The Sforza Empress

The one that can marry Friedrich is Anne d'Albret and Germaine.

Isn't that what I said? I wasn't thinking Anne de Foix-Candale. She gets to marry her desired betrothal, the Comte de Longueville.

What about a english match for Friedrich? Mary Tudor?

Would the English agree to it? If Friedrich doesn't inherit Burgundy (as Charles seems likely to, wouldn't Karl be a better match, save Fritz for a Polish/Hungarian/German princess)?
 
Friedrich, Holy Roman Emperor b 1495 m Anne of Hungary and Bohemia b 1503

Charles I of Spain b 1500 m Isabella of Portugal b 1503

Ferdinand of Austria b 1503 m ???
 
I was also thinking of that. Fritz marries Mary, Karl gets Claude de Valois (if he's only gonna be duke of Burgundy why not) and Fernando to Isabel of Portugal (and gets Castile/Aragon)

I'm not sure about Karl getting Claude. Louis XII might be uncomfortable with the idea of such a match even if he doesn't have a son. My ideal scenario would be one where Katherine of England (Elizabeth of York's youngest daughter) survives. Mary marries Miguel de Paz or Juan III of Spain, Katherine marries Karl V, and Isabel winds up as either queen of England (to Henry VIII or a son of Prince Arthur) or a French prince (I saw a TL once where her sister, the OTL duchess of Savoy ended up as wife to François I because Claude died giving birth to one of her earlier kids. Isabel could be swung as a wife for François I if Claude dies on schedule (1524), since Isabel only married in 1525/26. Portugal wasn't yet a Spanish province.

Would Charles not be the king of Spain even with Friedrich around?

This is assuming a sort of OTL birthdates/places for all of them (if Karl's born in Ghent he's definitely going to be less popular with his Spanish grandpa than a brother born in Spain (on grandpa's birthday) with the same name as grandpa)
 
Well Charles were born in Ghent and he still got spain ahead of his brother, the darling of Ferdinand the catholic. Why would this be reversed in this TL?
 
Well Charles were born in Ghent and he still got spain ahead of his brother, the darling of Ferdinand the catholic. Why would this be reversed in this TL?

Only through the fact that Max outlived Fernando. Ferdinand was raised in Spain, grew up in Spain, and Fernando intended to have his namesake grandson succeed him. The first thing that Karl did on inheriting Spain was to send his brother away to Burgundy/Austria. If Max were to die first then it's likely that such a thing would happen. The cortes would say that they don't want the emperor to rule them.
 
Hmmm that could work. If Ferdinand the catholic arranges to have Ferdinand jr wed Isabella of Portugal and lives longer, perhaps until 1522 or something?
 
If Maximilian had a second son he will be the husband to be of Anne of Hungary and Bohemia and his father's heir in Austria and as Holy Roman Emperor (Max will likely have him elected as King of Romans and married to Anne while he was still alive).
Karl or better Carlos I of Castile and Aragon will likely marry directly his cousin Isabel of Portugal in a double wedding with his elder sister Eleanor and John of Portugal while for Ferdinand, named governor of Burgundy, a surviving Katherine Tudor would be the ideal (or Claude of Brittany or a princess of Lorraine). If Maximilian had a daughter by Bianca she would be Henry VII's first choice as daughter-in-law after the death of Isabella of Castile and being of an adequate age would likely be married to Henry before his father's death.

If Fernando of Castile instead is able to install his favorite grandson as heir well Fernando will marry Isabel of Portugal (still in the double wedding with Joao and Leonor) and Karl, Duke of Burgundy will marry either Mary or Katherine Tudor
 
Hmmm that could work. If Ferdinand the catholic arranges to have Ferdinand jr wed Isabella of Portugal and lives longer, perhaps until 1522 or something?

Thing is, Fernando doesn't have to live longer than OTL, Max can also die sooner. He was rather sickish in the 1510s IIRC, they offered a Jagiellon princess for him as a third wife after Bianca died (I think it was Sigmund the Old's youngest sister) but he refused citing health reasons.

If Maximilian had a second son he will be the husband to be of Anne of Hungary and Bohemia and his father's heir in Austria and as Holy Roman Emperor (Max will likely have him elected as King of Romans and married to Anne while he was still alive).
Karl or better Carlos I of Castile and Aragon will likely marry directly his cousin Isabel of Portugal in a double wedding with his elder sister Eleanor and John of Portugal while for Ferdinand, named governor of Burgundy, a surviving Katherine Tudor would be the ideal (or Claude of Brittany or a princess of Lorraine). If Maximilian had a daughter by Bianca she would be Henry VII's first choice as daughter-in-law after the death of Isabella of Castile and being of an adequate age would likely be married to Henry before his father's death.

If Fernando of Castile instead is able to install his favorite grandson as heir well Fernando will marry Isabel of Portugal (still in the double wedding with Joao and Leonor) and Karl, Duke of Burgundy will marry either Mary or Katherine Tudor

Makes sense. I still like my idea of Mary or Katherine Tudor for Karl V and either Joao III of Portugal, or a surviving Miguel de la Paz or Juan of Spain's stillborn daughter is born as a son, but you can't have everything. So your idea is definitely more realistic.

