The Shrapnel shell that saved an empire

Syphon

On the 19th January 1871 the Battle of Buzenval was in full swing.
Prussian Crown Prince Frederick's army was able to force Trochu's salient back into Paris.

As the French army withdrew back into Paris one French artillery piece in a last defiant gesture fired one last shrapnel shell at the German headquarters.
It was a direct hit and the Crown Prince was seriously wounded with shrapnel damaging Frederick's chest and throat.

The damage to the Crown Prince would last the rest of his life.
It had two major casualties, The Crown Princes voice and a small malignant tumor.

An act of chance has saved the Prussian (soon to be German) crown prince from an early death.

So what effect does this act of chance have on Germany, Europe and the world.

Lets discuss.
 

Elfwine

eliphas8 said:
Frederick III lives longer as German Emperor.
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Well, what does the shrapnel shell have to do with it? He doesn't get hit?

Fritz was fifty-seven when he died OTL, although the Hohenzollerns seem long lived, that's within the range that something might creep up even if this tumor is dealt with.
 

Fiver

Elfwine said:
So wait, what happens here that didn't OTL, exactly?
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Crown Prince Friedrich is hit in the throat by shrapnel. Part of his larnyx is removed, including the tumor which killed him in OTL. Friedrich is left without a voice, or at least a heavily damaged one, so rather than dying of cancer in 1888, he lives as long as his oldest son (dying in 1914) or perhaps his father (dying in 1922).

I can see three direct results. Peace terms for France will be harsher. The Great War will probably be delayed and might be averted. With their now shared physical disabilities, Friedrich and his heir Wilhelm may reconcile.
 

Syphon

Fiver said:
Crown Prince Friedrich is hit in the throat by shrapnel. Part of his larnyx is removed, including the tumor which killed him in OTL. Friedrich is left without a voice, or at least a heavily damaged one, so rather than dying of cancer in 1888, he lives as long as his oldest son (dying in 1914) or perhaps his father (dying in 1922).

I can see three direct results. Peace terms for France will be harsher. The Great War will probably be delayed and might be averted. With their now shared physical disabilities, Friedrich and his heir Wilhelm may reconcile.
Click to expand...

I might steal some of these ideas Fiver.

But remember the Frederick was a liberal reformer so expect the German empire to have something akin to a constitutional monarchy.
This was one of his wishes.

You might also see a very different German military, Tirpitz won't have such a will ear and Great Britain might not be part of the Entente if a Pro-British German emperor remains on the throne until the mid second decade of the 20th century.
 

Syphon

I've been revisting this idea and was wondering if anybody else had any idea of what FW living lets say 30 years longer would have.
 

katchen

Banned
Harsher peace terms. Hmmm. What was Freidrich's stance on colonies? Would Friedrich have insisted on Alsace Lorraine AND Indochina? Or Alsace Lorraine AND Algeria/West Africa? Could Friedrich have overruled Bismarck's reluctance when it came to colonies?
 

Westphalian

katchen said:
Harsher peace terms. Hmmm. What was Freidrich's stance on colonies? Would Friedrich have insisted on Alsace Lorraine AND Indochina? Or Alsace Lorraine AND Algeria/West Africa? Could Friedrich have overruled Bismarck's reluctance when it came to colonies?
Click to expand...

Certainly not. In OTL he was Crown Prince and successful field commander and had near to zero influence on actual policymaking. In this TL he is severly wounded, unable to speak and still only Crown Prince. So his influence will be even less.

BTW, I am not convinced how much of a liberal reformer he actually would have been. Yes, he sought the company of liberal politicians when he was Crown Prince, but remember that once even Wilhelm I. had been seen as the great liberal hope.
The only thing you can be relatively sure of is his Anglophilia, this is certain. But the same time, think about natural rivalries: The conservative Junker often still disliked Russia because of the rivalry as grain producers, while the liberal merchants, traders and colonialists in Germany often saw Britain as the biggest rival.
So a strong Anglophilia might actually result in Emperor Friedrich III trying to reduce the Anglo-German rivalry by lessening German naval and overseas engagement and strengthnening the agricultural aspects of the economy. He had a well-developed traditionialist streak in him, especally when it came to the glory of the Hohenzollern family.
 

abc123

Banned
But if he can't speak, will Frederick stay Crown prince? After all, the Emperor should be able to speak...

So, that could mean his abdication in favour of his son...
 

Westphalian

abc123 said:
But if he can't speak, will Frederick stay Crown prince? After all, the Emperor should be able to speak...
Click to expand...

That was Friedrichs opinion in OTL, thus he refused surgery that would have cost him his voice but could have saved his live,

abc123 said:
So, that could mean his abdication in favour of his son...
Click to expand...

I am rather sure that according to the Hohenzollern house law a Crown Prince cannot resign. But the head of the house (King/Emperor Wilhelm I.) can change the law, and the changes becomes valid once all princes of age consent. If Friedrich asks to be excluded from succession, they will probably agree. OTOH, Prince Wilhelm is only 12 years old at the moment and it would be very strange were King Wilhelm I. to die in the following five years and Friedrich become regent anyway.
 

Syphon

abc123 said:
But if he can't speak, will Frederick stay Crown prince? After all, the Emperor should be able to speak...

So, that could mean his abdication in favour of his son...
Click to expand...

But here it is slightly different it wasn't surgery that caused the loss of his voice but instead an injury caused on the field of battle.

As a war wound the Junkers would probably consider it as a badge of honour and as a sign of the sacrifices the Crown Prince was willing to take for the Reich.

Being a war injury puts a slightly different slant on the situation.

As such the loss of his voice would probably be more acceptable.
 

Flubber

Banned
Syphon said:
But remember the Frederick was a liberal reformer...
Click to expand...


No, he wasn't.

Let me recommend Muller's Our Fritz: Emperor Frederick III and the Political Culture of Imperial Germany for a far more accurate portrait of the man.

From the Oxford Journals review: "... the first comprehensive life of Frederick III ever written, reconstructs how the hugely popular persona of “Our Fritz” was created and used for various political purposes before and after the emperor’s tragic death. Sandwiched between the reign of his ninety-year-old father and the calamitous rule of his own son, the future emperor William II, Frederick III served as a canvas onto which different political forces projected their hopes and fears for Germany’s future. The book moves beyond the myth that Frederick’s humane liberalism would have built a lasting Anglo-German partnership, perhaps even preventing World War I, and beyond the castigations and exaggerations of parties with a different agenda."

As usual, the truth of the matter is far more nuanced than the popular conception chooses to admit.
 

Dathi THorfinnsson

Search for Friedrich cancer
You get several relevant hits (as well as a bunch that arent)

Der gute kaiser fritz
Wilhelm i assassinated 1878
The empire of Friedrich iii
etc.
 
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