Як умру, то поховайте
Мене на могилі
Серед степу широкого
На Вкраїні милій,
Щоб лани широкополі,
І Дніпро, і кручі
Було видно, було чути,
Як реве ревучий.
Як понесе з України
У синєє море
The Silver Knight, a Lithuania Timeline
- Thread starter Augenis
- Start date
Мене на могилі
Серед степу широкого
На Вкраїні милій,
Щоб лани широкополі,
І Дніпро, і кручі
Було видно, було чути,
Як реве ревучий.
Як понесе з України
У синєє море
Would Ukraine really fit as a name, though? I am not an expert, but as far as I can know, it has origins in the Cossacks and similar people who lived in the steppe beyond the Dnieper, and this "Ruthenia's" nucleus is more in Kiev and other cities along the Dnieper.
Maybe, in retrospective, "Ukraine" or "Ukraina" could be an alternate name for Volga Russia.
Nobody knows the origin of the word "Ukraina". And I mean that.
You may try 'google translator' for a Russian/Slavic word 'край' - it has two meanings:
1) edge, end, border, side, rim, brim, fringe etc.
2) region, area, clime
As for me, I think it's ridiculous to call your country the "border", my hunch it derives from "region".
So, my guess the 'Ruthenians' would call themselves the "Ukrainians" in this ATL.
But, you are right, this is an English-speaking forum and that would complicate things.
Perhaps, though as far as I remember, historically it was often used to name the Cossack lands beyond the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, so I presumed it has at least partial origins from there.
Either way, I'll consider it.
That's where the concept of the independence was born. And it happened to be near the border. That's why I say, linguistically it is impossible to say what the origin of the name was.
As I said, there are two meanings of the Slavic word 'край'.
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That's the thing though English was drastically modified by Norman overlords who formed a tiny minority, you say it's irrelevant after YOU used it to advance a point and when that point blows up in your face you dismiss it as irrelevant. This wasn't a natural evolution of the language old English had 3 genders and numerous other aspects you definitely dont see in modern English or even middle English. Natural Lang age evolution is middle to modern English which are still intelligible with each other.
This can easily happen, the Ruthenian language can easily be lithuanianized as the situation is very similar to the Norman and English situation which you pointed out yourself in your recent post
Special Chapter: Lithuanian National Revival
Special Chapter
The Lithuanian National Revival
In the early 19th century, anthropologists and linguists from Western Europe declared that the Lithuanian nation does not have a long life left - by the time the 21st century rolls around, their language and culture will have completely vanished from the face of the Earth. And it's not hard to see why they were making such prophecies. Despite many of the empire's best efforts, assimilation was starting to take hold, especially in the upper classes. By the time the 19th century arrived, many of them were speaking a weird mixture of Baltic and Slavic languages, more and more of them had Ruthenian or Russian roots and were forced to balance between continued allegiance to Lithuanian culture of embracing Slavic traditions and beliefs, and many started to choose the latter. It was a merge of the Lithuanian, Ruthenian and Russian nobility. While originally it was limited to the upper classes, especially the nobility, higher class mobility and a changing culture thanks to the Industrial Revolution meant that even the lower classes like the farmers and poor city dwellers began to pick up on these features. Naturally, though, this assimilation was not one-sided, but the Lithuanian language suffered more than it's Slavic neighbours due to it's smaller number of speakers.
The setup for a breakthrough in this field arrived in the second half of the 18th century, although, more accurately, with two changes in Lithuanian society - the abolition of serfdom and the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. After the emancipation of the sets, the majority of them became free farmers, and as they were no longer pressed by obligations to their masters and now worked only for themselves, this new layer of society became much wealthier than it used to - well off enough to afford something previously though to be impossible to achieve, like sending their children to a school. Advancements in agricultural technology, especially the advent of fertilizer, greatly increased crop yield and reduced the need for using children as workforce. Now, only the eldest son was set to inherit the farm, so where do the rest of the sons of a farmer go? To the city, with it's rising factories and constant demand for industrial labor! Work in factories without safety regulations nor security was hard and tough and required long hours, but it paid the city immigrants much more than working for your relatives in a farm would ever do. And with money to spare, you can afford sending your children to a school to hopefully acquire, say, at least a primary school diploma, so they at least wouldn't live in such an awful situation as you.
