The Ships that Never Sailed

[Emperor Constantine]

Surprised no one's said this one yet: George III/Lady Sarah Lennox.

In 1759, when he was Prince of Wales, George III was deeply infatuated with Lady Sarah Lennox and wanted to marry her. Ultimately his mother and Lord Bute talked him out of it, though he continued to flirt with the idea up till his wedding with Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz. So lets say he tells his advisors to F*ck off and marries her. That gives the British Royal House some actual English blood (royal blood, as Sarah was a descendant of Charles II and Louise de Kérouaille) and direct connections to the Whig grandees. This could mean that, once the Whigs implode as the 1760s continue, some of the grandees could join the new Tory party under the King. Haven't given it more thought but it would be interesting to do.

 

[The_Most_Happy]

Surprised no one's said this one yet: George III/Lady Sarah Lennox.

In 1759, when he was Prince of Wales, George III was deeply infatuated with Lady Sarah Lennox and wanted to marry her. Ultimately his mother and Lord Bute talked him out of it, though he continued to flirt with the idea up till his wedding with Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz. So lets say he tells his advisors to F*ck off and marries her. That gives the British Royal House some actual English blood (royal blood, as Sarah was a descendant of Charles II and Louise de Kérouaille) and direct connections to the Whig grandees. This could mean that, once the Whigs implode as the 1760s continue, some of the grandees could join the new Tory party under the King. Haven't given it more thought but it would be interesting to do.

That would be a very interesting timeline... hmmmm... maybe once I finish up with Charlotte and Co.

 

[WillVictoria]

Surprised no one's said this one yet: George III/Lady Sarah Lennox.

In 1759, when he was Prince of Wales, George III was deeply infatuated with Lady Sarah Lennox and wanted to marry her. Ultimately his mother and Lord Bute talked him out of it, though he continued to flirt with the idea up till his wedding with Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz. So lets say he tells his advisors to F*ck off and marries her. That gives the British Royal House some actual English blood (royal blood, as Sarah was a descendant of Charles II and Louise de Kérouaille) and direct connections to the Whig grandees. This could mean that, once the Whigs implode as the 1760s continue, some of the grandees could join the new Tory party under the King. Haven't given it more thought but it would be interesting to do.

The only issue I could see is would the various German houses in Europe be willing to marry the children of Sarah, particularly with their obsessions with pure royal blood

 

[FalconHonour]

That would be a very interesting timeline... hmmmm... maybe once I finish up with Charlotte and Co.

I'd read that!

 

[The_Most_Happy]

The only issue I could see is would the various German houses in Europe be willing to marry the children of Sarah, particularly with their obsessions with pure royal blood

Maybe the English royal house would just say 'screw it' and fully pollute themselves and their royal blood by marrying into English and Scottish nobility *only* a la Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn; become "pure English" and all that. Although, Sarah was technically descended from Charles II, just from the wrong side of the blanket, so maybe the royals of Europe would be willing to overlook it.

 

[isabella]

The only issue I could see is would the various German houses in Europe be willing to marry the children of Sarah, particularly with their obsessions with pure royal blood

Maybe the English royal house would just say 'screw it' and fully pollute themselves and their royal blood by marrying into English and Scottish nobility *only* a la Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn; become "pure English" and all that. Although, Sarah was technically descended from Charles II, just from the wrong side of the blanket, so maybe the royals of Europe would be willing to overlook it.

Pretty unlikely who many German (and not) houses would have trouble in marrying with Sarah’s children who are fully Royal princes and princesses of England. Mary and Anne of York in the end were both married well (and they were only nieces of the King and their mother of a lower rank than Sarah) and only the most snob prospective mothers-in-law and grooms looked down on them (aka Hanoverians who truly in the end do not married better than the refuted York girl).

 

[Emperor Constantine]

The only issue I could see is would the various German houses in Europe be willing to marry the children of Sarah, particularly with their obsessions with pure royal blood

Mary II and Queen Anne had a commoner mother (of a much lower rank than Sarah was) and neither had any issue getting a royal husband. Hell Mary was considered for Dauphine of France before Charles II put a veto on it, so there shouldn't be an issue. The real question would be Hanover itself. English common law had no such thing as morganatic marriage, but the German states excluded the children of unequal marriages. So the question becomes whether or not George III's sons be able to inherit Hanover.

Maybe the English royal house would just say 'screw it' and fully pollute themselves and their royal blood by marrying into English and Scottish nobility *only* a la Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn; become "pure English" and all that. Although, Sarah was technically descended from Charles II, just from the wrong side of the blanket, so maybe the royals of Europe would be willing to overlook it.

