The Slovakian King of Madagascar

Incanian

Incanian

Maurice Benyoszky was a Slovakian in the Austrian Empire that was born in 1746 and died in 1786.

He had a wildlife. He fought against the Russians as a soldier for the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, until he was captured, and sent to the Russian Far East, in Kamchatka. He lead a Prisoner revolt with 70 others, and broke free, and stole a ship. He sailed past Japan, went to Taiwan, and later went to Macau.

He met French diplomats, and sailed back to France, and even talked to Louis 15th, and talked about the possibility of a French colonization of Madagascar. Loius agreed and gave him 237 men to start up a colony in Madagascar.

After a few weeks, he did set it up. He drained swamps and built roads, but the colony failed due to tribal attacks on the settlers. The colony was abandoned, and he went back to France, which he met Benjamin Franklin, and decided to help out the American War for Independence.

He got distracted fighting for Austria in the War for Bavarian succession, but he later went to America to work for the revolutionary government. He even met George Washington to discuss plans of him forming a militia, but was turned down. He later went to Britain to discuss him setting up ANOTHER colony in Madagascar, but he was turned down.

THEN he decided to go one last time to Madagascar and was even guaranteed by Austrian King Joseph II for protection under the Austrians for his expedition.

He sailed to Madagascar, with help from other trading partners, which he planned too set up his own Kingdom in Madagascar, in exchange for slaves in America. The Expedition was turning out well, and he even united a lot of the neighboring tribes, until the Sakalava people attacked his settlement, and many were captured or dispersed. They went to Mozambique, sold the ship, and Maurice was assumed dead.]




HAHAHA fooled ya!

He was found still alive in 1786, in Ambihitralanana, ready too start again, and make his own Kingdom in Madagascar. Not French, but his own personal Kingdom. The French planned to assassinate him, worried about his presence there, and his possible huge strength disrupting trade in France, they set course, and his settlement was ambushed by three French troops, and he was killed.



So my question is, What if Maurice Benyoszky was on his second expedition to Madagascar, able to gain enough power, and create his own Kingdom? And could he possibly even unite all of Madagascar under his leadership, and Dynasty??

Here's a video for some more context as well.


Other things too discuss

1 His first expedition allows French colonization of Madagascar in 1780

2 He gets British support, and Britan Colonizes Madagascar in 1780.

3 He gets Austrian support, and AUSTRIA colonizes Madagascar in 1780.
 

DocJamore

I love reading about stories about people like this. It shows that real life one-ups fiction sometimes.

The problem with Benyovszky is that he doesn't seem like a guy who could pull a job like conquering Madagascar off. He seems more like an interesting historical coincidence, not a "great man" such as Cecil Rhodes, who in portion, had access to greater resources and political influence on the Metropole. Given the environment, being too successful just seems to increase his chance of getting assassinated.

His nationality would NOT have any effect on who winds up controlling Madagascar. That duty would fall on a patron. Columbus was Italian but Italy didn't conquer and govern the New World, Spain did that.

In any case, if Madagascar became European after 1780 that would cause some major butterflies since it would be one of the first European colonies in East Africa. We might see increased interest in that section of the world maybe even a limited scramble to try to control the slave trade in the region.
 
Incanian

Incanian

DocJamore said:
I love reading about stories about people like this. It shows that real life one-ups fiction sometimes.

The problem with Benyovszky is that he doesn't seem like a guy who could pull a job like conquering Madagascar off. He seems more like an interesting historical coincidence, not a "great man" such as Cecil Rhodes, who in portion, had access to greater resources and political influence on the Metropole. Given the environment, being too successful just seems to increase his chance of getting assassinated.

His nationality would NOT have any effect on who winds up controlling Madagascar. That duty would fall on a patron. Columbus was Italian but Italy didn't conquer and govern the New World, Spain did that.

In any case, if Madagascar became European after 1780 that would cause some major butterflies since it would be one of the first European colonies in East Africa. We might see increased interest in that section of the world maybe even a limited scramble to try to control the slave trade in the region.
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I don't know. He's fought in a ton of wars and has good experience with warfare, and the possible manpower he could get is enough to make a successful resistance.

The main reason he was killed, was because he was found after he was suspected dead. If everyone thinks he's dead, and they don't find him, and he gains enough support, he could establish his kingdom. He already did unite a ton of local tribes during his second expedition. Maurice doesn't have too fight France, he just has to fight French Mauritius, which would be an easier task if he had more time to work with. He spent 10 years in Madagascar, unifying many warlords, and tribes, and given more time, by the end of his life, with enough effort, it's possible he could unify Madagascar into his own empire.