Long story short, what this meant was the rise of a new class of intellectuals of - and this is the key part - peasant origin. And the thing about the Lithuanian peasantry was that it was hardly touched by the Slavification of the upper classes. Throughout centuries, the nobility cared little about the language of their serfs - for all they cared, a serf only needs to know the basic prayers and commands in a language he understands and he's good to go - nor did they allow any sort of social or geographic mobility for their peasants, and as such, while the nobility of Lithuania, Ruthenia and Russia molded into one, the serfs retained their customs and language. This new intelligentsia, whether Lithuanian, Ruthenian or Russian speaking, was usually closely aligned with the ideals of Nationalism, and in the case of the Lithuanians themselves, it culminated in the Lithuanian National Revival.
Considered by historians to have fully begun in the 1830s, the National Revival was marked by a jump in interest in Lithuanian culture, language and traditions, in order to preserve them and strengthen them. It was very closely aligned with the Romanticist movement, which was all in favor of drawing inspiration from history and national traditions in general, and many of the thinkers of the Revival were poets, proseists and artists themselves. Around this time, such writers like Artūras Medelys, creator of the national epic "Margiris" about the Lithuanian-Teutonic Wars and considered by Lithuanians to be "our Dorokhov", Jonas Bumblauskas, who wrote a number of poems about Pre-Christian Lithuania, and Saulius Štombergas, famous for writing the hymn which would later become the national anthem of Lithuania, rose to fame, even if ridiculed by the upper classes due to their peasant birth. Linguist Jonas Kazlauskas was the first to codify and standardize the Lithuanian language, and he famously commented that "the Lithuanian language of today is fifty percent Slavic and fifty percent actually Lithuanian - but we'll turn that fifty percent into a hundred". Indeed, in the 1850s and 1860s, the Lithuanian language was extremely infested with words and often entire forms of grammar borrowed from surrounding languages, to the point that it was hard to the people of the time to read the oldest Lithuanian language manuscripts from the time of Jogaila the Great.
The results of the National Revival were many, but the biggest one was the formation of a Lithuanian national identity, separate from the contemporary Empire of Lithuania, and the rise of the Lithuanian nationalist movement.
What was the opinion of the imperial government on these events? However paradoxical it may be - negative, very negative. To the highest echelons of the nobility, the Lithuanian National Revival was not only weird and too much of a "peasant affair", but also outright dangerous. The Lithuanian nationalist movement did not have as much of a tolerance for the Slavs as the upper classes built up over the years, far from it. And in some ways, the Lithuanian nationalists were even more threatening to the Empire than Russians or Ruthenians - but to explain this paradox, we need to go over the policy the imperial government held towards their Slavic subjects since the Restoration.
Jonas II was the first to realize that the constant threat of a new Russian revolt was not an opportunity for target practice, but a development that could lead to the collapse of the entire Empire, and thus, a few years after the Emancipation Manifesto, he formulated a new policy towards the Slavs that would replace the Hetmanate's Eastern Strategy - Mutual Understanding ("Tarpusavio supratimas"). Most of the oppressive policies against the Russians, like the futile attempts to split the Russian language into two and a ban on purchasing land in Lithuania Propria, were dropped, and in essence, Mutual Understanding stated that "as long as you are calm, we will be soft". It was around this time that Russian magnates and nobles finally received a say in how they are ruled via the "Designated Easterner Seat" in Jonas II's Council of Lords, the "designated" meaning that it could only be held by a person from Russia. Thus, in that sense, at least one member of the Emperor's closest advisors was from Russia (Ruthenians held many seats in the court since the 15th-16th centuries, so they had no need for a designated seat). With these changes, Jonas II sacrificed Imperial arrogance in favor of an uneasy peace in the land, and Mutual Understanding was moderately successful, judging by the fact that no major Russian insurgencies happened in the 19th century. In addition, it was a stepping stone for a potential federalization.
However, the Lithuanian National Revival threatened to destroy all that the Imperial government built to stabilize the Empire. Lithuanian nationalists were straightforward in their rhetoric - "Lithuania must be for Lithuanians", and the rise of their movement heavy heightened the tensions between the Lithuanians and Slavs, to the point that, starting with the 1850s, the Ruthenian and Russian nationalist movements to a straight turn towards blunt anti-Lithuanian and anti-imperial rhetoric. It was this rise in tensions that forced Emperor Žygimantas II to sign a decree banning most of the Lithuanian nationalist circles and forcing them to go underground.
Lithuanians cracking down on Lithuanian nationalists!
