The Second World War, 1939-1977: An Alternate History of WW2

Introduction
Originating from some messing around re: how long WW2 could possibly be. Comments?
rOz7SZx.jpg

A Free German exile unit during the Fall of Germania, c. 1975.

Introduction to "The Second World War: 1939-1977", by Michael Fairfield

"Before describing the conflict itself, it is necessary to examine the circumstances leading to the three-decade struggle between democracy and fascism.

By 1939, the Nazi government had solidified control over Germany, and entered a tenuous alliance with the Soviet Union. Both states had tremendous industrial capacity and aggressive foreign policy. But, most importantly, both were hostile to the liberal Western democracies. On September 1, 1939, German Wehrmacht troops entered Poland, initiating the European portion of the Second World War. Soviet Red Army troops entered shortly after, and within four weeks, the nation of Poland ceased to exist. Its Western and Eastern provinces were respectively annexed to Germany and Russia.

Franco-British fears were seemingly justified. Though they failed to prevent the Rhineland debacle, a violation as flagrant as this could not stand. The decision to bomb Soviet oil reserves, then, seemed logical. Western Air Plan 106 was executed on April 1, 1940. Four squadrons of Bristol Blenheims launched from RAF Habbaniya conducted the night raid on state-operated refineries in the Baku region.

Though the actual damage was minimal, the political consequences were disastrous. On April 2, the Soviet Union officially declared war on Britain, prompting riots from national communist parties. France, which had up to then been in secret peace negotiations with Russia, was suddenly rebuffed. The Soviet Union, it seemed, had been driven into the German orbit.

If the invasion of Poland was an embarrassment for the Allies, the Fall of France was devastating. Massed armor and mobile troops rampaged through the Low Countries before breaking through the Ardennes into Central France, within six weeks having captured Paris and carved the Third Republic in two. Northern France and the Atlantic coast were absorbed into the Reich proper, Medditeranean France reorganized into a German dependency.

Although the Reich’s European war of conquest had concluded, the Second World War had just begun."

The header image is by Mathaeus Graef, fora HOI4 mod called The New Order.
 
Yeah...the logistics of a war going nearly four decades and the impact on the world & national economics would have to be planned out well in such a timeline. Hell, how could a modern war drag on like that?
 
Seems like a WW2 with 1984 elements thrown in there.
Perpetual war would be interesting, though it would mean that nukes were never made because those things will end wars very quickly.
 
How Axis can even last to 1970's. Even OTL Axis were really lucky to last as long as they did. What did happen with Finland? Was there ever Winter War?
 
Wait, how the hell does World War Two drag on into the 70s?
I'm trying not to give too much away, but there won't be a land war in Europe until the late 50s-early 60s. The US will, for a time, be very busy in Japan (later China), and Britain will mostly work to contain Soviet expansion into the Middle East/Asia.

Maybe multiple phases, an armistice/Cold War in the middle or so.
Pretty close, especially with the multiple phases. Cold War "containment" doctrines will end up developing a lot earlier in this TL.
 
Yeah...the logistics of a war going nearly four decades and the impact on the world & national economics would have to be planned out well in such a timeline. Hell, how could a modern war drag on like that?
Economics and logistics are going to be the most challenging parts of this timeline, to be honest. The stresses of the actual European war will force both Britain and the US to move toward a mixed, heavily planned war economy. I imagine India and China being built up as "arsenals of democracy", eventually contributing significant numbers of troops to the European war.

How Axis can even last to 1970's. Even OTL Axis were really lucky to last as long as they did. What did happen with Finland? Was there ever Winter War?
A smartly negotiated ceasefire allows them to do quite well from 1943 to about 1955. Once the war starts, things get bad. Winter War ended before the POD.

Thanks for all the feedback!
 
Economics and logistics are going to be the most challenging parts of this timeline, to be honest. The stresses of the actual European war will force both Britain and the US to move toward a mixed, heavily planned war economy. I imagine India and China being built up as "arsenals of democracy", eventually contributing significant numbers of troops to the European war.


A smartly negotiated ceasefire allows them to do quite well from 1943 to about 1955. Once the war starts, things get bad. Winter War ended before the POD.