Doubt it. A one off love match is possible, but a set policy of marrying the nobility is entirely different.

 

[Kerney]

A couple not mentioned--

Varina Anne Davis, daughter of Jefferson Davis, and Alfred Wilkinson, New York Attorney and grandson of abolitionists. It was announced, but delayed by the death of the bride's father, the burning of the grooms house, and outcry from Southerners burdened the relationship. Her mother then turned against it. I always felt sorry for her.

Æthelflæd, otl Lady of the Mercians, daughter of Alfred the Great, and Eohric Guthrumson (?) otl King of East Anglia. I picture it taking place in the mid to late 880s after the bride's father is long dead and the bride has been fostered by Danes since age seven or so.

 

[isabella]

Pretty unlikely who many German (and not) houses would have trouble in marrying with Sarah’s children who are fully Royal princes and princesses of England. Mary and Anne of York in the end were both married well (and they were only nieces of the King and their mother of a lower rank than Sarah) and only the most snob prospective mothers-in-law and grooms looked down on them (aka Hanoverians who truly in the end do not married better than the refuted York girl).

Well Hannover is not a big trouble: George III loved Hannover? Was indifferent to it? Hated Hannover? The problem is who his younger brothers who married both married commoners (of lower rank than Sarah) so we have two solution
a) George III was able to get the Imperial diet to convalidate his wedding to Sarah recognizing the right to inherit Hannover to their children
b) his next brother Edward, Duke of York and Albany survive and marry a Hochadel wife inheriting Hannover after George III’s death

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Jakub Sobieski and Maria Antonia Habsburg If HRE Leopold is more grateful after Battle of Vienna.

Casimir III of Poland and Margaret of Luxembourg (if she lived a bit longer).

Frederick the Iron, Elector of Brandenburg, and Hedwig Jagiellon ( they would marry if her father Władysław II Jagiełło had no sons).

 

[isabella]

Jakub Sobieski and Maria Antonia Habsburg If HRE Leopold is more grateful after Battle of Vienna.

Casimir III of Poland and Margaret of Luxembourg (if she lived a bit longer).

Frederick the Iron, Elector of Brandenburg, and Hedwig Jagiellon ( they would marry if her father Władysław II Jagiełło had no sons).

I think who the main reason for which Sobieski was not taken in consideration for Antonia is her status as heiress of Spain. If her brother Ferdinand Wendell had survived a Polish match for her would be pretty plausible considering how many Habsburg women had married in Poland

 

[Jan Olbracht]

I think who the main reason for which Sobieski was not taken in consideration for Antonia is her status as heiress of Spain. If her brother Ferdinand Wendell had survived a Polish match for her would be pretty plausible considering how many Habsburg women had married in Poland

Possibly. Poland had 8 Habsburg queens (more than any other country) and even Michał Wiśniowiecki get Habsburg wife.

 

[isabella]

Possibly. Poland had 8 Habsburg queens (more than any other country) and even Michał Wiśniowiecki get Habsburg wife.

See my points? Let Ferdinand survive and Maria Antonia will be married in Poland (and would be good for her as almpost any match would be better than her OTL one)

 

[Jan Olbracht]

See my points? Let Ferdinand survive and Maria Antonia will be married in Poland (and would be good for her as almpost any match would be better than her OTL one)

And they would be given duchy in Silesia (Opole-Racibórz likely). Jakub's father would thus not waste time in Moldavia fruitlessly trying to conquer it to make it Jakub's duchy.

 

[isabella]

And they would be given duchy in Silesia (Opole-Racibórz likely). Jakub's father would thus not waste time in Moldavia fruitlessly trying to conquer it to make it Jakub's duchy.

Duchy in Silesia is guaranteed as Maria Antonia will sign a renunciation to the Spanish inheritance (needed for making Ferdinand the only possible heir of Spain together with a declaration who put Ferdinand behind his half-brothers in the Austrian line of succession).