If he gets the weapons, and some support, I think he has the ability too do it.
 

Hvalrossen

Incanian said:
Maurice Benyoszky was a Slovakian in the Austrian Empire that was born in 1746 and died in 1786.

So my question is, What if Maurice Benyoszky was on his second expedition to Madagascar, able to gain enough power, and create his own Kingdom? And could he possibly even unite all of Madagascar under his leadership, and Dynasty??
Click to expand...
Intresting character.

If he were to establish his own kindom there are some questions that is intresting.
1. Would he rely more on indiginous institutions or would he import European insitutions?
2. Would he adapt to native religion or attempt christianise the natives/subjects?
3. Would his dynasty be mainly european by blood or would it be more open to intermarriage with non europeans?
4. Could he offer the population of the territory he wanted anything to make them support him?
5. Would he encourage immigration to his kingdom? Is so where would the immigrant come from?
 
Incanian

Incanian

Hvalrossen said:
Intresting character.

If he were to establish his own kindom there are some questions that is intresting.
1. Would he rely more on indiginous institutions or would he import European insitutions?
2. Would he adapt to native religion or attempt christianise the natives/subjects?
3. Would his dynasty be mainly european by blood or would it be more open to intermarriage with non europeans?
4. Could he offer the population of the territory he wanted anything to make them support him?
5. Would he encourage immigration to his kingdom? Is so where would the immigrant come from?
Click to expand...

If anyone were to make a timeline on him, we'd need to make our own opinions on what he would do.

But if I were to take my opinion on it,

I think he would probably place a few European institutions. I don't know what he did in our timeline after he united the warlords, as I didn't read his memoir, but I'd say he'd put a few European institutions that he saw fitting, but I heard he had a better time with the natives than his own co-workers. I'd say he'd keep a lot of Native cultures, and even adopt some of it, except he would put in place a few European laws.

Christianizing the natives is a good topic. I'm pretty sure he might try to make a hybrid between the majority of Native beliefs, and Christianity, as too keep traditionalists happy, and too give a unity of religion.

His dynasty probably would intermarry with the natives, as I believe he already married a native and had a child with her. Assuming when he dies, and his son is in control of all of Madagascar, or almost all of it, he's half European, half Native. This is kind of a conflict of who he truly is, but I assume he'd be willing to have a child with a Native.

Well, as what comes with colonization, there is always industrialization and better living conditions. Obviously, if he gets guns, he can destroy any competition, and unite Madagascar. With the obvious trade of exotic items to Europe, as Madagascar is right next to Cape colony, and is a stopping point for the Indian spice trade, geography is on his side for trade. If he trades well, he can get enough money to begin infastructure projects, like a modern police force, roads, sanitation, education, and schools, Hospitals, and much more.

I think he'd allow immigration, and I think from anywhere, but he might ask for immigration for Madagascar particularly in Native Africa, and the Malaysian archipelago. But he'll probably open it up for anyone. Interestingly enough, the Zulus might have a sanctuary after the Anglo-Zulu wars.
 

Hvalrossen

Incanian said:
I think he'd allow immigration, and I think from anywhere, but he might ask for immigration for Madagascar particularly in Native Africa, and the Malaysian archipelago. But he'll probably open it up for anyone. Interestingly enough, the Zulus might have a sanctuary after the Anglo-Zulu wars.
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If the Zulus were to flee they would have to be transported by ships. I am not sure where thse ships might originate, maybe ships could be hired or maybe the kingdom could use its own fleet to transport the Zulus. Also it would be intresting to see how the Zulu departure from Natal would affect South Africa.
 
Incanian

Incanian

Hvalrossen said:
If the Zulus were to flee they would have to be transported by ships. I am not sure where thse ships might originate, maybe ships could be hired or maybe the kingdom could use its own fleet to transport the Zulus. Also it would be intresting to see how the Zulu departure from Natal would affect South Africa.
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Some Zulus might just see it as a way to escape rule by Europeans.
 

Tibi088

Ultima Ratio said:
I think there are some better qualified people than me on this region and era, I'm just basing this on Wikipedia mostly.
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Calling him Slovakian based on his birthplace is indeed wrong - Slovakia as a geographical concept was created much later.

The only way to answer is if he identified as slovakian or hungarian. Seeing his birthplace he most likely spoke slovakian. However he was a noble of the Kingdom of Hungary. When nationalism came - which was after his life - near all of the nobility decided that they are hungarians and learned hungarian if they didnt spoke it already.

According to the english wikipedia he "described himself as a Hungarian and a Pole". It also states that he is considered a hero in all three countries today (Hungary, Slovakia, Poland).