If Max had daughters with Bianca, he'll likely marry one of them to Sigismund the Old.

Sounds about right. What happens to Bona then? Her mom tried to get her married to whichever grandson would likely succeed Fernando in history, and when that didn't work, the pope offered her around like a bong at a frat party (the duke of Savoy, a Medici boy (can't remember if it was the duke of Urbino or Nemours) and her cousins, the duke of Calabria and Massimiliano Sforza were all tried). Third wife to Louis XII?
 
Thing is, Fernando doesn't have to live longer than OTL, Max can also die sooner. He was rather sickish in the 1510s IIRC, they offered a Jagiellon princess for him as a third wife after Bianca died (I think it was Sigmund the Old's youngest sister) but he refused citing health reasons.



Makes sense. I still like my idea of Mary or Katherine Tudor for Karl V and either Joao III of Portugal, or a surviving Miguel de la Paz or Juan of Spain's stillborn daughter is born as a son, but you can't have everything. So your idea is definitely more realistic.



Sounds about right. What happens to Bona then? Her mom tried to get her married to whichever grandson would likely succeed Fernando in history, and when that didn't work, the pope offered her around like a bong at a frat party (the duke of Savoy, a Medici boy (can't remember if it was the duke of Urbino or Nemours) and her cousins, the duke of Calabria and Massimiliano Sforza were all tried). Third wife to Louis XII?
I think here Holy Roman Emperor Friedrich will be interested in a wedding between Bona and Massimiliano Sforza, who are both his relatives, and put them together as rulers of Milan.
Third wife for Louis if Max and Bianca had two daughters is Katherine of Aragon
 
I think here Holy Roman Emperor Friedrich will be interested in a wedding between Bona and Massimiliano Sforza, who are both his relatives, and put them together as rulers of Milan.
Third wife for Louis if Max and Bianca had two daughters is Katherine of Aragon

Where would the other daughter go? One marries Henry VIII I'm assuming (instead of Katherine - who might end up as queen of England and France (first Henry VII then Louis XII)) and Bona's duchess of Milan.
 
Where would the other daughter go? One marries Henry VIII I'm assuming (instead of Katherine - who might end up as queen of England and France (first Henry VII then Louis XII)) and Bona's duchess of Milan.
Jan was suggesting who Maximilian would have liked to marry a daughter from Bianca to Sigismund of Poland so Bianca's three children would be an Holy Roman Emperor, a Queen of England and a Queen of Poland
 
So it goes like this?

-Friedrich, Holy Roman Emperor b 1495 m Anne of Hungary and Bohemia b 1503
-Bianca of Austria b 1496 m Sigismund I the Old of Poland b 1467
-Maria of Austria b 1498 m Henry VIII of England b 1491
 
So it goes like this?

-Friedrich, Holy Roman Emperor b 1495 m Anne of Hungary and Bohemia b 1503
-Bianca of Austria b 1496 m Sigismund I the Old of Poland b 1467
-Maria of Austria b 1498 m Henry VIII of England b 1491

I think Bianca and Maria's marriages might be reversed, Henry VII might feel with Maria they'd would have to wait too long for her to get to childbearing age (Eleonore of Burgundy would be a year younger than her, and she was rejected by Henry VII/VIII for similar reasons). Bianca would at least be able to marry in 1509, while Sigmund only married his first wife in 1512 (when Maria would be 14yo).
 
Okay, that works. Bianca of Austria, queen of England has a nice ring to it.

Now I'm gonna write a family three, because why not?

Friedrich, Holy Roman Emperor m Anne of Hungary and Bohemia

-Bianca of Austria b 1521 m Francis II of France b 1518

-Maximilian, Holy Roman Emperor and King of Hungary and Bohemia b 1523

-Stillborn son b 1526

-Anne of Austria b 1529 m King of Spain

-Friedrich of Austria b 1531 m ???

-Elizabeth of Austria b 1532 m ???

-Leopold of Austria b 1535, bishop of *insert place here*



Bianca of Austria b 1496 m Henry VIII of England b 1491

-Elizabeth Tudor b 1514

-Edward VI of England b 1517

-Beatrice Tudor b 1520

-Henry Tudor b 1523 d 1524

-Arthur Tudor b 1526

-Bianca Tudor b 1530 d 1535
 
I think Bianca and Maria's marriages might be reversed, Henry VII might feel with Maria they'd would have to wait too long for her to get to childbearing age (Eleonore of Burgundy would be a year younger than her, and she was rejected by Henry VII/VIII for similar reasons). Bianca would at least be able to marry in 1509, while Sigmund only married his first wife in 1512 (when Maria would be 14yo).
Still better if Bianca is the eldest, then Friedrich and I will call the second daughter Eleanor (after Maximilian's mother), Beatrice (after the Duchesses of Milan), Anne (for Bianca's sister) or Elisabeth/Isabella (for Bianca's sister-in-law) instead of Maria (like Maximilian's first wife plus the fact who the name of the Virgin is not appropiate for a queen of Poland)
 
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Beatrice of Austria has a nice ring to it and it's one of a kind, given that the hapsburgs did not name their daughters that at that time.
 
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