 

[The_Most_Happy]

Well Hannover is not a big trouble: George III loved Hannover? Was indifferent to it? Hated Hannover? The problem is who his younger brothers who married both married commoners (of lower rank than Sarah) so we have two solution
a) George III was able to get the Imperial diet to convalidate his wedding to Sarah recognizing the right to inherit Hannover to their children
b) his next brother Edward, Duke of York and Albany survive and marry a Hochadel wife inheriting Hannover after George III’s death

Not sure off the top of my head of his exact feelings towards Hanover, but if I remember correctly, he was more ambivalent than anything. He was *definitely* more British than his predecessors - he spoke English fluently, lived there a majority if not all of the time, etc. So, in theory, I think if he couldn't get the diet to recognize his marriage to Sarah, he wouldn't be devastated at the loss of Hanover to brother Edward and 'proper' wife. However, it is intriguing to wonder what would happen to Hanover as the years went on, since the only reason no one had curb-stomped it into submission was it belonged to the powerful King of Great Britain and Ireland, etc. Without that protection, I feel like the Prussians / Austrians / somebody would come knocking very quickly, and George III or whoever is on the throne might not be too inclined to help out. If it's George IV, his son with Sarah, he might just let the whole little electorate burn for not recognizing his dear Mummy.

And yeah, I'm totally gonna write this TL.

 

[Rattigan]

Don't know if it's been mentioned on this thread before now but Ivan the Terrible offered himself as a husband to Elizabeth I, which would have been quite something...

 

[isabella]

Not sure off the top of my head of his exact feelings towards Hanover, but if I remember correctly, he was more ambivalent than anything. He was *definitely* more British than his predecessors - he spoke English fluently, lived there a majority if not all of the time, etc. So, in theory, I think if he couldn't get the diet to recognize his marriage to Sarah, he wouldn't be devastated at the loss of Hanover to brother Edward and 'proper' wife. However, it is intriguing to wonder what would happen to Hanover as the years went on, since the only reason no one had curb-stomped it into submission was it belonged to the powerful King of Great Britain and Ireland, etc. Without that protection, I feel like the Prussians / Austrians / somebody would come knocking very quickly, and George III or whoever is on the throne might not be too inclined to help out. If it's George IV, his son with Sarah, he might just let the whole little electorate burn for not recognizing his dear Mummy.

And yeah, I'm totally gonna write this TL.

Great. Remember only who Hannover will stay united to Great Britain at least until George III’s death and if lost after that would be the kingdom of the uncle/cousin of the King of Great Britain.
Plus if George IV would be unable to inheriting the electorate would not be fault of the electorate itself but of the Imperial diet who made that impossible...

 

[The_Most_Happy]

Great. Remember only who Hannover will stay united to Great Britain at least until George III’s death and if lost after that would be the kingdom of the uncle/cousin of the King of Great Britain.
Plus if George IV would be unable to inheriting the electorate would not be fault of the electorate itself but of the Imperial diet who made that impossible...

Yeah, but people are by and large not very logical when it comes to emotional situations. If George IV's uncle and his 'properly royal' wife and their 'properly royal' children had been rubbing it in his face for years and then inherited the electorate that should have been his... he might not be able to get revenge on the Imperial Diet, but he might be able to sit safe in his much better, stronger, more powerful kingdom and not lift a finger for that electorate and those relatives. Plus, considering the madness of George III, George IV (like his OTL counterpart) will have a good chunk of time as Prince Regent, during which he might win himself major British popularity points by more or less ignoring Hanover. Might not even be a Hanover for Edward & Co. to inherit when it comes down to it

 

[isabella]

Yeah, but people are by and large not very logical when it comes to emotional situations. If George IV's uncle and his 'properly royal' wife and their 'properly royal' children had been rubbing it in his face for years and then inherited the electorate that should have been his... he might not be able to get revenge on the Imperial Diet, but he might be able to sit safe in his much better, stronger, more powerful kingdom and not lift a finger for that electorate and those relatives. Plus, considering the madness of George III, George IV (like his OTL counterpart) will have a good chunk of time as Prince Regent, during which he might win himself major British popularity points by more or less ignoring Hanover. Might not even be a Hanover for Edward & Co. to inherit when it comes down to it

For what reason Edward and family would have anything to say to George, who would still inheriting the biggest and most important part of the family lands?
George’s father had made a choice in marrying who prevented his son from inheriting Hannover but Sarah was still crowned Queen of England while the Hochadel wife of Edward would still be inferior in rank to Sarah and Edward’s children still lower than George’s in rank... Think to George III and Edward’s relationship like that of Edward VII and Alfred, Duke of Edinburgh and of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.
Or the one between Queen Victoria and her uncle/cousin of Hannover. Alexandra of Denmark and Maria of Russia had a bad relationship as the latter wanted precedence over the first but without success...
If someone would have resentment/complex of inferiority that would be the new rulers of Hannover (who remained subject of George IV) not the new King of England