The Silver Knight, a Lithuania Timeline

What's your opinion on The Silver Knight so far?


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@Augenis

Do my eyes deceive me, or is the eastern border of France upto the Rhine?
Not up to the Rhine, but they do have Wallonia and most of Lorraine.

So, a couple of things:

1) Huh, so I guess it was just a title change after all... oh well.

2) It seems more and more like Lithuania is going to end up doing basically the same things Russia did. It makes sense, since there are reasons that Russia did those things, but it's a bit of a let down y'know?

3) Lithuania hasn't really had an incompetent leader who fucks everything up yet, which is the hallmark of every great country. They've had some overconfident leaders, I remember that, but not any I'd really call incompetent.

4) I had a random ass idea that has basically nothing to do with this timeline, but now that I've had it I can't help but not bring it up in some way. I've always thought it would be interesting to have a 'Gypsy'/Romani country exist, but something like it obviously never really happened IOTL. The most likely place for one to exist in would be either the Balkans or in 'Russia' somewhere, and I thought "Hey, maybe Lithuania could have something like that happen in that timeline I like reading". I have no idea how, or why, this would happen (Maybe it could be related to that incompetent leader? The king is so bad he gets the royal family temporarily overthrown and, in their time in exile, the one who eventually ends up retaking the throne befriends/gains a fondness for the Romani people? I dunno.) and I don't actually expect you to do anything with this idea, but if I didn't bring it up it my brain would nag me about it.
These are valid points. I understand that Lithuania has been going pretty lightly so far, yes.

I'll try to answer some of the things:

1) Well, I don't know if it's a meaningless title change, considering that Lithuania has pretty much declared itself to be the Third Rome, but yes, it was a title change I suppose I should've remembered that some people like heavy plot twists, but I'm a simple man.

2) That's an interesting thought. Well, I don't know how much similar TTL Lithuania is to OTL Russia domestically, but in regards to foreign affairs, I agree that there are reasons for why Russia did that thing or other thing and those reasons didn't go away in this TL.

3) Teodoras I was not particularly competent, in my opinion - his reign heavily damaged relations with the West, left Lithuania culturally and economically backwards and pretty much led to the foundation of Visegrad - but I agree that there hasn't been a completely incompetent ruler of Lithuania. Though the reason for that would be that I don't really plan Lithuania to completely collapse anytime soon.

And also because I am a fierce opponent of great man theory. Awful leaders are a symptom, not a cause, and if and when Lithuania collapses, it would be up to much wider overarching factors rather than just a dumb emperor. :)

4) Interesting. I haven't thought much about the future of the Roma/Gypsy people (though their arrival to Lithuania and rest of Europe has not been butterflied away), to be honest. Them creating a state would be interesting, and I haven't seen that much across the site.

How long did France control the West Bank of the Rhine? Anyways, I hope they hold it.

Sounds like Visegrad is going to be in for some REAL pain in the future :)

Surprising lack of Colonization in the Americas by the Europeans. What's holding them up? And what has the Tawantinsuyu been up to over the past century? I doubt they would sit and twiddle their thumbs for so long, even with no Europeans around.

HANG ON. Did you make this map using the province map from an Europa Universalis game? :I
I'll explain about the ending of the Twenty Years' War (or the Catholic-Reformist War) in the next update (that's where the French pushed east), and I'll give a bit of an update on the rest of the world, too. The Incas and the Portuguese established a thing that let them profit from the wars in Europe.

And the reason for slow European colonization is much stronger native American opposition and the wars that plague Europe. England is isolationist, and the potential colonizers - France, the Netherlands, Sweden, Spain - have been embroiled in wars until recently. Colonization is a costly endeavor, but now that Europe has calmed down, it's sure to speed up.

And yes, I use the EU4 province map :p
 
These are valid points. I understand that Lithuania has been going pretty lightly so far, yes.

I'll try to answer some of the things:

1) Well, I don't know if it's a meaningless title change, considering that Lithuania has pretty much declared itself to be the Third Rome, but yes, it was a title change I suppose I should've remembered that some people like heavy plot twists, but I'm a simple man.

2) That's an interesting thought. Well, I don't know how much similar TTL Lithuania is to OTL Russia domestically, but in regards to foreign affairs, I agree that there are reasons for why Russia did that thing or other thing and those reasons didn't go away in this TL.

