Why do we need Catholicism to be introduced? Much more interesting, and I think plausible, to have a Christian undercurrent within a pagan society, with violent religious conflict down the line - just like Japan.
The Sons of Inti Shall Not Perish
- Thread starter King of the Uzbeks
- Start date
Well, converting to Christianity goes a long way to convince Europeans that the Inca state has a right to exist...
Converting to Christianity doesn't magically remove the ressources of South America. Also, what's the point about a Christian Inca Empire? It wouldn't be that different from OTL South America, except the lacking Spanish language and the population of Spanish origin.
So basically nothing in common except the some of the population's genetic stock?
Converting to Christianity also means the Sapa Inca can no longer proclaim descent from Inti, which means that the sons of Inti shall perish.
Converting to Christianity didn't stop the Teutonic Knights from trying to beat up the Poles and Lithuanians, why would it stop the Spanish from beating up the Tawantinsuyu?
Didn't go well for the Kongo or the Cherokee either.
Like in all things the key to legitimacy is strength.
Europeans had no trouble recognising that the heathen ming dynasty was a proper state.
Well, the Kongo, at least, were quite independent until the nineteenth century, even if Portuguese influence existed there for long before that.
Well yes but most african states could say the same, european colinisation in africa only really took off in the 19th century. The same could be said about the pagans in zimbabwe and along the slave coast or the muslims in north africa.
The point is they didn't get special treatment.
When I started this TL I tried to respond to every comment. But I've gotten so far beyond on that and so much of it is similar to other comments. So that's dead.
Sorry.
On one hand I didn't give Catherine Howard a daughter just to have said daughter fade into the background. On the other hand I always thought that Edward VI had the potential to end up as a sort of protestent Bloody Mary.
So stay tuned.
If y'all are wondering "Big" Venice ain't looking too grand at the moment, having just taken a beating at the hands of the Ottoman Empire.
Thanks
Quipu may indeed have more to it then at first glance. But it's hard to guess how much. For this TL's purposes it's numbers and some basic reports. It can tell you show doing what where and how much corn they have but it's not holding any epic poetry.
The roads were not built for horses, and llamas are always going to outpace them in certain areas. However horses remain extremely useful even if they aren't going to completely eclipse the llama.
Obviously there are a few crops that could help in certain areas but you are right that the Inca have a strong crop package. However there is a wide array of animals that could still permeate the Empire.
I'm glad you find that side of things interesting.
Of course some of their success IOTL was that they were living in some pretty unappealing deserts.
New Amsterdam doesn't exist yet, so the Mapuche have an advantage.
All joking aside the Mapuche are on fairly good terms with the Spanish right now, and aren't organized enough to really have a coherent foreign policy beside "who are we attacking/not attacking"
Of course this can all change in a flash.
On the subject of a story only thread.
I have a very definite moment that will end this "Book" of The Sons of Inti Shall Not Perish (The Heart of the Andes). I'm not entirely sure how long it will take to get there, but we are rapidly approaching this event. Or rather the events that lead to this moment.
Once this Book is completed I will begin to revise it. This shouldn't take too long. Only some minor changes to better foreshadow certain events and create a more coherent "voice" for this TL. oh, and edit some names to version more faithful to Quecha. Then I'll post this to the finished TL forum.
Who needs Whisky when you can have GLORIOUS TAWANTINSUYU VODKA!!!!!
The family first started gaining prominence back in the 13th Century, so it's not inconceivable that they had some links to Constantinople. That said with enough money you could make yourself be related to anyone you wanted to be.
The Welser's are farther into the Empire then they would be had the plagues not been tearing it apart but they are not yet at the gates of Quito. The natives they meet are merely advancing into land that was once theirs.
Now obviously Christianity could help the Incas wriggle into a better place with the Europeans. OTOH this doesn't guarantee anything and neither Atahualpa nor any of his possible successors particularly care about conforming to European standards of statehood. However with the apocalyptic plagues hitting the Empire at all levels Christianity may prove appealing to those hit hard.
Sorry.
On one hand I didn't give Catherine Howard a daughter just to have said daughter fade into the background. On the other hand I always thought that Edward VI had the potential to end up as a sort of protestent Bloody Mary.
So stay tuned.
