The Second World War, 1939-1977: An Alternate History of WW2

[Egbert]

Comments are greatly appreciated.

The Volkshalle (People's Hall) and Reichstag (Parliament) buildings in Germania, c. 1956.

From "The Second World War: 1939-1977", by Michael Fairfield

"During the “white peace” period, Germany was allowed to pursue its own designs in Europe. Most horrific was the Holocaust, the targeted extermination of nearly nine million Jews, which was pursued with a fanatical dedication. Almost sixteen million non-Jewish enemies of the state were exterminated as well. Most commonly, this was carried out through forced labor, first on the Atlantic Wall defenses and later during the construction of Germania and the other “führer cities”. This period also saw the near-complete depopulation of Poland as its population was exterminated or relocated for forced labor.

Eliminating dissent was one of Germany’s immediate peacetime objectives. Troublesome neighborhoods in Berlin were cleared out and bulldozed during Germania’s construction. The Heer was dismantled and integrated into the Waffen-SS, a move that marginalized any opposition within the military. The Luftwaffe under Hermann Goring was also purged of dissenting staff. The only significant opposition remaining was contained in the Kriegsmarine, which was spared from the ideological purification the other branches were subjected to.

By 1949, Hitler was bedridden and reduced to a rarely-seen figurehead. Factions had coalesced around Armaments and Production Minister Albert Speer, Minister of Propaganda Joseph Goebbels, and SS leader Heinrich Himmler, and factional violence reached levels unprecedented since the Reich’s creation. Ultimately, by the time of Hitler’s 1951 death, Himmler’s faction had discredited Speer and Goebbels, and secured Himmler’s position as the second Fuhrer of the German Reich. However, as Himmler’s victory seemed imminent, the true second ruler of Germany emerged.

Reinhard Heydrich, the man with the iron heart."

 

[docfl]

Thread Mark's? Thanks

 

[Egbert]

Thread Mark's? Thanks

Good idea, I'll do that.

 

[Tanner151]

Wonder if this means Himmler is gonna be marginalized by Heydrich or if Himmler suffers “an unfortunate accident” and Heydrich comes to power. Hmm. With Himmler in charge rather than Speer that is definitely gonna marginalize traditional German militancy and replace it with SS fanaticism with a coating of racial nonsense.

A Himmler-led Germany is gonna have a harder time rebuilding/advancing, especially repairing international relations than a Speer-led Germany.

With the Heer dismantled and the Luftwaffe purged, I’d imagine the traditional military salute is replaced with the Nazi salute except in the Kriegsmarine.

 

[Eagle fox]

Damn Heydrich becoming the next führer would be nightmare.

 

[BlackDragon98]

I foresee Himmler suffering a unfortunate accident aboard an aircraft.
By integrating the Heer into the SS, Germany's military just got a ton of racial nonsense, bureaucratic stupidity, and lost most of it's good generals.
The fall of the Reich is imminent.

 

[Egbert]

Wonder if this means Himmler is gonna be marginalized by Heydrich or if Himmler suffers “an unfortunate accident” and Heydrich comes to power. Hmm. With Himmler in charge rather than Speer that is definitely gonna marginalize traditional German militancy and replace it with SS fanaticism with a coating of racial nonsense.

A Himmler-led Germany is gonna have a harder time rebuilding/advancing, especially repairing international relations than a Speer-led Germany.

With the Heer dismantled and the Luftwaffe purged, I’d imagine the traditional military salute is replaced with the Nazi salute except in the Kriegsmarine.

Most likely marginalized. I imagine trapping suspected unreliables in empty titles will become something common, like what happened to Wilhelm Canaris. The Allies provided some clandestine support for Speer, but it wasn't much and they were limited. The Kriegsmarine will retain most of their traditions, as OTL.

Damn Heydrich becoming the next führer would be nightmare.

Considering how vicious and tyrannical he was OTL, his regime will undoubtedly surpass Hitler's in body count alone, for one.

I foresee Himmler suffering a unfortunate accident aboard an aircraft.
By integrating the Heer into the SS, Germany's military just got a ton of racial nonsense, bureaucratic stupidity, and lost most of it's good generals.
The fall of the Reich is imminent.

Had they kept them separate, retained some of their competent leadership, a permanent "cold peace" may have been possible.

Too late.

 

[Prince Daemon Targaryen]

I'm envisioning a Heydrich government with Kaltenbrunner in charge of the SS and Jochen Pieper heading the Waffen SS

 

[Virginia Liberal]

For a war with America the Kriegsmarine is gonna have to get a much bigger budget how this happens and it remains Nazi lite is a question. You want big H class battleships and carriers start towing the party line seems more likely.