3) Teodoras I was not particularly competent, in my opinion - his reign heavily damaged relations with the West, left Lithuania culturally and economically backwards and pretty much led to the foundation of Visegrad - but I agree that there hasn't been a completely incompetent ruler of Lithuania. Though the reason for that would be that I don't really plan Lithuania to completely collapse anytime soon.

And also because I am a fierce opponent of great man theory. Awful leaders are a symptom, not a cause, and if and when Lithuania collapses, it would be up to much wider overarching factors rather than just a dumb emperor. :)

4) Interesting. I haven't thought much about the future of the Roma/Gypsy people (though their arrival to Lithuania and rest of Europe has not been butterflied away), to be honest. Them creating a state would be interesting, and I haven't seen that much across the site.

1) I kind of underplayed how big that was for Lithuania, yeah, but I was just expecting a change bigger than 'we now declare ourselves an empire'.

2) Honestly, the outward growth thing isn't what I was really complaining about. I perfectly understand that Lithuania would likely end up following a similar, if not the same, pattern of growth to Russia. The thing that's been dissapointing me (just a little bit, it's not anything that will stop me from enjoying this excellent TL) is that Lithuania is growing increasingly autocratic, just like Russia did. Otherwise it's a fair bit more liberal than OTL Russia was at that point in time.

3) A country can have an incompetent leader without collapsing, you know. It could be something as simple as choosing the wrong allies ("I, Mr Lithuanian King Person II, think that it is a totally good idea to ally ourselves with that Germany king who hates our guts!") or making some goals that they just can't achieve ("Shit, let's take Constantinople even though the Ottomans are at the height of their power and the other great powers will get pissed off at us if we do!"), to something as bad as reversing good decisions made by previous leaders ("How dare the previous king give those revolting peasants more civil rights! Let's undo that right about... now!") or focusing on the wrong issue ("Our economy is regressing and our hostile neighbor's is growing, but instead of worrying about that I'm going to pass some laws to discriminate against that minority I don't like and invest in mining!").

4) I'd be happy if you did include something like that, and it would help The Silver Knight stand out, but like I said it was just a random idea I had that my brain wouldn't let me not bring up. Feel free to do whatever you want with it, even if that's nothing.

And yes, I use the EU4 province map :p

My brother of an african-american athnicity. :D
 
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1) I kind of underplayed how big that was for Lithuania, yeah, but I was jus texpecting a change bigger than 'we now declare ourselves an empire'.

2) Honestly, the outward growth thing isn't what I was really complaining about. I perfectly understand that Lithuania would likely end up following a similar, if not the same, pattern of growth to Russia. The thing that's been dissapointing me (just a little bit, it's not anything that will stop me from enjoying this excellent TL) is that Lithuania is growing increasingly autocratic, just like Russia did. Otherwise it's a fair bit more liberal than OTL Russia was at that point in time.

3) A country can have an incompetent leader without collapsing, you know. It could be something as simple as choosing the wrong allies ("I, Mr Lithuanian King Person II, think that it is a totally good idea to ally ourselves with that Germany king who hates our guts!") or making some goals that they just can't achieve ("Shit, let's take Constantinople even though the Ottomans are at the height of their power and the other great powers will get pissed off at us if we do!"), to something as bad as reversing good decisions made by previous leaders ("How dare the previous king give those revolting peasants more civil rights! Let's undo that right about... now!") or focusing on the wrong issue ("Our economy is regressing and our hostile neighbor's is growing, but instead of worrying about that I'm going to pass some laws to discriminate against that minority I don't like and invest in mining!").

4) I'd be happy if you did include something like that, and it would help The Silver Knight stand out, but like I said it was just a random idea I had that my brain wouldn't let me not bring up. Feel free to do whatever you want with it, even if that's nothing.
1) :)

2) I understand. My thought process behind it was that between a republican, proto-democratic France and a PLC-esque Visegrad noble monarchy, Lithuania would be the best option for an absolutist "counterweight" to the two, seeing as Orthodoxy is a very top-to-down religion and without Poland the Lithuanians wouldn't have a tradition of a political nobility.

Thanks for the kind words for the TL though, I appreciate that!

3) Well, Teodoras I was similar to that - instead of keeping up good relations with the West and following his father's footsteps like what should've been done, he made Lithuania into an isolated pariah and embroiled his country into a massive war to score some glory points - a war that he lost spectacularly and ended up creating Visegrad in the process.

