O'Alexis 89 said:
Oh God, it's Columbia 4 years before...
I think it is the end of the Buran...
...and the worst part? Columbia is still going to happen, since no camera recorded the ice falling on the wing.
We are going to lose 7 more astronauts.
Luath said:
We are going to lose 7 more astronauts.
<snip>
No one would dare touch a shuttle after this.
Yep, it was the end for the Soviet shuttle... but Columbia has been averted! Whether that will be enough to prevent a different tragidy befalling the US shuttle before it's retired is another question, but not one that will be explored in this timeline. As for shuttles, the Horizon derivative may yet evolve into the CSV, so there could be life yet for spaceplanes of a sort!
Insider said:
Excellent grasp of tragedy. I like how you show how insignificant the damage may seem to be, and how it results in catastrophic end. In space every flaw is deadly. No wonder that spacecraft that remains in service is either unmanned or manned by a tiny crew. Had they have sent Soyuz, losses would three instead of seven.
Indeed, space is unforgiving of even tiny mistakes.
fasquardon said:
Neat. I didn't know that TKS was still in the race so late in the day.
Michel Van said:
it went so far in 2000s until Russian Space Agency took PTK/Federatsiya space capsule.
in 2005 the Khrunichev enterprise proposed a modular TKS spacecraft concept
reach from traditional TKS to minimal one with capsule and small service module, crew went from 2 to 6, payload up to 6,350 kg unmanned cargo, also 1,870 kg down in unmanned capsule.
more here
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/tks_followon.html
so far i know they try to sell current version of TKS as Private space craft to investor.
Indeed, TKS has had a long and chequered history, with its Functional Cargo Block (FGB) enjoying more success than the VA reentry capsule (which was even more cramped than a Soyuz capsule, though reusable). IOTL Khrunichev did a good job selling an FGB to the Americans as "Zarya", over the objections of their colleagues from RKK Energia who wanted maximum ISS funds to go to their "Zvezda" DOS-8 module. It seems the private company
Excalibur Almaz are still claiming they'll one day fly people in their purchased VA capsules, but I wouldn't put money on it.
Shevek23 said:
Not perfectly invulnerable of course, but should a Zenit booster fail as spectacularly as Challenger's SRB did, shutdown, perhaps successful on the malfunctioning booster and continuing toward an emergency abort orbit on the remaining three, more likely of all 4, perhaps successful ejection of them early while the hydrogen main engines continue to work to remove the upper stack from the scene of the dangerous loose Zenits. Separation of Buran (if they still had it) from the stack is probably as problematic as for STS, but there is also the option of the crew ejecting from the whole thing--pretty hair-raising in the vicinity of a disintegrating Energia stack, but perhaps preferable to stoically assuming the system is invulnerable! All engines can be ordered to shut down which makes crew ejection marginally less insane, though the question remains if they can survive individually free-falling and parachuting to the ground. They are in space suits and the air is very thin, so perhaps they can.
Separation of the orbiter from the stack was indeed considered very risky for Buran, as for STS. I don't believe abort to orbit was considered an option if a Blok-A failed (I haven't found any reference to it anyway), so it would have likely triggered either a crew ejection (if early enough in the ascent), dumping the boosters and doing a RTLS-style retro-boost with the core, or separating the orbiter. As for STS, that last was considered very risky. It wouldn't surprise me if, given the choice, the crew would prefer to take their chances shutting down all engines and ejecting.
Shevek23 said:
1) Budget. The cheapest option is to write off Energia and stick to Protons and Soyuzes. Maybe as OTL Zenit can serve as the foundation of yet other launchers.
Good call
Shevek23 said:
The Russians had yet other spaceplane types up their sleeves, I believe, and of course by this point could steal the American HL-20 lifting body space taxi/lifeboat design--and after all in swiping it they are merely stealing back work Americans had to some extent picked up looking over Soviet shoulders when earlier versions of the form had been launched for tests of the planned Spiral small spaceplane. And in turn its design either paralleled or stole some American work in the 1960s including HL-10.
Or they could take Buran's loss as a sign that spaceplanes of any kind are ill advised, inefficient compared to capsules and yet apparently no safer!
Although I went for Zarya in the TL, I very nearly used the US experience with Horizon to steer the Soviets towards their own lifting body solution, either a modernised Spiral or something like Kliper. However, OTL has taught us that the Russians don't necessarily feel wedded to any particular design, and will change tack even after years going in one direction. So if NASA's CSV decision does finally go Horizon's way (although not mentioned in the text, my intention was that it is in competition with at least one "Apollo on steroids" capsule), I wouldn't be surprised to see VKA dump Zarya and switch to a lifing body.
Shevek23 said:
especially if the Soviets have a handy analog to the J-2 engine
fasquardon said:
Like the RD-57 you mean?
It was being designed for the N-1, but crops up in some of the proposals for upper stages for the Energia as well as the Deuteron rocket.
I'm not sure what engine it used, but there were plans to fit Buran-T (Energia-T ITTL) with a hydorlox upper stage called Smerch (Tornado), with a thurst of up to 10 tonnes and restart capability (
p.258 of this JBIS article).
Shevek23 said:
TKS design lends itself better to sticking some wings on it and layering the belly with more TPS
fasquardon said:
As I understand it, wasn't that basically what the LKS was? TKS systems stuck in an aerodynamic body so Chelomei could get some interest from the Soviet shuttle lobby?
I think LKS was quite distinct from TKS. It was basically the
same aeordynamic shape as Shuttle/Buran just scaled down. It did include a TPS derived from that used by TKS.
SAVORYapple said:
That was a beautiful ending! Bravo!
I'm slightly confused by your rendering of Alpha though. One, the robotic arm rail along the length of the truss is blocked by one of the US modules, and second, wouldn't the placement of Kibo interfere with shuttle docking at the "top" PMA? And wouldn't the currently unused PMA at the "bottom" of the IS be better relocated along the US core axis? Given the different layout of the station the shuttle docking sequence must be different as well.
The configuration I used for Alpha is Option A2 as depicted in NASA's
Space Station Redesign Team Final Report of June 1993 (see Figure 13 on p.36). I must admit I had to double-check when I first built the model that the Common Core/Lab does indeed sit between the two truss sections, but apparently that was the intention. I'm not sure how they planned to solve the RMS rail problem, but in my render I omitted the transporter, so it could just inchworm across the gap.
Also, I see I have forgotten to add the PMA for the shuttle at the bottom of the Common Core/Hab, instead placing it where NASA planned the centrifuge module (which I haven't added). That location could cuase some problems with the radiators, whilst sticking it on the CC/H would probably mean moving the Horizon lifeboat. I may well re-visit that render...
O'Alexis 89 said:
Alas, it is over... But, holy hell did I love this TL!
The Buran at the Cosmonautics Museum photo is beautiful, well... all the pictures of this story is beautiful!
And indeed, "her dream lives on".
Thanks! Don't forget me at next years's Turtledoves