 

[Egbert]

I'm envisioning a Heydrich government with Kaltenbrunner in charge of the SS and Jochen Pieper heading the Waffen SS

Kaltenbrunner running the SS seems very likely. Not sure about Peiper, though - he was loyal to Himmler, which would make him suspect to Heydrich.

For a war with America the Kriegsmarine is gonna have to get a much bigger budget how this happens and it remains Nazi lite is a question. You want big H class battleships and carriers start towing the party line seems more likely.

Development of the Kriegsmarine is ongoing during the 50s, guided by something similar to Plan Z. Keeping the Kriegsmarine in line will be a struggle, and it will rapidly turn into a Red Army in the 40s situation - getting decapitated before it gets too competent.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Virginia Liberal]

So it will get its ass handed to it by the USN when the Atlantic Wat begins cause all the senior officers will be party hacks

 

[Egbert]

So it will get its ass handed to it by the USN when the Atlantic Wat begins cause all the senior officers will be party hacks

Exactly.

 

[Pedersen]

Well, typically Heydrich is portrayed as a brutal, overconfident and arrogant nazi, who loves to lead from the front and exterminate anyone who isn't a loyal German. Looking forward to seeing what could go wrong for the Reich, when it is headed by a man, who is so much of a gambler, that even Hitler derided him for taking idiotic risks.

 

[BlackDragon98]

Well, typically Heydrich is portrayed as a brutal, overconfident and arrogant nazi, who loves to lead from the front and exterminate anyone who isn't a loyal German. Looking forward to seeing what could go wrong for the Reich, when it is headed by a man, who is so much of a gambler, that even Hitler derided him for taking idiotic risks.

The biggest gamble Heydrich took cost him the most.
Should have brought some security to BohemMorav.

 

[Egbert]

Comments are greatly appreciated.

Rendering of Thomas P. Stafford setting foot on the Moon, 1968.

From "The Second World War: 1939-1977", by Michael Fairfield

"As the 1950s progressed and the Axis nations enjoyed peacetime prosperity, the feasibility of land warfare in Europe became impossible. Germany and Soviet Union fielded close to 900 divisions combined, the latter of which were being mechanized at a furious rate. The trade of Soviet Jews for German industrial equipment unfortunately proved overwhelmingly beneficial to the USSR’s armed forces. These difficulties becoming apparent marked the first shifts toward the isolation and containment strategies practiced during the “white peace” period.

Under President Farley, the Office of Strategic Services had been reorganized into the External Intelligence Office, and were committed to undermining the Axis at any cost. The overthrow of Argentine dictator Juan Peron, who up to that point had been sympathetic to Germany and Italy, and his assassination in Venezuela, was masterminded by the EIO. EIO agents also assisted in dismantling various fascist and communist parties across South America, especially in Brazil, carrying out as many as a dozen assassinations and kidnappings. These actions laid the groundwork for Allied interventions during the war and beyond.

Another important Allied focus was ensuring a technological edge over the Axis. Germany and the Soviet Union invested considerably in science and education, although under Heydrich and Molotov these programs were largely eliminated. Heydrich especially distrusted physics as a “Jewish science” and had prominent physicists executed, a move that crippled Germany’s nuclear program. The Soviet Union would not detonate an atomic bomb until 1955, by which point the United States’s arsenal outmatched theirs considerably. The United States, freed from ideological or budgetary concerns, would merge the short-lived National Aerospace Administration (formed 1956) and Office of Scientific Research and Development into the National Scientific and Technological Development Agency. The organization’s centralization and near-limitless funding would bear bountiful harvest.

The brief Soviet-American “aerospace race” has been covered in considerable detail elsewhere, however a brief summary will be provided for completeness purposes. The 1955 launch of the Explorer I satellite alarmed the Soviet Union, who launched their own Sputnik satellite one year later, followed by the first animal in space, the dog Novator. In 1960 the Soviet Luna-2 mission photographed the far side of the Moon for the first time. Finally, the American astronaut Alan Sheperd became the first man in space in January 1961.

The first man on the Moon, American Thomas P. Stafford, would set foot on the Lunar surface on June 15, 1968."

 

[Egbert]

Well, typically Heydrich is portrayed as a brutal, overconfident and arrogant nazi, who loves to lead from the front and exterminate anyone who isn't a loyal German. Looking forward to seeing what could go wrong for the Reich, when it is headed by a man, who is so much of a gambler, that even Hitler derided him for taking idiotic risks.

He was certainly all of those things. But when he was RSHA chief he had to keep them under control to a degree. As fuhrer he'll still have to play power games, but he'll be allowed free reign to implement his horrific ideas. His anti-science policies will have massive effects later on.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Egbert]

Cuban revolutionary outfit, c. 1953.