Of course, Imperial oppression was not the only thing hurting the National Revival - for one, much like many other nationalist movements of it's time, it began to split and fracture into a number of successors, which disagreed on a number of questions. The biggest one plagues the nationalists since the beginning of the movement - what should be done with the Empire? On one hand, it serves as a major brewing ground for Slavic influence in Lithuanian culture and language, but on the other, abandoning all these past conquests for which the ancestors spilled so much blood?.. This is where the movement split. One wing of the National Revival, the Republicans ("Respublikonai"), openly declared that the Emperor and the Empire are a threat to the Lithuanian nation and thus must be overthrown through a revolution in order to establish a democratic, independent Lithuanian nation-state. As expected, they were cracked down the most, although many of them also contributed to the Ispudia movement. The other wing, the Imperialists ("Imperialistai"), were in favor of retaining the Empire, but with a return of anti-Slavic policies to protect the integrity of Lithuanian culture. Many of them were National Unitarians, or often outright National Lindemanists - although, in this instance, with some local flavor, as described below.
The Sarmatians were an Iranian culture from the Antiquity, sparsely mentioned in Greek and Roman sources as a branch of the Scythians and a rival to the Roman Empire, dominating most of Eastern Europe. In particular, many at the time interpreted that the Sarmatians ruled over the ancestors to the Slavs. Now, ascribing your nation to an ancient or mythological culture and claiming to be the ancestors of this "superior nation" was not uncommon in Nationalism-era Europe at the time - the French, Italians and Spanish, obviously, claimed the Romans, Brits declared themselves to be the successors of the Lost Tribe of Israel, Hungarians ascribed the Avars to their history, Germans and Scandinavians shamefully stole the Aryans from Indian Vedas - but the Lithuanian nationalists, most of them on the extreme side, declared that the word "Sarmatian" is just an ancient name for "Lithuanian", and as such, the Lithuanians must have ruled the Slavs for over two millennia - so it must be natural for Lithuanians to rule over the Slavs, it is their birthright, isn't it? The National Lindemanists in Lithuania turned into the Sarmatist movement, which claimed that they were the "Sarmatian master race" and thus designated to rule over Eastern Europe and the "inferior" Slavs which inhabit it. Crazy.
Now, despite the crackdowns and the splinter groups vying for domination, the Lithuanian National Revival nevertheless turned into a nationwide phenomenon among Lithuanians, even finding supporters in the highest echelons of the government - which sparked the rise of a counter-movement, the Aesti-Slavists. These intellectuals, many of whom were nobles, declared a different view on the origin of the Lithuanian nation - according to them, Lithuanians used to be Slavs who just ended up influenced by Germans and other language groups, but are now being brought back into their fold, and as such, there can't be anything like a "Lithuanian national identity", because there is no "Lithuanian nation". The Aesti-Slavists were usually supporters of federalizing the Empire and reforming it into "Slavica", a union of Slavs under the guidance of the Emperor of the House of Gediminas. This movement was supported by the Emperor and his court, but failed to gain more widespread popularity among the lower classes.
While all of this is going on, interesting events were happening in Latgale at the time. After the conquest of Livonia in the 1600s, the Lithuanians declared that "Latgalians" and other nationalities similar to Lithuanian to the north of Lithuania Propria are not real nations, but rather are just Germanized Lithuanians who forgot their origins, and thus must be brought back into "Mother Lithuania" as quickly as possible. Assimilation was slow at the beginning, but intensified in the 18th and 19th centuries, with Courland completely integrated into greater Lithuania and Latgale soon to follow. The position of Voivode of Courland-Lettigallia was one of the few positions of government where Lithuanian nationalists were periodically appointed - the Emperors knew that nationally-minded Lithuanians would continue to pursue assimilation of the locals, which they were completely right to believe, as that was indeed the case. Meanwhile, linguists and anthropologists across Europe constantly protested the policies enacted by the Lithuanian government, claiming that if the Latgalian language is lost, then an important piece of linguistic history will be gone forever.
And they were not kidding. One of the most famous researchers of the Indo-European language, Joseph Joffre, made a number of visits in the region, and he concluded that Latgalian is "the most conservative living language in the Indo-European family", and it had retained most of the features of Proto-Indo-European, making it extremely valuable in linguistic studies. He once even stated this: "Anyone who wants to hear how the Indo-Europeans spoke should come listen to a Latgalian peasant". It was Joffre, in fact, who first coined the term "Aesti languages", with the name originating from the Roman term for ancestors of Latgalians and Lithuanians, as a way to refer to the two languages of the Eastern Baltic coast. As scientists across Europe rushed to Latgale to record a dying, but extremely valuable language, the Lithuanian government simply shrugged their heads. What's in it for them?