Of course, Lithuania has been lucky so far with it's kings, but I'll keep your points in mind.

4) danke
 
Awesome updates. The autocracy sounds plausible indeed. Even more so now that future wars with the Ottomans and in the continental confessional disputes are likely to keep everyone busy for quite a while.
 
Chapter 35: A Lifetime of War
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Part 35: A Lifetime of War (1625-1630)

The Twenty Years' War, as the people of Europe eventually learned to call the Catholic-Reformist war, ended exactly where it started - in Austria. Emperor Maximilian IV died in 1622, and the Austrian front of the war essentially turned into an Austrian succession war between the Reformist Prince Charles and the Catholic Prince Augustin. Augustin was young and had little experience in warfare or ruling the nation, while Charles was battle hardened, found more and more support among the people, and had nearby allies in the form of the Munich League, and this difference led to the result of the war in Austria. For a while, Vienna and it's surroundings were propped up and kept alive by Visegrad, but when the Ottomans declared war on them, the capital was soon overrun by the Reformist forces, and Austria was united under a single Archduke once again. Prince Augustin, meanwhile, received the execution axe.

The Holy Roman Empire has been decapitated! After numerous French victories in Northern Italy and Lorraine, this was the final blow in the morale of the Catholic crusaders, and countries began asking for peace left and right. Visegrad was the first to sue for peace, followed by almost all of the members of the Catholic Crusade. It was such a large contingent, that a common peace treaty had to be drawn, done in Amsterdam. The Treaty of Amsterdam in 1630 ushered in a new order to Europe - borders were redrawn, new great powers arose and others sunk deep down, and both sides agreed to tolerate both religions in the Holy Roman Empire. Err... Holy Roman Empire? This former giant of Europe was rapidly disintegrating. The Reformists, hoping to transform the defensive Munich League into something more tangible, while at the same time wary of too radical change, offered the crown of the Holy Roman Emperor to Charles of Austria, crowning him as Charles V Habsburg, which caused furious reactions from most of Europe. A Reformist as the Holy Roman Emperor?! Insane! The Pope refused to crown Charles, so it was done in Vienna under a Reformist pastor, and the Catholics began mobilizing for a second round. However, both sides were too tired and exhausted by war to begin the first move, and while the "Holy" Roman Empire remained as an institution, the Catholic North German principalities and free cities left the Empire one after the other, as well as the republics and monarchies of Northern Italy, leaving the HRE as a shell of it's former self, dominated by Reformists, but more centralized than before.​

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Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor
The war caused over seven million casualties, both military and civilian, almost nine percent of the population of Europe at the time, and it shaped the history of the continent for decades and centuries to come. Many regions were utterly devastated by the conflict, some losing over half of their population in the end. Among the many cases of social trauma caused on the collective populace was the beginning of mass witch hunts across both Catholic and Reformist states - the frustrated, angry peasantry would lash out on anyone but themselves in light of the disasters upon them. On the other hand, however, the mass demographic shock caused the speeding up of economic and cultural development in central Europe, especially Germany.

France was among the few countries you could call the "victors" in the war. During the Twenty Years' War, the French armies successfully defeated the Spaniards and Italians, dealt devastating blows to Imperial armies in Lorraine and Wallonia, annexing both of these French-populated lands into the Republic. Despite being less than a hundred years old, France already secured his place among the small circle of European great powers, ranking among Spain, Lithuania and the Ottoman Empire and slowly turning into a continental hegemon. Throughout the later stages of the conflict, France was headed by Director-General Jean-Baptiste Colbert, and his rule is considered to be the beginning of the so-called "French Golden Age". Under Colbert's 15 year rule, France rapidly began to transform to an urbanized, capitalist society, where the ancient guild system was being replaced by manufactories and the wealth and power within the state gravitated from the feudal nobility to the growing class of burghers and capitalists, the bourgeoisie. During the 17th century, the Republic became a center of learning and innovation in science and technology, and it's wealth was staggering even compared to most of it's neighbors, where the development of modern era capitalism was slowed by the conservative and often reactionary monarchist regimes ruling them. Flanders and Wallonia, as well as the Paris region, were rapidly becoming the biggest industrial centers of Europe, where competition was so fierce that capitalists and landowners had to constantly look out for even the most minute or recent inventions to gain an edge over their competitors.

