The Smallest Possible Difference
- Thread starter wolf_brother
- Start date
It was something about a complaint in this thread that he started.https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=270879
Razgriz 2K9
Banned
Someone could always get a hold of him, and see if he will still make more. If he can get it arranged, another person can post his updates in his name.
That would be ideal, but does anyone know wolf_brother's e-mail or other ways to talk to him?
Actually I fear that's against the rules; anyone who wants to do this should ask a moderator if it's permitted first and I think they'll say no it isn't.
I never argue with the moderators about their decisions precisely because they don't always make sense to me; obviously I'd be on thin ice since I don't always understand them. It has happened before that people who have gotten banned have been allowed back. Unfortunately while what wolf_brother got in trouble for was not, in my view, offensive to the board community as a whole, it was very annoying for the moderators--basically he was trying to put them on the spot to come up with some rules about reporting things (IIRC--I haven't the heart to go back and read it all again). Whereas when I've had a similar wish to have something pinned down by a clear definition (what is or is not "ASB," especially since I felt some people were abusing the idea to shut down ideas they didn't like but were IMHO in no way unreasonable to entertain in the context of the known physical universe and known human behavior) the answer I got, as I understood it, was like the Supreme Court justice's definition of porn--"I know it when I see it, and so should you!" They like their flexibility, they don't want a lot of detailed rules for people to play rules lawyer with, and certain values are being enforced. So someone who wants those kinds of rules, or is making the claim that the moderators have put him in an unsolvable dilemma, would probably have a hard time persuading them to take him back. That's my hunch, based on my very murky understanding of their philosophy. I mostly try avoid tangling with them.
He was specifically upset about the request of moderators that we report things to them; I'm going to confess being on thin ice there because I've never reported anything ever. Whenever I see something that I think would warrant it, someone else has always already reported it and usually I don't see the offending post(s) at all until after they've been warned, kicked or banned--often I only see them because I'm trying to figure out why they are being handled this way.
One nice thing they--or specifically The Dark Messiah--has done lately by the way is create a list of people who have asked to be voluntarily banned, usually for a set period of time--people with pressing real-world concerns generally, who find they need to be locked out or AH will suck them in anyway, to the detriment of their real life. It used to be you'd find someone you liked or anyway always found inoffensive turned up "banned" all of a sudden and reading their last posts gave no clue as to why; then it was time for a sordid session of dredging through the "Hall of Infamy" for news. Nowadays there's "The Pond" which lists voluntary temporary bans, aka "Gone Fishin'," hence the pool metaphor. Note that it appears to be "closed;" this means others can't chatter on it, but it is apparently being updated anyway, by TDM.
Now I don't know why they can't create a subcategory or parallel version of banning that has the name "Gone Fishin'" and have that appear instead of "Banned" on their posts; that would totally solve the problem in my view, but it might be hard to do with the server software or something like that. At least now I know to look in the Pond first to see if it's all explained there. In the Pond you get just the announcement and that's sufficient explanation.
I certainly don't the mods to shut down the discussion in HoI since it tends to shed some light on how the rules are enforced and what they are. But meanwhile in addition to all the chatter there making the announcement one is looking for hard to find, the mods don't systematically announce every banning and kick there themselves; generally it's someone else, friend, foe, or bystander, who puts the post up, and the timelags can be maddening.
I do wish they'd have another thread like "The Pond" that only they can post to that automatically duplicates, or just posts a link to, the action post. That would be convenient and authoritative, rather than the catch as catch can nature of HoI, which should be allowed and maintained to discuss the actions, but shouldn't be the reference those of us trying to track down what happened and why have to rely on--because it isn't reliable.
People who think they can mediate a reconciliation between the mods and wolf_brother should definitely try; there are many precedents. Though I don't think I'd be an effective voice making the arguments since I understand the process so poorly, I'd be personally pleased since he's one of the banned I for one miss--this thread being an example of why. But I fear it would be tough sledding. Also--the impression I have is that the track record of the unbanned is not too encouraging; generally they wind up getting banned again for offenses similar to what got them in trouble in the first place.