(If only I'd posted part 1 a few hours earlier..!)
TheBatafour said:
A bittersweet end to a great alternate history. As much as I wanted to see Buran go on, and as much as this accident seemed so very avoidable, you did well in showing that in reality this spacecraft was due for something bad. Alpha and Mir-2 look quite intriguing, I'm glad to have found some new wallpaper

Eager to see what's next from Nixonshead!
Well, I did have one idea for a TL, but I seem to have just been gazzumped by a
highly skilled professional author of actual books, so I may put that one on the back-burner for a while. Also, given that this relatively short TL took me a year, and considering I'm just starting a new job which is likely to mean longer hours, I'm not sure jow much time I'll be able to devote to writing. We'll see...
Bahamut-255 said:
That's the Sodruzhestvo (TTL Don) LV you're speaking of?
That's the one.
Bahamut-255 said:
nd was that talks of an International Lunar Base (ILB) I hear? It would make for an interesting follow-on to this TL. Assuming relations can remain warm enough (and economic conditions good enough) to allow it. And/Or enough international partners to make cancelling it not worth the effort.
fasquardon said:
Given that NASA was said to have been put off by Soviet safety culture, I doubt the ILB would actually happen ITTL.
I wonder if the Soviets might get into a moon race with China though? (Bad enough that the Americans beat them and they lost their only shuttle, but to have the Chinese add to that by beating them to the moon too? Terrible!)
Yep, there's talk of an international moon project, but as
ESA's Moon Village demonstrates, talk is cheap... (Part of the fun of writing that section of the Epilogue was I got to move away from my general depressing [realist?] "they-wanted-to-do-this, but-there-was-no-money" style to a more optimistic [naive?] "there-are-plans-to-do-this, isn't-it-great!" style. Who knows, maybe this time it will all work out as planned

)
fasquardon said:
This is the real problem of the Shuttle IMO - NASA designed it as part of a large program including a space station, a moon base, a nuclear tug and over a dozen shuttle orbiters. Without that, without continual upgrades to the Shuttle LV and with ground infrastructure being neglected (which even happened to NASA), the system wasn't able to scale down well and ended up being needlessly dangerous and looking like a white elephant.
I'd say that's half the problem (it was built before the projects it was designed to serve existed), with the other half being failure to deliver on its key cost requirement (i.e. making access to space cheap enough to
enable those projects it was supposed to support). As soon as it actually got a space station to service, it was shut down. Still, an awesome flying machine!
fasquardon said:
Very interesting TL and thanks for doing it! Really enjoyed it a lot.
Thanks! It was a lot of fun to write!
e of pi said:
Nixonshead, I said this when you finished the draft, but I'll repeat it hear: I wasn't sure I'd have a lot to say on the thread because I didn't have much more than nits to pick. The whole thing feels historical in details, and the limited scope means you were able to execute it with a laser focus. Beautifully written, gorgeously illustrated, and just a blast to read as you wrote it and re-read as you've posted it.
Thank you so much for the kind words and support!
For the Energia-M evolution debate, I think I'll sit that one out and leave it to the experts
Michel Van said:
It was a Short but intense TL
i enjoy reading it
Thanks! And also thanks for the recommendation of
Spaceplane Hermes. My copy arrived last week and I look forward to reading it. Who knows, maybe I was too pessimistic and it could inspire me to create a "Winged Messenger" timeline
TimothyC said:
I am somewhat confused here. The HL-20/42 used one lifting body design (The BOR-4) while the X-38 used a different one (The X-24A design). Which is it?
Quite right, this is an error in the text, a hangover from an earlier draft. Horizon is in fact OTL's X-38 (I used orthogonal images of X-38 to create the model). I'll update in the text. Thanks for the catch!
Michel Van said:
On Zenit rocket
Already in begin of Energia program they study under 11?37 also the Zenit "Heavy" a cluster of several Zenit rocket
The version I was particularly interested in, to fill the Proton gap, was this thing:
I can't find many details on it though, so I have no idea how plausible it is.