money.
 
lordapocalipsis

lordapocalipsis

BootOnFace said:
A Spanish economy not inundated with Peruvian silver might actually be more healthy by the end of the 17th century. The government might actually be forced to develop the domestic economy instead of just raking in colony money.
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maybe, however there is still the problem of religion ins Spain, especially the Santa Inquisición, which hunts almost anyone with liberal ideas, jews and others
 

ZhugeLiang

BootOnFace said:
A Spanish economy not inundated with Peruvian silver might actually be more healthy by the end of the 17th century. The government might actually be forced to develop the domestic economy instead of just raking in colony money.
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Butttt now Europe can't trade with China, and they can't force China's doors open yet (Sino-Dutch wars, for example). Only Mexican silver can trade with China.

China will primarily trade with the Inca tho
 

Yanez de Gomera

They could possibly still get silver or gold in exchange for goods, actually adding a drive for industrialisation. The lack of specie would be damaging, but I am not sure it would be enough to avoid western industrislisation. I am thinking this could be great for places like Venice or Milan which could trade (if they find suitable intermediaries) luxury goods (silk, murano glass, manufactured goods etc.) to the Inca.
 

ZhugeLiang

Pesterfield said:
Opium, but how soon can that start?
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Not very soon. At this point in time, the Qing dynasty is very strong and can easily crush Europeans or South Americans or whoever. Still, that might open up China's doors to help the Inca. After all, they're both suffering from the Europeans' greed...
 

Jürgen

lordapocalipsis said:
maybe, however there is still the problem of religion ins Spain, especially the Santa Inquisición, which hunts almost anyone with liberal ideas, jews and others
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Religious tolerance is overrated, Sweden was pretty much as intolerant as the Catholic states, it didn't keep them from making important institutional reforms. The expulsion of the "Jews" and "Muslims" may have been a long term economic bad idea, but it wasn't that which made Spain into a economic basket case. France expelled a half million of their best and brightest, it didn't keep France from dominating Europe in 200 years. If Spain lack a source of fast money, they have to make investment to keep their economy going. In the positive aspects that's investments at home in industry and agriculture production, in the less positive aspects it would be massive investments in Caribbean sugar production, which would also help building up the mercantile class at home. In fact if the Spanish have to trade with the Inca instead of just exploit them, it also force them to develop some export industries to produce the goods they trades or become middlemen.
 

Jürgen

The Italian states mostly failed
ZhugeLiang said:
Not very soon. At this point in time, the Qing dynasty is very strong and can easily crush Europeans or South Americans or whoever. Still, that might open up China's doors to help the Inca. After all, they're both suffering from the Europeans' greed...
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The Chinese didn't suffer from European greeds at this point, because as you said China was strong, and any contact between Incas and any non-European power is completely unlikely. The Incas won't sail anywhere, they won't develop a navy at least not for centuries, they don't need it and they don't have a idea of how to built or use it. The Incas biggest problem is that everything the Europeans use are result of centuries or millenniums of development. The King of the Uzbeks suggestion that they adopts crossbows was a excellent suggestions, as it was one of the most simple technologies to copy, which also improve the Inca army many times. But the most likely source of "modern" weapons will simply be that the Inca trade the Spanish gold for guns, cannons and horses. If the Inca are smart they also do as the Ottomans did and hire Europeans as gunners and gun powder makers.
 

Jürgen

Lightbringer said:
Without the Gold and Silver of America, wouldn't the Industrial Revolution to be butterflied away?
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Unlikely maybe you could butterfly it away if the sugar production disappeared. In fact I think this will push more production of goods earlier. The Europeans need silver for the China trade, if they can't get it from the Incas we will likely see rising silver prices in Europe benefiting the local silver producers. But more likely they will simply trade with the Incas, which will mean that Europe will likely sell things like weapons, but also spices, coloured cloths, sugar and other goods the Incas doesn't produce. The risk the Incas run here is that they risk building their economy on the extraction of resources, while they import manufactured goods. But by the point that's going to be a problem they will have survived for 2-3 hundred years longer.
 
luis3007

luis3007

The Inca Empire has enough gold and silver to last centuries of pre-industrial extraction. And that is without counting other resources like copper or rare metals that are still extracted today by tons with modern methods.
 
King of the Uzbeks

King of the Uzbeks

SWEET JESUS. Its been a while since I've updated, hasn't it.

There will be an Interlude Monday, in desecration of Columbus Day or celebration of Indiginous Peoples day, whichever you prefer.
 
Gian

Gian

Banned
King of the Uzbeks said:
SWEET JESUS. Its been a while since I've updated, hasn't it.

There will be an Interlude Monday, in desecration of Columbus Day or celebration of Indiginous Peoples day, whichever you prefer.
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Sweet.

Also, IMO Columbus Day is so overrated compared to Leif Erikson Day (commemorating the man who actually discovered America)
 
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