I would personally go with hungarian or polish if Wikipedia is right but slovakian should be all right as well - as long as you edit the he was born in Slovakia part. Thats definitely wrong. I could also recommend a lesser known term: hungarus. This is used to describes all people living in the kingdom of Hungary before nationalism came around and is not dependent on ethnicity, religion or social class.
 
Al-numbers

Al-numbers

What I am most interested in his how much influence did he have in the royal navies of Europe. To give some perspective, James Brooke established the kingdom of Sarawak with some help from the Royal Navy, whom were conducting anti-piracy raids across the South China Sea and viewed the adventurer as a possible ally to curb the region's lawlessness. Maurice has a lot of military experience, but it doesn't seem that he holds much sway with the naval arms of France, America, or Austria. Given Madagascar's distance from Europe and the Americas, I think a deeper connection with any navy is needed for him to be provided with settlers, provisions, or even just weapons. Plus, an involved navy could aid him greatly by using his settlements, buying his goods, aiding him in tribal wars, and generally connecting Madagascar with the wider world.

Another thing I want to know is how he united the local tribes. If Maurice imaged himself as a peacemaker and arbiter (not impossible since he has the superior firepower) then I can see him going at least partway to controlling the island. But to fully control the land might require him to use local knowledge and usage of tribal elements to elevate himself beyond a common man. "Follow me, for I shall grant courage with my leadership", in a sort of way. Though I must note, affiliating himself with this worldwiew could bite Maurice in the end if he loses a battle.

Besides that, I wonder if he could get rich nobles and traders to invest in him on Madagascar, instead of just seeking royal backing. Hell, James Brooke got the richest heiress in Victorian England to loan him money for Sarawak. Philanthropies like her wouldn't exist in Maurice's time, but he could expand his financial reach by rubbing shoulders with the wealthy of Paris, Vienna, or Philadelphia, and bargaining with them for loans.
 
Incanian

Incanian

Al-numbers said:
What I am most interested in his how much influence did he have in the royal navies of Europe. To give some perspective, James Brooke established the kingdom of Sarawak with some help from the Royal Navy, whom were conducting anti-piracy raids across the South China Sea and viewed the adventurer as a possible ally to curb the region's lawlessness. Maurice has a lot of military experience, but it doesn't seem that he holds much sway with the naval arms of France, America, or Austria. Given Madagascar's distance from Europe and the Americas, I think a deeper connection with any navy is needed for him to be provided with settlers, provisions, or even just weapons. Plus, an involved navy could aid him greatly by using his settlements, buying his goods, aiding him in tribal wars, and generally connecting Madagascar with the wider world.

Another thing I want to know is how he united the local tribes. If Maurice imaged himself as a peacemaker and arbiter (not impossible since he has the superior firepower) then I can see him going at least partway to controlling the island. But to fully control the land might require him to use local knowledge and usage of tribal elements to elevate himself beyond a common man. "Follow me, for I shall grant courage with my leadership", in a sort of way. Though I must note, affiliating himself with this worldwiew could bite Maurice in the end if he loses a battle.

Besides that, I wonder if he could get rich nobles and traders to invest in him on Madagascar, instead of just seeking royal backing. Hell, James Brooke got the richest heiress in Victorian England to loan him money for Sarawak. Philanthropies like her wouldn't exist in Maurice's time, but he could expand his financial reach by rubbing shoulders with the wealthy of Paris, Vienna, or Philadelphia, and bargaining with them for loans.
Click to expand...

I think if he is able to fight off the French Mauritius forces, he might also be able to take their ships given they beachhead. But he also could find allies in other European powers. He could seek help from the Americans, as he already had an audience with Geroge Washington, Benjamin Franklin, and he had two powerful American merchants investing in his plans. He could get some help from Britan, as Madagascar is a stop off from Cape Town, and to India, and later Australia. He could get help from the Dutch, Portuguese, Spanish, and a lot of other Powers as well.

I'm not sure on the basic details, but I believe it was a mix of warfare and diplomacy. From what I read, he was considered a king by the people he helped unite into the Kingdom of Antongil.

He could easily get rich nobles, and traders to invest in him. Madagascar has a lot of exotic material that could be purchased. There's coffee, shellfish, an abundance of Sugar, Fiber, cotton, minerals, and possibly Gemstones. But most importantly, Madagascar has a ton of Vanilla, and instead of trading with the Dutch for Vanilla in Indonesia, you could just trade with Maurice for Vanilla exports, and since Madagascar is in such a amazing geographical area, it could work out.
 
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