The Lithuanian National Revival can be interpreted in many ways. On one hand, it managed to save a dying language and even reverse the effects of assimilation in many places in Eastern Lithuania due to codifying the language and teaching it's basics to the peasantry. On the other hand, however, it accelerated the death of the Empire of Lithuania, and some of it's splinter movements were... well, responsible for some terrible things.
Once again, history is never black nor white.
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This is probably the worst map I have made in a while, but here it is, a language map of the Empire of Lithuania in 1870:
I think the colors are mostly self-explanatory (for not so obvious colors, light green in the very south is Circassian, tan in the southeast is Volgak, dark blue in the east is Mordvin, minor grey specks along the Baltic Sea are German, light blue around OTL St. Petersburg is Ingrian, brown-ish green in the northwest is Karelian and brown in the north are minor Finno-Ugric "Samoyed" languages like Komi and Nenets)
Striped territory represents regions which are populated by a mixed population of more than one language speakers.
As a reference point, Vilnius, the capital, is roughly in the center of the mixed Lithuanian-Ruthenian area in eastern Lithuania Propria (i.e. roughly OTL Lithuania)
And as a reminder, this map represents the majority of the population, i.e. the lower classes, not simply the nobility, which is pretty much majority Slavic across the entire nation at this point.
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Anyway, the next update will be the last in this special chapter chain, as I decided to roll two minor chapters into one. One will be about a city, the other about a song.
We're getting closer and closer to a very important story arc. One that I've been anticipating since pretty much the beginning of the TL
Sorry for not answering your question earlier, I had already started writing in the draft and couldn't just delete it. To make up for it, I included the answer in this update (basically, Jonas II realized it's a stupid idea and cancelled it).
So then, as I've stated, we are pretty much at the end of what is basically the world's longest intermission, and I've got a question: was it worthwhile? Was spending the time to jump around from country to country a good way to build the world of the TL or did you think it detract too much from the flow? I'm looking to improve and I'd love to hear your opinions.
Also, while we're at it - perhaps you have any favorites among the nations introduced? Any things that caught your attention more than the others? That would help me a lot as well.
Also, while we're at it - perhaps you have any favorites among the nations introduced? Any things that caught your attention more than the others? That would help me a lot as well.
You slipped some clues that Lithunian nationalists will rise but i didn't think it that this movement would be so powerful the future seem be really bad for emperor of Lithuania i wonder how other countries will react to this many russian nationalist are unhappy to see the rise of Lithuanian nationalists so the emperor make the wise choice to fight against Lithuanian nationalism movment but wil be enough for Ruthenian and Russian ? i'm really intriguated to see what will happen
I'm really happy to see what other country doing it add realism and depth to history, now i'm curious to see what they will become and how they will elvove.
Personally as often i get a soft spot for France but i really like the idea of this industrial France and their fight against Germania cause a big shock and promises great change to them so i'm curious to see what will happen.
It's nice to see that Nationalism isn't going one-way in Lithuania, although as always it damages a multicultural empire. Also, I had been wondering what kind of pseudo-histories would develop in this world, so mentioning them was a nice touch.
Yep, federalism would definitely be their best bet. Some form of democratic representation would also help, although unless they did some serious constitutional wrangling involving representation the Lithuanians would be dominated by the Russians and Ruthenians. I wonder what this hypothetical federation would be called?
Also, and this is something I just thought of, I wonder if we'll get any Volga German analogues? Obviously Lithuania doesn't control the Volga ITTL, or at least not to the degree that Russia did in OTL, but I could still see one of the rulers pulling a Catherine and inviting in some foreigners to try and counter the natives. Relations seem calm enough right now that such a step would be unnecessary - and detrimental - but if things heat up again in the future it could happen. Who knows, maybe we'll get an enclave of Scottish people who fled from Britannia settled on the Svir in an attempt to "counter Russian expansion" or convert the Finno-Ugrics if they're still pagan?