I was not aware of any previous friction between wolf_brother and the mods; I suspect it has to do with specific and recent events in his real-world life, and therefore perhaps can be negotiated around.
No, it's kosher. That's how Protect and Survive was completed, after all.
It boils down to his relatively confrontational debate style, I believe.
It is quite unfortunate - there are few people doing research for TL's at his level.
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Meerkat92
Banned
From what I can tell, wolf_brother's banning was due to the fact that in a previous thread on China, he was making extremely vague blanket assertions and treating them like they were objective fact, and dismissing other people's opinion and changing the subject whenever he was proven wrong (which was a lot). Now, that alone isn't enough to merit a ban; if it was I'd have been banned months ago. No, what he was originally warned for was the fact that he reported every single comment that argued against him in that thread as trolling. Then, he started a thread in the Rules and Administration section in which he basically tried to play the victim card and pretend he had no clue why he was being rebuked. Then Ian came, saw his offense record, saw the "public whine-thread" (Ian's own words), and banned him.
TL;DR: wolf_brother was banned for extremely petty and belittling behavior towards others, on multiple occasions. He may know a lot more about history, but he was also a dismissive dick to those who disagreed with him and an extremely petty human being.
He also once started a spin-off thread for the sole purpose of making fun of a mistake I made in another thread (who the hell starts an entire thread just to make fun of someone saying "schizophrenic" when they meant "bipolar"?), but that's a story for another day...
...suffice it to say, he deserved that ban. I'm sorry about bringing this up again, but I just felt like i needed to say it. If a mod sees this and thinks it's out of place, feel free to remove it.
From what I can tell, wolf_brother's banning was due to the fact that in a previous thread on China, he was making extremely vague blanket assertions and treating them like they were objective fact, and dismissing other people's opinion and changing the subject whenever he was proven wrong (which was a lot). Now, that alone isn't enough to merit a ban; if it was I'd have been banned months ago. No, what he was originally warned for was the fact that he reported every single comment that argued against him in that thread as trolling. Then, he started a thread in the Rules and Administration section in which he basically tried to play the victim card and pretend he had no clue why he was being rebuked. Then Ian came, saw his offense record, saw the "public whine-thread" (Ian's own words), and banned him.
TL;DR: wolf_brother was banned for extremely petty and belittling behavior towards others, on multiple occasions. He may know a lot more about history, but he was also a dismissive dick to those who disagreed with him and an extremely petty human being.
He also once started a spin-off thread for the sole purpose of making fun of a mistake I made in another thread (who the hell starts an entire thread just to make fun of someone saying "schizophrenic" when they meant "bipolar"?), but that's a story for another day...
...suffice it to say, he deserved that ban. I'm sorry about bringing this up again, but I just felt like i needed to say it. If a mod sees this and thinks it's out of place, feel free to remove it.
Well your version certainly wins on depth, but the way I put it was so much nicer, no?
Meerkat92
Banned
You lose all rights to be described politely when you're so abominably petty that you start a thread purely to make fun of someone else's innocent mistake. And of course, the fact that it was me he was making fun of doesn't factor into my evaluation whatsoever...
Razgriz 2K9
Banned
Sure...why not?
Well in any case, unless someone has his E-Mail, I think it's safe to assume that this TL is effectively Deceased.
Well in any case, unless someone has his E-Mail, I think it's safe to assume that this TL is effectively Deceased.
You lose all rights to be described politely when you're so abominably petty that you start a thread purely to make fun of someone else's innocent mistake. And of course, the fact that it was me he was making fun of doesn't factor into my evaluation whatsoever...
Speaking ill of the dead isn't bad because of the dead - it's bad because of the living.
Will Kürlich Kerl
Banned
Sure...why not?
Well in any case, unless someone has his E-Mail, I think it's safe to assume that this TL is effectively Deceased.
someone could create a spinoff timeline from this timeline.
For heaven's sake, just post your email to the thread. It's not like he can't read AH.com. If he wants, he'll email you, and there you go.