Thanks for all the feedback!
Only way get ceasefire would be that Germans win in Stalingrad and defeat Soviets and Allies notice that they can't invade Europe. Perhaps betterly built Atlantic Wall.
 
Economics and logistics are going to be the most challenging parts of this timeline, to be honest. The stresses of the actual European war will force both Britain and the US to move toward a mixed, heavily planned war economy. I imagine India and China being built up as "arsenals of democracy", eventually contributing significant numbers of troops to the European war.


A smartly negotiated ceasefire allows them to do quite well from 1943 to about 1955. Once the war starts, things get bad. Winter War ended before the POD.

Thanks for all the feedback!
How does Nazi Germany get the materials and cash to keep rearming?
OTL they were running out of foreign reserves in 1939 and their oil is still from Romania, who is not pro-Axis until after the Vienna award.
Unless...
 
I wonder what will happen to the Soviets in TTL. I assume Barbarosa will be averted or postponed at least.
The importance of Soviet oil and agriculture led to Barbarossa getting scrapped.

Only way get ceasefire would be that Germans win in Stalingrad and defeat Soviets and Allies notice that they can't invade Europe. Perhaps betterly built Atlantic Wall.
The ceasefire was in exchange for captured Allied pilots. The Germans used the opportunity to develop massive anti-air defenses and civil defense programs. Once Allied bombings resumed, they stalemated quickly. Combined German and Soviet military strength made an invasion of Europe very daunting until Allied forces were up to par.

How does Nazi Germany get the materials and cash to keep rearming?
OTL they were running out of foreign reserves in 1939 and their oil is still from Romania, who is not pro-Axis until after the Vienna award.
Unless...
Yep, the SS will be running on Soviet oil right up to '77.

All of this feedback is greatly appreciated!
 
There is no Dunkirk evacuation Germany now has three hundred thousand plus bargaining chips against Britain then the US elections in November result in a lose for Roosevelt. The new President elect isn't will to back the allies but does act as a third party to negotiate an armistice with promises of full Germany withdrawal from the occupied western European countries once they have secured themselves from the Soviets. The Pacific occurs ending with the defeat of Japan but also quiet war ensues for the next few decade with the Commonwealth countries fighting and funding small wars in Africa, Asia & South America against Nazi backed forces.
 
Are the alliances going to remain constant or shift over time? The latter seems more likely to lead to a nearly 40-year state of war than the former.
At least Italy probably would stay out when Mussolini can't ally with Stalin due ideological reasons.
 
Not sure if this was inspired by it or not, but the premise here reminds me a lot of ETGalaxy’s Man-Made Hell, in which the Great War lasts 30 or so years. Love the concept and excited for more.
 
There is no Dunkirk evacuation Germany now has three hundred thousand plus bargaining chips against Britain then the US elections in November result in a lose for Roosevelt. The new President elect isn't will to back the allies but does act as a third party to negotiate an armistice with promises of full Germany withdrawal from the occupied western European countries once they have secured themselves from the Soviets. The Pacific occurs ending with the defeat of Japan but also quiet war ensues for the next few decade with the Commonwealth countries fighting and funding small wars in Africa, Asia & South America against Nazi backed forces.
That last part is right on the money. Japan is the first to fall, and the British combat fascist/communist uprisings throughout the still-colonial Third World.

Are the alliances going to remain constant or shift over time? The latter seems more likely to lead to a nearly 40-year state of war than the former.
The weaker Axis countries will attempt to do so. Unfortunately, massive retaliation from the Germans or Russians means that alliances are mostly static (with a few notable exceptions).
 
At least Italy probably would stay out when Mussolini can't ally with Stalin due ideological reasons.
Fear of German retaliation will keep them firmly in the Axis sphere, but Mussolini will resist Hitler's policies to a degree. They'll end up a lot better off than Germany (though that's not saying much).

Not sure if this was inspired by it or not, but the premise here reminds me a lot of ETGalaxy’s Man-Made Hell, in which the Great War lasts 30 or so years. Love the concept and excited for more.
Thanks, glad you like it!

The next chapter should be out tomorrow. Thanks for all the feedback!
 
Last edited:
Top