The Shrew-Wife of Spain

Isabel Farnese - love her or hate her - is primarily remembered for plunging Spain into wars in order to get her sons crowns to wear - i.e. Tuscany, Parma, Naples... - and for dominating her weak-willed husband.

But Isabel was not the primary choice for future queen of Spain - in fact, the princesse d'Ursins brought her to Spain against the orders from Versailles.

Clearly her domineering attitude was inherent (her mother was also considered haughty and proud), as well as aquired (with every year that went past with no male heir for the house of Farnese I imagine she would've been brought up aware of her own status/importance). My question is if she married another husband - two primary candidates were Francesco III d'Este and the prince of Piedmont - would she still have been as power-thirsty as she was, or was that simply amplified by being mistress of Spain?
 
Isabel Farnese - love her or hate her - is primarily remembered for plunging Spain into wars in order to get her sons crowns to wear - i.e. Tuscany, Parma, Naples... - and for dominating her weak-willed husband.

But Isabel was not the primary choice for future queen of Spain - in fact, the princesse d'Ursins brought her to Spain against the orders from Versailles.

Clearly her domineering attitude was inherent (her mother was also considered haughty and proud), as well as aquired (with every year that went past with no male heir for the house of Farnese I imagine she would've been brought up aware of her own status/importance). My question is if she married another husband - two primary candidates were Francesco III d'Este and the prince of Piedmont - would she still have been as power-thirsty as she was, or was that simply amplified by being mistress of Spain?
She is also the most senior Lancastrian Heiress at that time, she can also be married to a King of Britain.
 
She is also the most senior Lancastrian Heiress at that time, she can also be married to a King of Britain.

I think if she had been married to James III she might've helped get him back on the English throne. As well as providing the Stuarts with an Italian genealogy that could leave them as kings of parts of Italy.

For instance, Isabel's heiress of Parma, but also of Tuscany - due to her descent from Margherita de Medici. Then, she marries a guy who's half d'Este so if failure to secure England takes place, she could urge him to take Parma and Tuscany, and marry a grandson to Maria Beatrice d'Este in order to get Modena-Reggio too.
 
I think if she had been married to James III she might've helped get him back on the English throne. As well as providing the Stuarts with an Italian genealogy that could leave them as kings of parts of Italy.

For instance, Isabel's heiress of Parma, but also of Tuscany - due to her descent from Margherita de Medici. Then, she marries a guy who's half d'Este so if failure to secure England takes place, she could urge him to take Parma and Tuscany, and marry a grandson to Maria Beatrice d'Este in order to get Modena-Reggio too.

Yeah I gotta second that. Isabella Farnese, whatever your thoughts on here are, would be the BEST person to have on the Jacobite side. Really she would no doubt end up as a Margaret of Anjou figure, leading the Jacobite movement in place of James III. With her backing them, and a powerbase in Parma and Tuscany, the Jacobite's would have a pretty good chance at succeeding.
 
So instead of being la termaganta in Madrid, she'd be the she-wolf in London?

Were she to become Jacobite queen, and the 1715 uprising is successful, once she's in London it's a different kettle of fish. She might be regarded more as Isabelle de Valois - the savior of the country [from bad dull Germans] - was originally, than Marguerite. The question would be though, is how much say might James III allow her in politics?
 
The genealogical heirs of King-Cardinal Henrique of Portugal in 1580 were neither the Spanish Habsburgs (3d in line) nor the Braganças (2nd in line) but the Farnese children of the late Duchess of Parma.

Isabel is thus the genealogical best representative of the House of Avis and a marriage of her with King João V would strengthen the legitimacy of the House of Bragança. Not politically, just for us genealogical fetishists. :)
 
The genealogical heirs of King-Cardinal Henrique of Portugal in 1580 were neither the Spanish Habsburgs (3d in line) nor the Braganças (2nd in line) but the Farnese children of the late Duchess of Parma.

Isabel is thus the genealogical best representative of the House of Avis and a marriage of her with King João V would strengthen the legitimacy of the House of Bragança. Not politically, just for us genealogical fetishists. :)

I knew about the Farnese having a senior claim to the Braganças and the Hapsburgs, but I didn't know about them being the senior heirs of the Lancaster claim.

As to her as queen of Portugal - that might be interesting. Given her overweening ambition and her genealogical claims - Parma, Tuscany - Portugal (who would have the money to finance it in the 18th century) could end up as a third player (alongside Austria and France-Spain) in Italy.
 
She's only the senior Lancastrian heiress if you disconsider the Beauforts - who were legitimized and only subsequently barred from the throne.
 
She's only the senior Lancastrian heiress if you disconsider the Beauforts - who were legitimized and only subsequently barred from the throne.
But if she is married to the Jacobites she makes the Jacobite lineage the senior descendants of John of Gaunt.
 
If Farnese marries Jamie the Rover (James III), that means the princesse des Ursins needs to find another wife for Philip V, and in that power vacuum she is de facto queen of Spain in anycase. I wonder who she might pick instead? Or would Versailles be deciding on a new queen rather? AFAIK their nose was put out of joint by Farnese being chosen in the first place.
 
If Farnese marries Jamie the Rover (James III), that means the princesse des Ursins needs to find another wife for Philip V, and in that power vacuum she is de facto queen of Spain in anycase. I wonder who she might pick instead? Or would Versailles be deciding on a new queen rather? AFAIK their nose was put out of joint by Farnese being chosen in the first place.

An interesting idea would be to have the Princess over the Water, Louis Maria Teresa, survive and be married to King Philip. After all she did rank as the daughter and sister of a King, so theoretically she would be eligible, and she wouldn't bring any foreign entanglements. Though I bet it would damage relations with Britain and Portugal.
 
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An interesting idea would be to have the Princess over the Water, Louis Maria Teresa, survive and be married to King Philip. After all she did rank as the daughter and sister of a King, so theoretically she would be eligible, and she wouldn't bring any foreign entanglements. Though I bet it would damage relations with Britain and Portugal.

It would - perhaps - Portugal recognized Anne and her Hannoverian successors no problem, they were never associated (from what I'm aware) with any Jacobite rebellions etc. Although, the Jacobites as much as they might be fixated on James II's heirs, might view a half-Spanish heir, born off an English princess who's never set foot in the country very very differently. Protestant burnings of Smithfield, Bloody Mary, Spanish ultracatholicism and all that.
 
It would - perhaps - Portugal recognized Anne and her Hannoverian successors no problem, they were never associated (from what I'm aware) with any Jacobite rebellions etc. Although, the Jacobites as much as they might be fixated on James II's heirs, might view a half-Spanish heir, born off an English princess who's never set foot in the country very very differently. Protestant burnings of Smithfield, Bloody Mary, Spanish ultracatholicism and all that.

Well Louisa would only be the heir until James "III" has a kid, then she drops down to second in line. But a combination of Louisa to Philip and James to Isabella would be incredibly interesting, as it would give the Jacobites a base in Italy and a supporter in Spain.
 
Sorry for my reviving an old(er) thread, but I recently read that Maria Magdalena of Austria was offered by the HRE both before and after Felipe V married Luisa Maria of Savoy. Louis XIV turned it down the first time because 'she wasn't his grandson's preference' (the official answer given). But I can't help wondering, would he have considered Maria Magdalena as a more prestigious queen for Spain et al than La Farnese?
 
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