If y'all are wondering "Big" Venice ain't looking too grand at the moment, having just taken a beating at the hands of the Ottoman Empire.
Thanks
Quipu may indeed have more to it then at first glance. But it's hard to guess how much. For this TL's purposes it's numbers and some basic reports. It can tell you show doing what where and how much corn they have but it's not holding any epic poetry.
The roads were not built for horses, and llamas are always going to outpace them in certain areas. However horses remain extremely useful even if they aren't going to completely eclipse the llama.
Obviously there are a few crops that could help in certain areas but you are right that the Inca have a strong crop package. However there is a wide array of animals that could still permeate the Empire.
I'm glad you find that side of things interesting.
Of course some of their success IOTL was that they were living in some pretty unappealing deserts.
New Amsterdam doesn't exist yet, so the Mapuche have an advantage.
All joking aside the Mapuche are on fairly good terms with the Spanish right now, and aren't organized enough to really have a coherent foreign policy beside "who are we attacking/not attacking"
Of course this can all change in a flash.
On the subject of a story only thread.
I have a very definite moment that will end this "Book" of The Sons of Inti Shall Not Perish (The Heart of the Andes). I'm not entirely sure how long it will take to get there, but we are rapidly approaching this event. Or rather the events that lead to this moment.
Once this Book is completed I will begin to revise it. This shouldn't take too long. Only some minor changes to better foreshadow certain events and create a more coherent "voice" for this TL. oh, and edit some names to version more faithful to Quecha. Then I'll post this to the finished TL forum.
Who needs Whisky when you can have GLORIOUS TAWANTINSUYU VODKA!!!!!
The family first started gaining prominence back in the 13th Century, so it's not inconceivable that they had some links to Constantinople. That said with enough money you could make yourself be related to anyone you wanted to be.
The Welser's are farther into the Empire then they would be had the plagues not been tearing it apart but they are not yet at the gates of Quito. The natives they meet are merely advancing into land that was once theirs.
Now obviously Christianity could help the Incas wriggle into a better place with the Europeans. OTOH this doesn't guarantee anything and neither Atahualpa nor any of his possible successors particularly care about conforming to European standards of statehood. However with the apocalyptic plagues hitting the Empire at all levels Christianity may prove appealing to those hit hard.
Since the Spanish won't conquer the Tawantinsuyu, will this encourage more Spanish expeditions into the Pacific to enlarge the Spanish East Indies?
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But conversion makes a crusade almost impossible. The conversion of Lithuania forced the Catholic Church to maintain neutrality in the Battle of Grunwald, in which the Teutonic Order suffered a decisive defeat.
Maybe. But by and large, in Pacific from the Coast to the line of the Zaragossa Treaty there is nothing particularly interesting for the Spaniards. The Philippines would probably have been explored more actively. Possible also would be an active expansion into Australia or even Japan. But compared with Tawantinsuyu it's tears.
This would be a crucial difference. Tawantinsuyu would be a cohesive, highly organized state that would have a work ethic close to Confucian, while unlike China and Japan of the XVI-XVIII centuries, open to new technologies, new contacts and new ideas. As I already wrote here, it would be like the Japan of the Meiji era, but started 300 years earlier and lasted 400 years longer. It's hard to imagine what the world would be like, in which there would be additional strong and intelligent player such as Tawantinsuyu.
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More involvement in East Asia politics will create some interesting side effects.
Possibly. But in East Asia we have the Portuguese and the Zaragoza treaty. The Portuguese are not asleep.
Maybe. First of all, Catholicism is heterogeneous. I think the Incas would rather find a common language not with Spanish or Portuguese episcopates but with an extraterritorial religious organization such as the Order of Jesus. I guess that this would be a very mutually beneficial union. It is possible that the Jesuits, powerful ideologically and rich economically (gold, silver and labour of Incas!) could hold their candidate for the Pope (which they achieved only in 2013 in the OTL). But concessions can not be one-sided, and the Jesuits would reconcile with the Inca duality, identifying the local gods with Christian saints (Wiraqucha = God-father, Inti = Christ, Pachakamaq = Holy Spirit, etc.). Yes, it looks some like Japan.
Although that still leaves the western half of Oceania up for colonisation.