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Director-General Jean-Baptiste Colbert, and the unofficial flag of Republican France, used by the French army and merchant ships. A variant without the coat of arms was also commonly used.
The Netherlands, while a war participant on the Reformist side, got off very lightly, and after annexing Gelre and Friesland, the Free State finalized it's ambition of uniting all Dutch under one banner. Not only that, but the success of the Dutch fleet in the North Sea ensured their trade dominance in the region for years to come, and the growing Dutch colonial holdings in North Vespucia - New Netherland - was steadily growing due to an influx of war refugees and lucrative fur trade deals with the nearby Algonquin and Iroquois tribes. New Netherland was perhaps the least homogenous society in the New World - while Dutch was the official language, neither the majority of the populace nor the all of the colonial government were Dutch. There were Walloons, Frenchmen, many natives, slaves from Africa and nearby Native Vespucians. Unlike the cash crop Carribean and South Vespucian colonies that Spain and Portugal held, New Netherland functioned more as it's own society, though still subservient to the Free State. Around the same time, the Dutch merchant Willem Verhulst sailed around Africa, passing India and eventually arriving to Guangzhou, and was the first European who reached China through the "around Africa" route and not sailing under the Portuguese flag. The riches of China, India and Japan enticed the merchants of the Netherlands just as much as they did the Portuguese a hundred years ago, and East India was set to become a field for heavy competition between the two naval powers.

England was the only Catholic participant of the Twenty Years' War that was not present in the negotiations for the Treaty of Amsterdam - they were only at war with a limited range of opponents and had peaced out years before. 1627 marked the death of William III of England, the unifier of the British Isles under the English banner and the Catholic faith. His successor, Charles I, was a notable member of the Puritan movement, and a strong follower in divine right and absolutism. Under his rule, England was transformed into the Kingdom of Britannia. The parliamentary system was disbanded and replaced with the King's absolute power - not without blood being spilled, of course. The followers of the Parliament took arms in revolt, but the King enjoyed popular support, especially from the devout English and Irish Catholics, and his "New Order" armies, often called the "Roundheads", named the former due to the numerous military innovations applied within their ranks and their strict discipline and the latter for the cropped heads of many Puritans, prevailed over the Parliamentary forces. Under Charles I, numerous leisure activities, such as theatre and sports, were banned, and the King freely ruled by decree and appointed the Ministers, only listening to the Lord and his Faith, as they say. Britannia became the first fully absolute monarchy in Europe, and while the Puritans were oppressive, the centralization and security that the King provided gave stability to the nation, and despite it's isolation, Britannia was developing just as swiftly as it's peers.

Sweden pretty much traded Livonia for Norway by the end of the War, and while it was definitely a fair trade, the Scandinavian nation found itself to be increasingly isolated as time went on. Both of it's neighbors - Denmark and Lithuania - were hostile for obvious reasons, and their allies in North Germany were only aligned due to opportunism and taking down a common foe. Britannia was also unwilling to cooperate, and the fanaticism of the English Puritans discouraged Erik XV from getting too close to hem and possible inciting something similar in Scandinavia. This diplomatic isolation led to the Swedes to look towards the sea - and towards the New World, no less. Sweden already had a little bit of experience in colonization in the form of Lapland and Finland, and the rumors of lucrative fur trade, cash crops and whaling opportunities gave additional incentive to look towards the seas.

Portugal was one of the few powers in Europe that stayed neutral throughout the entire conflict, and in the end of the Twenty Years' War, it ended up much wealthier than before. To understand the reason for this, one needs to look no further than South Vespucia. In the last years of the 16th century, the Inca Empire, inhabiting vast swathes of the Andes, had recently discovered massive reserves of silver in Sumaq Urqu, as well as in many other locations across the mountains, which instantly attracted the Portuguese like butterflies to a candle light. Because outright conquest of the Incas, or Tawantinsuyu as called in their language, was impossible to the Europeans, they instead offered a trade - silver for European production, like guns, weapons, alcohol and similar. The size of this trade route dramatically increased during the Twenty Years' War, when demand for precious metals and raw materials became almost astronomical, leading to what is often called The Silver Road, stretching from Cuzco to Manuel City, the capital of Portuguese Manuela. Both of these empires benefited from the trade route - Porugal could acquire large amounts of silver and gold for a much smaller price than, say, from Carinthian mines, while the Inca were touched by the winds of modernization and began to adopt Western technology. Cultural exchanges also began, and this contact between two alien cultures brought interesting hijinks - the Inca were shocked that the Portuguese used things like "carts" to transport goods, while the Europeans were astonished by the complex mountain road and bridge network across the country. Outside of South Vespucia, profits from trade in East Asia also flocked to Lisbon, and while the wealth that this colonial empire acquired was staggering, it was bound to attract rivals.