26 May 1953
Guantanamo Bay, Federal District
United States of America

Michael King had been a believer, once. Attended Catholic school, considered entering the ministry. But he’d made the mistake of renouncing the resurrection. That and those pigheaded backwards goddamned cops… it’s enough to shake a man’s faith. He’d been a believer once. But not now.

His article was half-finished. It needed tightening, more excitement, stronger language. His sympathies lied with the rebels, but the editor wouldn’t cotton to that. Leftist sympathies were a good way to get blacklisted.

A knock on the door. His interviewee.

He was well-dressed, a tailored three-piece, but harried. The Marines outside tended not to treat Latinos with overmuch respect.

“I understand you’re an economist, and you’re sympathetic to the rebels. Tell me, what led you here?” King started with.

The guest sat down. “A strong sense for justice, I suppose. I’ve been all across the world, seeing these horrid things being perpetrated, but never intervening. This is me making right with that.”

“And you support the explicitly communist faction, or the moderates?” King said.

“Americans are overestimating the influence of the Marxist clique within the movement. The moderates represent the overwhelming majority.” He stressed the word “overwhelming”.

“How do you respond to rumors of covert Soviet aid?” King asked.

“Nonsense. The Soviet regime is nothing more than fascism with a red coat of paint. We would sooner accept aid from America than the Soviet Union.”

They continued on for some time, until reefs of pink showed over the water and the sun fell into the horizon. His guest picked up his briefcase and seemed ready to depart. “Hold on a moment. Do you want me to credit you under your pseudonym?”

“I suppose not. My real name will do.

“Ernesto Guevara.”

* * *

Thoughts?

 

[Eagle fox]

Ahhh Yes the cuban revolution. This is getting interesting. Oh yeah and also what happen to the Vietminh rebels?

 

[Egbert]

Ahhh Yes the cuban revolution. This is getting interesting. Oh yeah and also what happen to the Vietminh rebels?

My Vietnamese history is a little shaky. I imagine that with the US focused entirely on the Pacific, the Viet Mihn would have more support, and Vietnam would eventually be united as a democratic-leftist state with US backing. If this doesn't make sense, let me know, since "What happened to ____" questions aren't really my strong suit.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Egbert]

Comments?

* * *

The Military-Industrial Concert
Taken from “The Arms War and the Space Race”
By Alexander Liu
© 1994 Transworld Publishers, Shanghai

America and her sister Allied nations, China no longer least among them, had approached the aim of an egalitarian, technocratic society with President Roosevelt’s New Deal policies. The socioeconomic result was state syndicalism, in which corporate interests were subordinate to government need but both could prosper. However, this military-industrial concert was reliant on a number of factors, most importantly a large military and an ongoing arms buildup. The threat of war with the Axis powers provided ample need for both. The resulting situation was one in which corporations benefited from a war which was in their interest to prevent.

In the words of President Kennedy [1], if major corporations could be kept “fat and happy” with government subsidies, unemployment would be kept permanently low and corporate-funded infrastructure development would continue unabated. A number of public intellectuals denounced the corporatocracy they claimed the United States was devolving into, especially former advisor to President Roosevelt Rexford Tugwell. The modern communocapitalist [2] movement traces its roots to the anti-corporate, anti-government sentiment of this period. The unrestrained growth of the military-industrial concert and failure to discontinue the government expansion beginning in the New Deal era can be blamed for much of the unrest that plagues the United States today.

* * *

America in the Atlantic
Taken from “The Great Blue: A Maritime History of the Atlantic”
By Allison Fisher
© 2000 Ableton Books, Washington

St. Pierre and Miquelon would be the last islands America gained. But unlike the others discussed here, they weren’t conquered: in fact, they asked to join the United States. The islands were nominally French territory, but after the surrender by the French government to Nazi Germany, they were practically independent. Thus, they requested American occupation rather than joining the Vichy collaborators. As an unincorporated US territory the President was allowed to appoint Prefects, with the caveat of the Free French having to approve the appointee. French Guiana and Dutch Suriname were put in similar situations with similar outcomes. Excepting Kamchatka, these islands and bits of colonial territory would be the exit performance of the American Empire.

* * *

Taken from “Steady, the Buffs: Britain in the Second World War”
By Aron Wright
© 1999 PINK Press, London

The years between the Battle of Britain and Operation Arminius were volatile ones. A malaise infiltrated the nation, one that grew worse as the Empire slipped into the night and Britain was once again bottled into her islands. The constant fact of strikes, endless war propaganda, looking across the Channel at the darkness in Europe. The surreality weighed upon the nation. Working-class Britons carried out their lives against the grey backdrop of an aborted war.

And on May 10, 1969, the war was reborn.

* * *

[1] Joseph Kennedy.

[2] *libertarians.