Special Chapter: Jewel in the East/We Were Born as Lithuanians
Special Chapter
A Jewel in the East
The center of the city was undoubtedly the Lower Castle, a part of the Vilnius Castle Complex and usually referred to as the Palace of the Emperors (Lith. "Ciesorių rūmai"). Originally commissioned by Queen Sofija of Lithuania, it was finished in 1609, built on the foundations of the old Palace of the Grand Dukes that stood there, and the time of it's construction is represented in it's style, built as a mixture of late Renaissance and early Baroque techniques. While, obviously, it's primary function was to house the Emperors of Lithuania, it served as much more than that. This was where the Emperor would meet foreign diplomatic missions and visiting heads of state, organize meetings with his advisors and other important domestic figures, and the palace was also a major culture hub. It hosted a cathedral and the Imperial Library, the largest of such institutions in the Empire, which held well over two million texts. Outside of the splendid royal palace, Vilnius was famous as the "city of a hundred churches", and this expression was not far from the truth. With so many cultures and religions living in the capital, each of them needed their own religious buildings and shrines, and outside of the two dozen or so Orthodox churches, the most famous of which was the Sobor of St. Peter and Paul, one of the new World Wonders, Vilnius also hosted a number of synagogues, many Catholic, Reformist, Volanite and Flammantian churches, three mosques and a number of other holy sites for less famous religions and branches like Karaites. The capital's importance as a center of learning is not to be underestimated, either, most notably in the presence of the University of Vilnius, the supreme institution of higher education in Eastern Europe. While it mostly accepted students from within the Empire, foreign students were also appreciated, although their number always remained small in comparison to, say, French or Italian universities. The University was the alma mater of a number of Emperors, many advisors, magnates and nobles, poets and artists, inventors and scientists, philosophers and businessmen, and it always held a major place in the Lithuanian education system.
Vilnius was always known as a very multicultural city, and the Industrial Revolution only increased the intensity of this phenomenon. Even though the surrounding area did not have much in the way of heavy resources - although a major source of iron ore was discovered in Dainava in the late 19th century - but an industrial center nevertheless arose in the city, focused on light, not very resource intensive industry, like woodcutting and woodwork, food and textile production and glass blowing. This industry, and the general higher standard of living in Vilnius when compared to the rest of the nation, meant that it attracted a lot of immigrants from the entire Empire.
In the 1870 national census, Vilnius was counted to house 624 561 permanent residents, divided into a number of ethnicities, as listed here by order of population:
38% Jewish
26% Lithuanian
21% Ruthenian
8% Russian
3% Polish
4% other:
- 1.1% German
- 1% Latgalian
- 0.6% Karaite
- 0.5% Tatar
- 0.3% Estonian
- 0.1% Volgak
- 0.1% Mordvin
- 0.1% Circassian
- 0.1% other not mentioned
Vilnius was one of the few places in the Empire of Lithuania where so many nationalities managed to live together in harmony and peace. It was a glimmering example of an unreachable utopia in a nation drawing closer and closer to ethnic struggles...
A street in 19th century Vilnius
We Were Born as Lithuanians
Originally composed by Saulius Štombergas in 1831, "Lietuviais esame mes gimę", ("We Were Born as Lithuanians") was meant to be a song upholding and presenting the renaissance of interest in Lithuanian culture that was the National Revival, as well as the endurance the Lithuanian language will need to avoid extinction, but it eventually became the unofficial anthem of the Empire of Lithuania - or at least it's ethnic Lithuanian parts. It's unofficial status was later lifted and the song itself ascended to become the official anthem of Lithuania in the 20th century.
Štombergas's version was much longer than nowadays is sung, but the shortened, singing version, used for the anthem, is as follows:
English translation (not in rhythm):
Readers of the time enjoyed the power of the anthem when sung, but many were perplexed by it's complexity, and the singing version was also quite shift. Nevertheless, it managed to win the hearts of Lithuanians in the end, following them throughout the many wars of the 20th century.
The National Anthem being performed
And it's over! With the next update, we will return to the year 1870 to continue with the TL, and that is when I will also post a map of the world in that year.
Interesting things are going to happen pretty soon. Here are some hints to liven the discussion up a bit:
"[...] is the world's largest cake, and all we want is our own slice."
"For the Fatherland! For that Fatherland, more valuable than all of our lives!.. For if you die for the eternal Wiedererstehung [...] you will live forever!"
"The end goal of the [...] alliance is national self-determination, particularly in the hives of evil known as [...] and [...]"
"We, the Provisional Government of [...] call all of the peoples of our nation to unite, to destroy this centuries-long yoke that only now we have the chance to break [...]"
"War has changed"
"For the Fatherland! For that Fatherland, more valuable than all of our lives!.. For if you die for the eternal Wiedererstehung [...] you will live forever!"
"The end goal of the [...] alliance is national self-determination, particularly in the hives of evil known as [...] and [...]"
"We, the Provisional Government of [...] call all of the peoples of our nation to unite, to destroy this centuries-long yoke that only now we have the chance to break [...]"
"War has changed"
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