Spain, while a colonial empire much like Portugal, was not in as good of a position after the War. The Spanish treasury was drained, it's positions in Italy weakened, and it's former great power status overshadowed by France, but the nation was quick to recover. Much like Britannia, Spain was treading towards a path of absolutism, though the power of the King was not as supreme as in the British Isles. Spain's defeat in the continent brought much more attention by it's kings to it's colonies in the Caribbean and Vespucia, places where the empire could expand freely and bash on unsuspecting natives to "regain it's pride". During the Twenty Years' War, the governor of Spanish Central Vespucia, Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, made and commanded numerous conquistador expeditions into the Yucatan peninsula, subjugating the small Mayan statelets in the region, and his successes in the field gave him noticeable PR in the eyes of the Royal Court, enough to continue funding the conquest efforts even long after Cervantes's death in 1628. Interesting developments around that era was the introduction of cotton to the Vespucias, first brought to the Spanish colony of Luisiana (named after Luis I, former King of Spain) to be cultivated as a cash crop. Back home, however, Spain was nowhere near willing to remain as the second fiddle to France in European hegemony...

But whatever disdain Spain felt was nothing compared to some of it's peers. Especially Germany. Germany was burned, raped and salted during the War ten times over. Many cities were destroyed completely. Many regions lost over half of their population. The pride of the region was crushed even further - both sides had to rely on foreign assistance to even stand a chance against their opponents, after all. And what's worse - the nation, formerly united, albeit barely, under the Holy Roman Empire, was now split in half. While the southern states banded under the reformed Holy Roman banner, the northern coast and it's duchies and cities left the Empire, and, fearing a second Reformist invasion, formed the loose North German Communion, headed by the Hamburg-Lübeck Union of Free Cities. Germany was now a battleground for the great powers of Europe to play around in and influence to their side, but the German spirit was not gone yet. Despite the gigantic loss of life that he region had endured, those who lived had access to surprisingly higher standards of living, and it is no surprise that Germany eventually developed to be one of the fastest growing regions of Europe. The South German statelets, most of them Reformist, enjoyed the same "bourgeoisization" and development of capitalism as France had, North Germany went through a similar process, and it started to look clear that if Germany were to be a single country, rather than thousands of little states, it could truly shake the balance of Europe.

But that is a story for a different time.

Modern Europe will never be the same as it used to be before the Twenty Years' War, however. Massive, gigantic changes were on the horizon, and none of the Europeans know that they were coming, either.
 
Well. We're pretty much at 20 pages now, which is... big.

Back when I was writing my first post in this thread, I never thought that I'd get this far. I totally wished for it to happen, though. :p

So, as far as I can tell, anyway, we have a little bit of a community here. I see a dozen regular faces reading, commenting and giving likes on almost every update. So let's talk a little! How did you find this TL?

Did you just stumble upon it in the Before 1900 subforum, or did you find it linked somewhere? I'm interested in hearing your stories.
 
I stumbled onto it.
Don't comment often as I unfortunately know little about the period. But I must say I enjoy the butterflies with Spain not being a superpower, Portugal punching even more above it's weight and getting the Inca for themselves.
Moreover, I like a TL that has Sweden in control of Norway. A country who can now focus on defensible borders in Finland, and continue to look overseas.
Did Norway's overseas territories stay with it, or did Denmark receive them?

Also, percentage-wise, what size is the Baltic population within Lithuania?
 
I stumbled onto it.
Don't comment often as I unfortunately know little about the period. But I must say I enjoy the butterflies with Spain not being a superpower, Portugal punching even more above it's weight and getting the Inca for themselves.
Moreover, I like a TL that has Sweden in control of Norway. A country who can now focus on defensible borders in Finland, and continue to look overseas.
Did Norway's overseas territories stay with it, or did Denmark receive them?

Also, percentage-wise, what size is the Baltic population within Lithuania?
Denmark still controls Norway's overseas territories, as per the map.

And regarding the Balts in Lithuania - well, not big. I'd say 10-15 percent is a good estimate.
 
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