The Silver Knight, a Lithuania Timeline

What's your opinion on The Silver Knight so far?


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in Russia "The Great Tsardom of Lithuania and Russia" - a popular theme.
I've read some Russian discussions about it (while I'm not fluent in Russian, I can more or less understand it), but I didn't think it would be all that popular.

Although I guess it's an interesting alternative to Muscovite Russia, for both Lithuanians and Russians alike. We don't talk much about alternate history here, but many agree that if this were to happen, Lithuanian would be an endangered language by the 20th century. :)
 
The "to victory or virgin lands" really interest me. Even more so that these are citizens rather than nobility so Serfdom becomes unlikely. Will Russia be even further East TTL if the seek out virgin lands? I truly hope so, otherwise Lithuania-Russia will have a history of blood letting from two huge ethnics who hate each other.
 
Why would Lithuanian be an endangered language? I don't know nearly as much about the subject as you so I'm curious
Its current number of speakers is drastically reduced due to centuries of attempted assimilation so if we find them in charge then I am curious about the future of the language, from my point of view would it not be larger if there wasn't a constant effort to assimilate it. (Keep in mind I am not Lithuanian, nor do I have what I assume to be all the facts, I'm curious about why it would be diminished that's all)
 
Why would Lithuanian be an endangered language? I don't know nearly as much about the subject as you so I'm curious
Its current number of speakers is drastically reduced due to centuries of attempted assimilation so if we find them in charge then I am curious about the future of the language, from my point of view would it not be larger if there wasn't a constant effort to assimilate it. (Keep in mind I am not Lithuanian, nor do I have what I assume to be all the facts, I'm curious about why it would be diminished that's all)
I guess what Augenis had in mind was that if Lithuania and Russia had formed a common state in which Lithuanians did not dominate over Russians, then the gross numerical superiority of the Russians would have made Russian the common language of the state at some point. Just like what had happened centuries earlier to the city-states / principalities with their Varangian elites who assimiliated into the Slavic tribes who outnumbered them, thereby creating "Russia" in the first place.
 
I guess what Augenis had in mind was that if Lithuania and Russia had formed a common state in which Lithuanians did not dominate over Russians, then the gross numerical superiority of the Russians would have made Russian the common language of the state at some point. Just like what had happened centuries earlier to the city-states / principalities with their Varangian elites who assimiliated into the Slavic tribes who outnumbered them, thereby creating "Russia" in the first place.

Ah OK that makes sense I was looking at it from a modern day Ireland perspective where the dominant political class spoke English and made it so that you couldn't progress socially without learning English, ergo Irish slowly fizzled out into a severely endangered language
 
Dang it.

Russia can not be lost! Not yet! The Roman Catholic control must be destroyed in all the land!
Or, you know, that could happen without the Russians? I mean, really, all you need is one egomaniacal ruler deciding that they don't like the Catholic Church having any authority in their lands and breaking the treaty.
 
Chapter 26: No Country for Old Russians (and a 1575 map)
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Part 26: No Country For Old Russians (1574-1575)

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Famously dubbed as the "Russian Death March", the retreat from Sychyovka to Tver took 15 days, most of it through heavy hail, blizzards and followed by a lack of basic needs and food, and resulted in a near annihilation of the defeated Russians, as well as the death of their leader and exalted figure, Ivan Kratkov. Despite his best efforts, he did not witness the birth of a united and free Russian state, but even though Sychyovka has been lost and the Opolcheniye have been almost eradicated, the revolutionaries still had some hope. Boris of Vyazma led the remaining soldiers into Tver on the beginning of February, and began preparing for a final stand. Here and now.

If Tver is lost, then Russia will be lost as well.

The Lithuanians, meanwhile, spent the winter preparing for an invasion. The weather was too harsh and cold for any offensive maneuvers - which was the reason why Radvila's armies did not pursue the fleeing Russian forces. There was some actions in other "fronts" during that time, though - additional reserves were sent from Lithuania Propria in February, which captured Novgorod in March. The Russian defenders attempted to burn the center of the city during the assault, but their plans failed. The leader of the Lithuanian troops, Jonas Chomičius, ordered for the 500 most rebellious captives to be executed in the city square. But besides that, the war was static. And as the bitter cold of the winter came to a close and spring began to bloom, it was about to heat back to full capacity...

The very first thing that the survivors of the winter of 1574 witnessed was a familiar sight - famine. Much like in the Polish Succession War a century earlier, the attrition warfare, constant raids and grain seizing amounted to the masses of the Russian heartland not having enough grain or a good enough harvest to survive - and began dying in droves. Even during the winter, there were reports of hunger from the most war torn region, Smolensk, but now it began to spread to Novgorod, Tver and Vladimir. And in this climate and situation, the Lithuanian Army of Kęstutis Radvila suddenly left their camp and began advancing towards Tver. Under the command of Boris of Vyazma, the city had been preparing for an assault ever since the return of their army, but food reserves were already running low. The defenders were demoralized, many of them already wished to go home. Many others were diseased or struck by hunger. And the civilians still remembered the wrath that Mykolas Glinskis served the city during the Tverian-Lithuanian War, and had reason to be afraid that history will repeat itself.

On June of 1574, the Lithuanians descended on Tver once more...

Despite the preparations, the city had little actual defensive fortifications. Valdislavas I ordered the Tver Kremlin to be demolished and replaced with a monument to commemorate the Lithuanian conquest of the city - a monument that was taken down by the Russian rebellion in it's first stages. Kęstutis Radvila stationed his army in the south, behind the Volga, and began bombarding the city with cannons. In response, the Tverians burned all the bridges leading across the river. This proved to be somewhat effective, as the artillery barrage proved to only be moderately successful at subduing the fortified Russians, and, running low on ammunition for the cannons, the Lithuanians retreated, instead moving around the Volga and connected with the reserves that captured Novgorod in July.

This was the beginning of the last major offensive in the entire war. In late July, the Lithuanians reached Tver a second time, which this time did not have the protection of the Volga River. After a siege of 19 days and an assault against the weakened defenders, the city, the heart of the Russian lands, capitulated. Over 11 000 inhabitants from the town and the surrounding countryside fled to the east. Lithuanian troops captured Vladimir, Nizhny Novgorod, Rostov, Yaroslavl and finally Ryazan in the coming months, with the last one surrendering in January of 1575 - all major population centers in the Russian lands were now held by the Lithuanians. Resistance against their rule persisted, though, as many of the most dedicated rebels moved to the countryside and to the forests to work underground. Quite a few years passed before the rule of Queen Sofija under all of her lands could be finalized.

Many Russians fled to the east, to the steppes, fearing both Lithuanian wrath and the famines and poverty that struck their homeland. Boris of Vyazma himself managed to save a small portion of what use to be the mighty army of the rebellion and followed this "exodus". Life was not easy in the steppe. Many of the Russians were captured by the Tatar raiders still dwelling there and sold to slavery, quite a few turned to the roaming Cossack hosts, but many others settled down, usually along the Volga, where defending against Tatar raids was easier, forming tiny specks of the Russian nation far from their homeland.

Never to return. Not in a "dying" way, though...

And with that, the Great Russian Rebellion was defeated and crushed, Lithuania could relax and look back at this crisis of the 16th century. A lot was lost - it's position in foreign affairs was weakened, the armies of Visegrad ripped away a piece of it's heartland, same with the Ottoman Empire, and in exchange it secured an almost depopulated region with sentiment definitely not in favor of the Queen. The world had changed in those years, too. There was a lot to catch up on.

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Provinces.png

The world in 1575 (full size here)
Slate grey territory represents minor states: in Germany, Ireland, Yucatan, Central and West Africa, SE Asia and Manchu.
Light grey represents uninhabited or sparsely inhabited lands and territory with no defined "states", i.e. tribal or pre-agricultural.
 
Augenis, can you go back, and have the Russians win the war, and beat the hell out of the Lithuanians? The Kingdom must destroyed the Concordate of Brest, and the Church of Rome.
 
Augenis, can you go back, and have the Russians win the war, and beat the hell out of the Lithuanians? The Kingdom must destroyed the Concordate of Brest, and the Church of Rome.
You're asking a Lithuanian to write a timeline where Russians beat up Lithuanians, mmkay.
 
Only to become a nation! No reason why Russia and Lithuania can be pals afterward.
Considering that in this scenario, Lithuania and Russia would be primary rivals for domination over Eastern Europe and would each have wide territorial claims over each other (Russia would want to take the rest of Ruthenia to "free all Slavs", Lithuania would wish to reunite it's former territory and empire), I seriously doubt that.
 
Considering that in this scenario, Lithuania and Russia would be primary rivals for domination over Eastern Europe and would each have wide territorial claims over each other (Russia would want to take the rest of Ruthenia to "free all Slavs", Lithuania would wish to reunite it's former territory and empire), I seriously doubt that.

Hmm....

Crap.
 
Yeah, after Sychyovka, there was no hope for a Russian return.
Holding the East might turn out to be what will keep Lithuania from becoming a greatly successful modern nation state. Lots of agricultural lands kept in feudal servitude, an army focussed on controlling one´s own population and repelling nomadic invaders, all that preventing a focus on mercantilist pre-proto-industrialisation policies, on pampering the rising capitalist class, on maritime hegemony and profitable colonies...
 
As someone who loves linguistics I hope Lithuanian sticks around, as one of the oldest continually existing languages we'd lose a part of history
 
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